Has anyone ever gotten Tesla Service to replace a battery due to degradation?

[ucmndd]

Sadly we have no idea how the owner treated their battery. And we have no idea if current battery performance is a hardship for the owner/driver.

Agreed, and I'm not suggesting we should lack compassion for people whose experiences with a product don't line up with expectations.

That said, how the owner treated their battery and whether or not the current performance they're experiencing is a hardship is not particularly relevant to the question being posed, which is whether or not the OP is entitled to a battery replacement based on their experience. The answer to that question is unequivocally "no", and they need to hear the hard truth that fighting with Tesla about this is going to get them absolutely nowhere.

 

[chr2]

Like this:
View attachment 751785
View attachment 751786

222x199/0.55= 80.3kWh remaining capacity.
Full pack when new 82.1, so some 2.2% degradation.

Thanks for your help on this! So is this the same view you have so helpfully posted? And can you help with the formula please? I see you have multiplied the Snitt value (is this "average" in English?) by the Beräknad value ("projected" in English?) ... and then divided that result by .55 - why .55, please? Where does this value come from?

Here are a couple shots that I think are the same as yours, yes? Nice choice in color on your M3, by the way!

A deep look into the Battery Management system shows that the BMS estimates the capacity to 80.4kWh.
The small difference comes from rounding errors like whole percent etc. and can be minimized by using high SOC during the collection of the data.

How did you obtain this deep look, please?

Using the exact same principle will show the approximate degradation and if there is a need to dig deeper.

View attachment 751787

 

[cwerdna]

I would like to see all EV companies put out a clear public info page that explained what conditions they used to determine a rated mile,

The EPA range ratings are dictated by someone running thru the EPA test cycles. See these:

The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates - Feature - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

Learn more about the The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates - Feature now. Find auto reviews and photos of the The Truth About EPA City / Highway MPG Estimates CARandDRIVER.com now.

web.archive.org

How Vehicles Are Tested

Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of...

www.fueleconomy.gov

Detailed Test Information - shows the test cycles
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA test procedure for EVs-PHEVs-11-14-2017.pdf - is a link from the above.

I can't speak to "rated mile". One can try to work backwards from the battery capacity (but sometimes the user accessible capacity is murky or not published), and the EPA range rating to determine the required efficiency (miles per kWh or Wh/mile).

and include a chart with energy used per mile at various speeds and conditions, along with info about how much energy things such as the heating and cooling used, and also the idle power usage (the base load from the computers).

That would be nice. FYI, only 1 out of 5 EPA test cycles has the heater on. Only 1 of the 5 EPA test cycles has the AC on.

 

[AAKEE]

Thanks for your help on this! So is this the same view you have so helpfully posted? And can you help with the formula please? I see you have multiplied the Snitt value (is this "average" in English?) by the Beräknad value ("projected" in English?) ... and then divided that result by .55 - why .55, please? Where does this value come from?

Here are a couple shots that I think are the same as yours, yes? Nice choice in color on your M3, by the way!


How did you obtain this deep look, please?

The .55 is the on screen SOC I had at that moment, 55%.

Use your charging level in absolute form (percent/100). Your pictures ”should” have been a bit wider to incorporate the SOC

318 x 209 / SOC = capacity in Wh.
Divide with 1000= kWh.

216x270/ SOC = also should make roughly the same number.

The ”Deep look” is done with some equipment(small cable harness, OBD2-Dingle) togheter with the fantastic software Scan My Tesla. Its a bit on the nerd side of a Tesla ownership.
Scan My Tesla shows the battery capacity direct, and the method above use the data to calculate backwards to find the capacity.
( The estimated range in the energy app/graph data comes from the *total capacity x SOC / average consumption so we can use it backwards to find capacity.)

If you remember the SOC from that time, whe can do some serious calculation

And, yes my first thought before reading the post was “Nice color on that car”

 

[AAKEE]

Actually, we can already tell from your 318wh/km x 209 km that you cannot have more than about 14% degradation, even if the SOC was 100% at that picture.
318x209= 66.4kWh. 66.4/77.8(the ”new value” spec)= 0.854, thats 85.4% remaining, which leave no more than 14.6% degradation.
Any lower SOC increases the capacity and reduces your degradation

 

[DOCAL]

That would be nice. FYI, only 1 out of 5 EPA test cycles has the heater on. Only 1 of the 5 EPA test cycles has the AC on.

Tesla used to have lots of info for the Roadster, the page is still there, but sadly the images aren't, and they're not on the wayback machine either. There used to be a great graph showing how much energy was used per mile across various speeds.

Roadster Efficiency and Range

EDIT: I think I found most of the graphs at EV Energy Consumption

 

[ucmndd]

Following. need to know the wordings to put in appt request , but maybe they'll run the test & turn around to say it's not degrading just to turn you away

There are no magic words.

Does your car, when charged to 100%, show an available range on the car’s display at least 30% lower than it did when new? If so, say that.

