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Has anyone heard of a Tesla being rear ended because of phantom braking?

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Phantom braking is unsettling and seems like it could cause a rear ending incident but I've yet to hear of a single case where this has happened. Out of the millions of miles that Teslas have driven with automation, there should be multiple reports of accidents if this were truly a problem. Could it be that it's not as dangerous as it appears? Perhaps the car takes into account the car behind before it decides to brake and doesn't do so if the rear car is too close.

BTW: I know about the 6 car pileup last Thanksgiving in the SF Bay Bridge tunnel. A Tesla changed lanes in front of a fast moving vehicle and then slows to a stop, causing the accident. The driver blamed FSD but Teslas use AP on that bridge, not FSD, so that's not possible. Also phantom braking incidents don't stop the car, they only retard the speed temporarily then continue at full speed. The full report of this incident has not been released and the driver's report is verifiably erroneous so phantom braking may not be the issue.
 
Phantom braking is an artifact of TACC (it happens with AP off), not of AP or FSD. TACC controls speed, AP is lane keeping, NoA adds navigation, and FSD expands navigation to “city” streets.
Autopilot is a set of features. TACC and Autosteer are features of autopilot. From the 2022+ Model S manual:
Screenshot_20230309_142706_Chrome.jpg
 
...not FSD, so that's not possible...

Similarly to @EVRider-FL, how can you take comfort in rationalizing that because this 8 car pile up is in the highway, so it cannot be FSD?

So, by paying $15,000 for FSD instead of free Autopilot, does that help to avoid phantom brake in this case? How much more money, $100,000, for FSD to avoid phantom brakes?

Whether a driver got a free Autopilot or a 2020 predicted future price of $100,000 FSD, the issue of phantom brakes is still there to be solved.

First, the radar was blamed so the solution would be getting rid of radar. Getting rid of radar didn't solve the phantom brakes, so now Tesla is bringing radar back this month.

Whether an owner got a free Autopilot or an expensive FSD, the foundation of hardware/software is the same: Either you are radarless in both versions or you now have radar in free Autopilot or expensive FSD.

...Also phantom braking incidents don't stop the car, they only retard the speed temporarily then continue at full speed...
Tesla defines phantom brakes as "slowdowns" in its release notes.

"Phantom" is like something real not there, like a ghost or a phantom limb caused by a nonexistent limb. The brakes should not slow down the car if there's nothing there.

It's "nothing" to humans but something to the system: It works by the algorithm. It brakes because it follows an algorithm, but it's still not an acceptable reason to brake: shadow on the road, mirage, overhead bridge, flashing lights...

Any slowdown is not acceptable if an average driver would not do that. If the TACC is set at 65, it should not slow down below 65 if the road is clear. The machine should obey what humans set the speed for it.


The full report of this incident has not been released and the driver's report is verifiably erroneous so phantom braking may not be the issue.
True. The full report is not done, but Tesla has quickly corrected false claims even without a PR department.
 
@Tam You rear end someone because you were following too close or you were inattentive, daydreaming etc. It has little to do with the guy ahead, as there is no way a car can come to a complete stop in 1.5 to 2 seconds which is the reaction and response time of normal humans. People have this backwards. The Tesla did not cause the crash, the guys behind caused the crash.
 
Similarly to @EVRider-FL, how can you take comfort in rationalizing that because this 8 car pile up is in the highway, so it cannot be FSD?

So, by paying $15,000 for FSD instead of free Autopilot, does that help to avoid phantom brake in this case? How much more money, $100,000, for FSD to avoid phantom brakes?

Whether a driver got a free Autopilot or a 2020 predicted future price of $100,000 FSD, the issue of phantom brakes is still there to be solved.

First, the radar was blamed so the solution would be getting rid of radar. Getting rid of radar didn't solve the phantom brakes, so now Tesla is bringing radar back this month.

Whether an owner got a free Autopilot or an expensive FSD, the foundation of hardware/software is the same: Either you are radarless in both versions or you now have radar in free Autopilot or expensive FSD.


Tesla defines phantom brakes as "slowdowns" in its release notes.

