AnxietyRanger
Well-Known Member
what. the. fog. Something's not right.
This isn't any different to Model X or Model S, though (better, actually). It is a slow start, I don't know why anyone expected any different.
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what. the. fog. Something's not right.
Did you guys listen to the q&a?? Elon is now only confident of being as good as a human driver with the current hardware. He also mentioned very briefly about new hardware that they weren’t ready to discuss yet.....
Yeah I heard that. The real question in my mind though is if it’s just the computer holding things back and they are going to put a new better faster computer in to reach higher levels of safety or is there better sensor suite they planning to meet that safety. If it’s just a computer power issue and I get the upgrade, no worries. If they are adding a bunch of other stuff I will sigh once again just like I did when I got an AP1 car that was quickly superceded by AP2 (kinda), guess we’ll see. I wonder if the slow ramp up for M3 is related this new hardware, so that they don’t have to upgrade a couple hundred thousand cars instead of 30-40 thousand...
Yeah I heard that. The real question in my mind though is if it’s just the computer holding things back and they are going to put a new better faster computer in to reach higher levels of safety or is there better sensor suite they planning to meet that safety. If it’s just a computer power issue and I get the upgrade, no worries. If they are adding a bunch of other stuff I will sigh once again just like I did when I got an AP1 car that was quickly superceded by AP2 (kinda), guess we’ll see. I wonder if the slow ramp up for M3 is related this new hardware, so that they don’t have to upgrade a couple hundred thousand cars instead of 30-40 thousand...
But the thing is, there is no end. I think myself like @oktane etc. are just telling it like we feel. Saying something else would be holding back how we feel. I'm happy that you are exhilarated, I guess the point is, we're not. About this particular topic anyway.
I do believe that AP1 and AP2 significantly improve safety of normal driving when used reasonably. If a miscalculation occurred with AP2 cars, it may end up being in the quality of radar or a camera being the issue... which is reflected in changes between 2.0 and 2.5,... I think the nanny cam is a calculation that autonomous driving regulations will likely require certain driver monitoring to be legally allowed to operate and also perhaps to check for kids left in the car.... I wouldn't be surprised if they rip out the rearview mirror stack and replace it during the ap2.o complimentary upgrade.The thing I find amusing is, when asked why AP1/AP2 were released arguably prematurely, Elon's response was that safety benefits are not worth delaying / sacrificing.
It will be intriguing to see how that applies to whatever "AP3" will be in terms of whether or not its safety improvements can be realized by AP2 owners.
I do believe that AP1 and AP2 significantly improve safety of normal driving when used reasonably. If a miscalculation occurred with AP2 cars, it may end up being in the quality of radar or a camera being the issue... which is reflected in changes between 2.0 and 2.5,... I think the nanny cam is a calculation that autonomous driving regulations will likely require certain driver monitoring to be legally allowed to operate and also perhaps to check for kids left in the car.... I wouldn't be surprised if they rip out the rearview mirror stack and replace it during the ap2.o complimentary upgrade.
I don't see it as a logical fallacy. The point about AP1 and AP2 is that having it is better than not having it, not that there will not be a better version in the future. Technology will always improve, so it's a given that the future version of the system will be better in some way.I completely agree with AP1 and AP2 increasing safety -- one of the key reasons I chose this Tesla. I'm just saying, if whatever AP"3" enhanced abilities result in more effective anti-collision or more correct unsupervised Autosteer operation, by the same argument, they should make that "available" wherever a retrofit is feasible. Not just for certain grandfathered users who paid extra, or if they could come up with a less-ideal FSD equivalent for legacy hardware. It's a logical fallacy to state that the computer is easily retrofitted at the same time as implying that the current hardware isn't as capable as newer hardware in terms of ratio to human safety....
Absolutely correct as usual. I am only stating what I feel without any sugar coating, which seems to rub people the wrong way. It is not meant to offend anyone, but I don’t see why I should hold back. I’m not here to protect Tesla from the consequences of their poor business ethics.
I don't see it as a logical fallacy. The point about AP1 and AP2 is that having it is better than not having it, not that there will not be a better version in the future. Technology will always improve, so it's a given that the future version of the system will be better in some way.
I mentioned this elsewhere, Tesla's retrofit promise does not mean installing the latest and greatest system into those cars, only what is necessary to achieve the goal. And if a retrofit is not necessary, Tesla won't even retrofit.
Musk noted that he still definitely believes Tesla is able to “achieve full autonomy with the current hardware,” but also cautioned that the question will be what qualifies as full autonomy in the eyes of regulators and what is eventually legalized for use on roads. Musk said that current Tesla vehicle computer and sensor hardware would allow for “roughly human-level autonomy,” but also noted that regulators might require a higher level, with potentially systems needing many multiples of human efficacy to be deemed legal to operate.
“We’ll have more to say on the hardware front soon, we’re just not ready to say that now,” Musk said. “But for customers that have purchased the full autonomy option, if it does turn out that it requires computer upgrade for full autonomy, we will replace their computer — it’s just a matter of unplug the old computer, plug the new one in.”
Yeah, i disagree with characterizing it as "poor business ethics"
I don't see him as someone trying to protect financial results quarters with sneaky promises
I certainly don't see him as someone making a promise he doesn't intend to deliver.
...
I mentioned this elsewhere, Tesla's retrofit promise does not mean installing the latest and greatest system into those cars, only what is necessary to achieve the goal. And if a retrofit is not necessary, Tesla won't even retrofit.
“But for customers that have purchased the full autonomy option, if it does turn out that it requires computer upgrade for full autonomy, we will replace their computer — it’s just a matter of unplug the old computer, plug the new one in
Tesla could upgrade customer computers to meet self-driving requirements
I think we knew / understood all along they’d upgrade the ape if you prepaid for FSD. The troubling part is now the target is “as safe” as a human, and not 2x as safe a a human or even super human....
buckle up folks it’s going to be a bumpy ride for AP2 and 2.5.