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Discussion in 'Model 3: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by kmtl, May 20, 2018.
Does the configurator say anything about better brakes for the performance version?
Sadly no... this is my biggest concern actually. Adding likely ~200hp and 200-300lbs of mass will absolutely require better brakes than the current Model 3's. I'm cautiously optimistic though and ordered anyways.
Ordered! Ran into the error mentioned at the beginning of the thread on my first try, but after refreshing the page and re-entering my credit card details, it went through.
I just configured my Performance Model 3.
I think I'm crying...…..
I received my email today at 6:45 PM.
Just ordered AWD, 3/31 line reservation, east coast. Received email.
why would adding hp require better brakes? It's not like you're putting significant power to the wheels and braking at the same time
And short of a race track a lot better way to enhance actual real life performance would be to offer performance tires, not performance brakes.
If that were the case why do Ferrari's, Porsche's, etc all have massive high performance brakes? Kinetic energy increases as a squared function of speed (i.e. a car moving 40mph has 4x the energy as a car moving 20mph). You NEED high power brakes as you increase power and make cars faster. You don't see Honda Civic sized brakes on any high performance cars for a reason.
The performance models already come with performance tires.
For Porsches it's because owners actually do drive them on tracks.
For Ferraris it's mainly marketing.
"big" brakes are useless in real life (non track) use.
Porsche sells a $10,000+ brake upgrade kit.
In a normal 60-0 panic stop guess how much it reduces the cars stopping distance?
The brakes don't stop the car- the tires do.
The only place that $10,000+ brake kit does anything besides look cool is heavy track use, not "real world" driving.
Ditto literally every single "big brake" kit on earth.
This is complete nonsense.
A 200 hp car going 100 mph and an otherwise identical 1000 hp car going 100 mph both will stop in exactly the same distance when you slam on the same set of brakes (assuming all else like tires and road surface are equal)
The cars "power" will impact how quickly it accelerates to 100 mph, but it is utterly irrelevant to braking.
Unless you meant "for when you're going over 140 and less than 155" since that's the only actual difference in ability to go fast between the two models... and outside of a track you're not gonna be doing that much (let alone needing to panic stop from that speed).
Does it? I didn't see that mentioned- what tires specifically? (and if you opt for smaller than 20s do you still get performance tires?)
You're getting a little too upset and not understanding. A car with 1000hp is going to be spending much more time at higher speeds than a car with 200hp. Of course they will both stop in the same distance at 100mph, that's not what we're talking about. As power increases so does average speed, and therefore much more energy needs to be dissipated via braking. If you don't believe me go put Kia brakes on a Bugatti with high performance tires and see how well that works out for you.
As for the rest of what you said, I don't have time to argue about opinions with strangers on the internet. And the performance models come with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires from the factory, same as always.
Unless there is a assumption that high power cars will likely be driven at higher speeds, yes... But typical street driving, especially in bay area, where I am, speeds do not usually exceed much more than highway speeds. So I agree. No need for better brakes with higher performance.
Agreed, but as I plan on tracking my "performance" car, I highly prefer quality brakes. I would never buy a performance car just to drive around in city traffic, but some people buy sports cars for more superficial reasons unfortunately.
I mean... for 99.9% of them? No, they really won't.
Very very very few street cars are used on tracks (and even fewer on non-drag strip tracks) compared to the total # of cars.
In normal real-world driving a dude in accord is just as likely as a dude in a Bugati to be speeding, he just took slightly longer to get there.
Again- it really doesn't in real life. It just means you get TO that speed slightly quicker.
Which was the thing I specifically mentioned I was discussing, and specifically said "other than on a race track"
And yet somehow I'm the one who is "not understanding"?
Assuming both sets can engage ABS? It'll work out exactly as well as the original brakes.
That's the point. The brakes don't stop the car, the tires do.
That's why putting that $10,000 brake upgrade on a porsche does literally nothing to stop the car any shorter in real-life driving.
could've fooled me
Most I've what I've said isn't opinion though- it's physics.
Bigger brakes don't stop the car any shorter in normal real-world use.
They don't stop them any shorter on a track either- they only thing they do there is resist fade better (meaning it'll stop them in the same distance under greater amounts of repeated rapid abuse- they'll still never stop any shorter than the stock brakes did the first time)
If you'd prefer these facts from a guy who has literally written books and taught SAE master classes on brake system design instead of a 'stranger on the internet' though I HIGHLY recommend this article-
GRM Pulp Friction
It goes into a bit of math and detail on what each part of the braking system does and does not do for you- and why ultimately if you want the car to stop shorter, a brake upgrade isn't the way to do it.
The 20s currently sold separately for the model 3 do come with PS4s, but none of the "factory" wheels do... it's possible they're just going to use that exact wheel/tire set for P models, but I haven't seen anything official to confirm. Have you?
More significantly I haven't seen anything to suggest if you take the P with 19 or 18 inch wheels (because you'd prefer a bit more sidewall with your tires), a choice that HAS been confirmed to exist in the configurator for the P model, that you get anything other than the mediocre all-season tires the 18s or 19s come with on other models.
By all means if you have a Tesla source saying they offer performance tires from the factory at all on THOSE size rims I'd love to see it (because I'm currently planning to have to drop another grand on PS4s to replace those crap all-seasons)
I don't care about the other 99%. I track my performance cars, end of story. Have a good night.
And good for you!
But since you began by saying
It kind of makes sense someone would explain to you that more hp doesn't "absolutely require" any brake changes at all for that 99% you don't care about.... and in fact such an upgrade would do literally nothing for them except make the car even more expensive than it already is.
The fact you thought Ferraris got silly huge drilled rotors for "performance" reasons rather than marketing ones suggests this explanation was pretty necessary too... (go back and read that Pulp Friction article- it explains why drilled rotors are actually a bad idea in most cases- though slotted may be worthwhile for non-street use)
I can’t believe I was able to order dual motor tonight. I am a non owner line waiter in St. Louis. I was able to order about 2 hours ago. I was lax and there was about a 4.5 hour window when I was not hitting f5 all the time.
Can you have them extend your lease by a few more months? Just explain you're buying a 3. Seems like it should be a no-brainer for them.
I've been on a lot of car forums in my life, but this is the FIRST time I've seen people try to argue that you don't need better brakes on the performance version of a car.
With every other car it's EXPECTED unless the base car happened to have really good brakes.
Is it because they are tracked? Yep
Is it because of specmanship? Yep
Is it really going to impact day to day use on the street? Not a whole lot.
Personally I do think the performance version should have better braking. Where it's not just the brakes, but the combination of the brakes/tires/system. It should be similar in performance to an M3 if not better.
I probably won't get the P version because it's my understanding that it doesn't have anything that a person would expect to come with a performance model.
It doesn't have better suspension
It doesn't have better brakes
It doesn't have better seats
There isn't a whole lot that's added for over 20K more. That's a lot of dough to go a little quicker in a straight line. We also don't know it's track performance so it's hard to justify the extra money especially when the AWD non-performance one is plenty quick.
Exactly, thank you.
I suspect it's because Tesla's attract more techies than they do car enthusiasts. So people buy them to drive around town and think straight line power is God. Although, looking at said person above's post history, it seems like they just go around this forum trying to start arguments and post overly verbose, double spaced posts in response as some weird self-righteous ego trip.
Performance cars need performance brakes. Just because their are groups of people that buy them and never track them doesn't mean that the rest of us shouldn't get what we pay for, and what Elon is apparently advertising with his tweets about track performance.
Did anyone order dual motor (not performance) with white interior?
Just wondering if they allow that yet.
White is exclusive to performance version for now.