If not, there is no reason to request an appointment for this topic.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks for your help on this! So is this the same view you have so helpfully posted? And can you help with the formula please? I see you have multiplied the Snitt value (is this "average" in English?) by the Beräknad value ("projected" in English?) ... and then divided that result by .55 - why .55, please? Where does this value come from?

Here are a couple shots that I think are the same as yours, yes? Nice choice in color on your M3, by the way!

View attachment 753724

View attachment 753725




How did you obtain this deep look, please?

I linked you to a post already with how you can calculate this in your own car, using the information on the screen, way back in post #5. It has plain english in where to get the information.

Nevertheless, as said you dont have more than 30% degradation based on what you have shown, so contacting tesla is wasting your time.

 

[Bouba]

Thanks for your help on this! So is this the same view you have so helpfully posted? And can you help with the formula please? I see you have multiplied the Snitt value (is this "average" in English?) by the Beräknad value ("projected" in English?) ... and then divided that result by .55 - why .55, please? Where does this value come from?

Here are a couple shots that I think are the same as yours, yes? Nice choice in color on your M3, by the way!

View attachment 753724

View attachment 753725




How did you obtain this deep look, please?

Your actual usage (216 Wh per km and 318 Wh per km) is very high. I’ve had as low as 80Wh per km. I think the car bases it’s range on 144 Wh per km (or something close).
So your problem is not battery storage but battery expenditure. This is either driving style, poor conditions, or inefficient heating etc (this would be a non heat pump car. Or the car is faulty (not the battery)

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla used to have lots of info for the Roadster, the page is still there, but sadly the images aren't, and they're not on the wayback machine either. There used to be a great graph showing how much energy was used per mile across various speeds.

Roadster Efficiency and Range

EDIT: I think I found most of the graphs at EV Energy Consumption

Roadster Efficiency and Range | Blog | Tesla Motors has non-busted images.

 

[jsredmond]

Absolutely this.

I would like to see all EV companies put out a clear public info page that explained what conditions they used to determine a rated mile, and include a chart with energy used per mile at various speeds and conditions, along with info about how much energy things such as the heating and cooling used, and also the idle power usage (the base load from the computers).

Right now people see "range 300 miles" and assume they can drive 300 miles on a full charge, which in most cases isn't true*. Throw in some heater usage, speed higher than whatever they used for a rated mile, some rain, some elevation change, a headwind etc and it'll be far less.

*On my old commute I used to nearly always get higher than rated range in the summer, due warm weather and sucky traffic.

Why is Tesla thinking so Old and cranky. Give us an API and open up the data so we can collectively learn about usage and battery performance ?

 

[AAKEE]

Why is Tesla thinking so Old and cranky. Give us an API and open up the data so we can collectively learn about usage and battery performance ?

You mean even more open than we already have, with the use of teslafi, teslamate etc?

 

[mattnis]

I'm engaged with Tesla Service on the drastic range drop my 2018 Model 3 LR is experiencing. 3.5 years and 89k miles in, I'm down to barely 200 miles in summer for a full charge and as low as 150 miles in winter. I requested service and after several rounds of email with Tesla Service, it's becoming apparent that they would rather not replace a battery that's now providing at best 64% of original range, well below the minimum 70% of original specified in the Tesla warranty.

Tesla Service replied first with a boilerplate explanation with supporting URLs on how to get more out of a battery (preconditioning battery before charge, winter driving tips, etc). When that didn't dissuade me, then began a slow reveal of some semisecret arithmetic that Tesla Service is apparently using to "prove" that a battery is actually getting more mileage than a driver gets by driving.

Here's the gist: Tesla Service factors in additional miles that the battery supposedly would have provided if a driver does any of the following: drives above 65 mph, launches "aggressively", uses the cabin heater, uses a USB device. There may be others; these are the actions the technician used to tack mileage onto the actual amount I obtained over the last 3 weeks.

For example: I drove 69 miles in a recent week. Tesla stacked on an additional:
• 62 miles for 67% of the driving time being at or above 65 mph
• 15 miles for cabin heating
• 4 miles for USB accessory use

So voila! I didn't use just 62 miles of range that week ... I used 131!! I used more than double the actual mileage by daring to drive above 65 mph with the heater at times and a USB drive plugged in for the dashcam. Live and learn, right?

So I'd love to know if:
A. anyone else has encountered this magical battery math from Tesla?
B. anyone has ever gotten a battery range service claim acted upon with battery replacement?

Thank you, kind Tesla community

Hook up Scan My Tesla. It will show you the EXACT degradation as provided BY the tesla computer. It has nothing to do with miles, just plain and simple percentage degradation.

 

[mattnis]

No (and third party apps like stats or any other not definitive). Do the calculations in the link that I provided and post a screenshot. I am betting you will find you are no where near 70% degradation.

You are making the (very faulty) assumption that, at some point you could drive 310 actual miles in your car, driving exactly like you are driving now, and that was not the case. I already provided the link to show how much actual storage your battery has. If you dont want to do the calculations, post a screenshot here of the information FROM THE CAR as that link explains and we can do it for you.

