Has Anyone Classed their Tesla with National Auto Sport Assn?

[MoreAgain]

I'm trying to class my RWD Model 3 to participate in an upcoming Time Trial event with NASA. The classes are primarily based on Wt/HP ratios with adjustments for modifications. Based on the guidelines, my LR RWD would fall into Class 5 with a ratio of 14.13. NASA ST/TT Car Classification Form.

But, that is based on an average HP of 283, (Tesla Model 3 - Wikipedia) which has to be verified with Dyno results. It is hard to know for sure as the guidelines for determining average HP are fairly complex.

"Avg HP = Average HP calculated and used in the Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio The following sixteen (16) data points will be obtained from the Dyno’s 50 RPM data export numeric RPM/HP table printout: Horsepower at: 250 rpm, 500 rpm, 750 rpm, 1000 rpm, 1250 rpm, 1500 rpm, 1750 rpm, 2000 rpm greater than Max HP rpm Horsepower at: 250 rpm, 500 rpm, 750 rpm, 1000 rpm, 1250 rpm, 1500 rpm, 1750 rpm, 2000 rpm less than Max HP rpm (If any of the above data points at higher RPM than Max HP RPM do not exist due to redline, then those potential data points will not be used in the calculation of Avg HP.) For vehicles with a redline greater than 7000 rpm: The seven (7) highest data points of the above sixteen (16) will be used in the calculation below: Avg HP = (Max HP +(sum of the seven highest data points)) divided by 8."

Before I go too much further with this, I'm wondering if anyone has already gone through the process of getting their Tesla officially classed. Also, I've read through the rules and don't see anything that specifically disqualifies an EV, but there are a lot of details that I may be overlooking.

Thanks for any help!

 

[AltLogic]

Edit: I just read section 18.3 of the CCR’s. It might be more difficult than I first thought. It looks like it is possible.

I think NASA has a maximum published factory horsepower limit for TT5. The EPA filing hp is under that limit but the car magazines publish a number above the limit. I warned Greg last spring that he should prepare to see someone run one in TT5. It will be hard to explain why your 100% stock vehicle puts out much more to the wheels on the Dyno than Tesla claimed. ...Edited out two sentences... A fellow competitor might protest you based on the magazine numbers too.

The average horsepower is easy to figure out once you have your Dyno sheet with the required list of horsepower at the specified intervals.

 

[MoreAgain]

Edit: I just read section 18.3 of the CCR’s.
I think NASA has a maximum published factory horsepower limit for TT5.

Yeah, I saw that line about limiting hp at 264 for TT5. I dont think they were expecting any 4k lb entries though! I have an email out to Greg, but I guess I won't really know until getting it dyno'd. Thanks for the input!

 

[MoreAgain]

18.3 Permitted Fuel is the same reason that Cameron & MPP were disqualified from GTA, but it looks like it has been updated to indicate that you can run on electricity if you are cleared through the National Office in writing. Uggh.

 

[Lunares]

One thing you could do is see how cars in SCCA D street are classed for Time Trial. Then try to make an argument by similarity that you should be able to do the same thing with your LR RWD here.

 

[MoreAgain]

I heard back from Greg from NASA today. He indicated that current language in the rules specifically defines engine HP and displacement guidelines and that since, "...electric motors are not engines....the bad news is that you can't run in any of the numbered TT classes currently." So for now, he states that they are only, "permitting electric vehicles in both TTU and SU (our unlimited Time Trial and race classes)." He goes on to say that, "The good news is that NASA is moving to help lead the industry in determining the best way to have competition with mixed fields of cars with engines and electric motors."

I still plan to participate in their HPDE timed group, which runs in the same sessions with the TT participants, so at least I'll be able to compare results with others, but for now will not be able to officially place in the TT.

 

[stickman]

Just out of curiosity why do you want to run in a classed time trial event? I guess I don’t understand the purpose

 

[MoreAgain]

Just out of curiosity why do you want to run in a classed time trial event? I guess I don’t understand the purpose

To win, of course! The idea of a classed event is that the results should come down to driver skill, since you are competing against cars with roughly the same weight to HP ratio, with appropriate adjustments for modifications.

 

[stickman]

To win, of course! The idea of a classed event is that the results should come down to driver skill, since you are competing against cars with roughly the same weight to HP ratio, with appropriate adjustments for modifications.

Right on. Represent!
(If you can figure out how to get it classed)

 

[MasterC17]

I am also trying to get classed with NASA, may have to just run in TTU for this season.

 

[MoreAgain]

I am also trying to get classed with NASA, may have to just run in TTU for this season.

Yes, that's the only option for an EV currently. That's a tough class though, even for a P3D. As an example, Randy Pobst ran a 2:01.7 in a stock P3D at Buttonwillow during Tesla Corsa 3. He then estimated that with max upgrades he could run in the 1:55s. At the NASA event at Buttonwillow this month, the winner of the TTU class ran a 1:46.4!

My PB at Buttonwillow with my RWD Model 3 is 2:12.0, which would at least be competitive with many of the BMW M3s in the TT4 orTT5 classes.

http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/...ficial Results/April 7 - TT Final Results.pdf

 

[AltLogic]

MoreAgain, the link you posted is CCW. Is your 2:12 for the same layout and direction? In my opinion the Model 3 LR RWD would be a fast TT5 car built to the rules. If NASA wanted to be inclusive they should grant the LR RWD provisional TT4 status and see what happens.

 

[MasterC17]

Yes, that's the only option for an EV currently. That's a tough class though, even for a P3D. As an example, Randy Pobst ran a 2:01.7 in a stock P3D at Buttonwillow during Tesla Corsa 3. He then estimated that with max upgrades he could run in the 1:55s. At the NASA event at Buttonwillow this month, the winner of the TTU class ran a 1:46.4!

My PB at Buttonwillow with my RWD Model 3 is 2:12.0, which would at least be competitive with many of the BMW M3s in the TT4 orTT5 classes.

http://timingscoring.drivenasa.com/NASA_California-Southern_Region/2019 - Official Results/April 2019 - Buttonwillow Raceway Official Results/April 7 - TT Final Results.pdf

Yeah, a P3D certainly wouldn't be competitive in TTU but hey at least we can have fun and possibly grab some contingency's!

 

[MoreAgain]

MoreAgain, the link you posted is CCW. Is your 2:12 for the same layout and direction? If NASA wanted to be inclusive they should grant the LR RWD provisional TT4 status and see what happens.

Looks like they ran CW#13 on Saturday and CCW#1 on Sunday. I didn't notice that.
No, my time was set on CW#13, which cuts out the star mazda turn. So, based on their Saturday results, my 2:12 would be bringing up the rear of the TT groups, but in the center of the pack for the HPDE 3/4 groups. (All of the times are available through the RaceHero app.) I agree that the RWD should class as TT4 or 5, and the P3D would likely class as TT2. Hopefully they determine how to deal with EVs soon. Until then I plan to attend in their HPDE4 group (which beginning this year also qualifies for contingencies) to get more experience being on track with open passing rules.

 

[AltLogic]

NASA just posted an April ‘19 Rules Revision.

The first note is about EV’s. It looks like SU/TTU for 2019 and an expectation for official classing in 2020.

April '19 ST Rules Revision Highlights