Back to your thread question. Based on what you have provided so far (which isnt much actually) there is "less than zero" chance you are eligible for a battery replacement, and like @ucmndd said, if you ever hit that threshhold, the warranty states you will get a battery with at least as much storage as the one they replaced, not new.

You can read it yourself. It specifically spells out, in plain english, that replacement may not restore to "like new" condition. In any case, you almost assuredly are no where near 70% degradation, and frankly, tesla constantly responding to people who say some variation of "I can only drive 150 miles in the winter at freeway speeds, my battery is defective" is one reason why tesla employees ignore anyone at all with battery claims.

I realize this sounds like I am somehow saying tesla can do no wrong, and thats not it. Thats not what this is. This is someone saying "my car doesnt get epa range, look at this third party app that says I have 56% efficiency" (and efficiency is not battery capacity, its a made up statistic by the app developer), and then trying to get tesla to replace the battery.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf

(relevant text from page 7 of the tesla new vehicle warranty)

View attachment 751845

You are completely wrong. Warranty states 75% battery capacity. At 74%, that is when the failure occurred. They will replace with at least as much capacity as before failure occurred.

 

[jjrandorin]

You are completely wrong. Warranty states 75% battery capacity. At 74%, that is when the failure occurred. They will replace with at least as much capacity as before failure occurred.

The warranty states 70% so no, 75% is absolutely not correct for a model 3:

Direct from tesla website:

Vehicle Warranty | Tesla Support

Find and view warranties for Tesla vehicles including New Vehicle Limited Warranty, Used Vehicle Limited Warranty and more.

www.tesla.com

The person you are replying to (the OP in this thread) was trying to say they had more than 70% degradation, when they have no where near that.

This OP was thinking they would get a new battery. What you quoted is actually what would happen, IF a battery failed at 75%, that was not degradation. By definition, battery degradation is only covered by tesla when it is more than 70%. Two different situations ( failed battery vs battery degradation claim).

What you are posting is what would happen with a failed battery that isnt battery degradation (I agree with your statement regarding if the battery failed other than degradation, thats what would happen) and in reading the post of mine you quoted am not seeing where I said something different than what you said.

 

[AAKEE]

Hook up Scan My Tesla. It will show you the EXACT degradation as provided BY the tesla computer. It has nothing to do with miles, just plain and simple percentage degradation.

SMT do not present degradation in percent any more. Theres info on SMT homepage about why.

Ch2 do not need SMT to learn about his question. The value SMT will give you is Nominal Full Pack and that value car be calculated from the energy screen together with the SOC as shown in this thread earlier.
Its probably not worth the money to get SMT( App + cable harness + ODB2-dongle) for this if he do not is interested in tech stuff. ( Yes, I have SMT, Teslalogger and Teslafi).
Even a full charge and look at the screen range would supply the information needed to help Ch2 with his question, I actually think he already did get the info he need.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

No, it incr It all we have no idea how the owner treated their battery. And we have no idea if current battery performance is a hardship for the owner/driver.

How many commute 150 - 300 miles per day in winter ? no replies expected, just food for thought.

It appears the OP has experienced a 6% degradation. Pretty good and nowhere near the 30% needed to replace the battery.

He doesn't, in practice, get the EPA (or WLTP) range, but that's normal and doesn't indicate a battery power problem, just a lack of understanding on his part on how to maximize range.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

Even though OP was mistaken about his degradation, I still would like to see Tesla be more transparent on this issue. There’s a simple feature in the settings menu of my $1k iPhone that shows me current battery capacity compared to new (mine is 98% right now). Takes no math skills at all, just a few steps into settings. So if Apple can build that into a $1k iphone why can‘t Tesla build it into a $50k car? Or why won’t they is the better question.

 

[Mrbrock]

Even though OP was mistaken about his degradation, I still would like to see Tesla be more transparent on this issue. There’s a simple feature in the settings menu of my $1k iPhone that shows me current battery capacity compared to new (mine is 98% right now). Takes no math skills at all, just a few steps into settings. So if Apple can build that into a $1k iphone why can‘t Tesla build it into a $50k car? Or why won’t they is the better question.

Kind of agree. But, All you need to do is set your display to miles, plug in, run slider to 100% to see estimated miles at full and divide by range when new. Really you don’t even need to divide, you should know range when new so if it doesn’t equal that then you know it has decreased.

 

[Big Earl]

Quick degradation calculation that anyone can do using the Tesla app: take your current rated miles, divide by current state of charge % (in decimal form), then divide that result by new rated miles. This will display percent capacity compared to new.

Example from my car, just now:

I have 212 rated miles at 78%.

212 / .78 = 271.8 rated miles at 100%

271.8 rated miles (current) / 310 rated miles (new) = 87.6% of original capacity.

Tip: tap on the rated miles or % to toggle between the two.