"Phantom" is like something real not there, like a ghost or a phantom limb caused by a nonexistent limb. The brakes should not slow down the car if there's nothing there.

It's "nothing" to humans but something to the system: It works by the algorithm. It brakes because it follows an algorithm, but it's still not an acceptable reason to brake: shadow on the road, mirage, overhead bridge, flashing lights...

Any slowdown is not acceptable if an average driver would not do that. If the TACC is set at 65, it should not slow down below 65 if the road is clear. The machine should obey what humans set the speed for it.



True. The full report is not done, but Tesla has quickly corrected false claims even without a PR department.
constantly quoted but totally erroneous.
If you stop quickly because of an obstruction, is it your fault if a following car rear ends you?
Hint - no it isn't
So when SIX cars all run into each other is it the fault of the second car? How about the third one?
How far back down line does it have to go before its because someone was following to closely or not paying attention?

So after all that, if its a person it would be the fault of the follower, but if its AP then its the fault of the automation not the follower?
 
The distinction between AP and FSD really doesn't matter in this context. Either the driver was using AP or driving manually.
The Tesla driver was victim-blamed. It was the guy behind him who shafted him up the rear end when he wasn't looking. Like an idiot, the Tesla driver took the blame because he is ashamed to admit he drives a Tesla or something.
 
constantly quoted but totally erroneous.
If you stop quickly because of an obstruction, is it your fault if a following car rear ends you?
Hint - no it isn't
So when SIX cars all run into each other is it the fault of the second car? How about the third one?
How far back down line does it have to go before its because someone was following to closely or not paying attention?

So after all that, if its a person it would be the fault of the follower, but if its AP then its the fault of the automation not the follower?
I understand that, by default, it's the fault of those who don't know how to keep a safe distance in a rear-end collision.

If I drive too slowly, 35 MPH in a 65 MPH zone, and someone rear-ends me at 65 MPH, the insurance will fault the hitting driver, but the cop might issue me a $238 ticket for violating Vehicle Code 22400 VC for driving too slowly.
 
I’ve been very close to rear ended in Miami on the I75 during a phantom brake. I was just using TACC at the time in pretty thick traffic. I stomped on the accelerator as soon as I noticed. It caused a guy in a older truck to lock up his breaks and squeal pretty good and was very close to a collision. The guy was following pretty close so he thought I was braking checking him.
He of course pulled around me flipped the bird and drove even more aggressively after this.

Normally when I have it happen is when no one is behind me so only freaks out my passengers. Depending on the situation I’ll correct it by pressing the accelerator or see just how low it will take it before self correction.
 
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NO other brand does this as consistently or often as Tesla. Again, I've driven 5-10 other brand with TACC type cruise and didn't even know Phantom Braking was a thing until got a Tesla. Now on our X it happens a couple times an hour where we live and is annoying as f to have car slam in the brakes.

Never been rear ended because when someone is behind me, I turn it off and manually drive the car. Our nearest Tesla Approved Body Shop is 3 hours away so I don't risk the car trying to tempt the guy behind us to run into it.

Just fix this already Tesla, or hire Mobile Eye to do it if you are incompetent. It's been 7 years. Getting old!
 
Phantom braking is unsettling and seems like it could cause a rear ending incident but I've yet to hear of a single case where this has happened. Out of the millions of miles that Teslas have driven with automation, there should be multiple reports of accidents if this were truly a problem. Could it be that it's not as dangerous as it appears? Perhaps the car takes into account the car behind before it decides to brake and doesn't do so if the rear car is too close.

BTW: I know about the 6 car pileup last Thanksgiving in the SF Bay Bridge tunnel. A Tesla changed lanes in front of a fast moving vehicle and then slows to a stop, causing the accident. The driver blamed FSD but Teslas use AP on that bridge, not FSD, so that's not possible. Also phantom braking incidents don't stop the car, they only retard the speed temporarily then continue at full speed. The full report of this incident has not been released and the driver's report is verifiably erroneous so phantom braking may not be the issue.
honestly i'm not sure how much of an issue this still is, i'm on the latest build of FSDb but in my experience phantom breaking is gone. I drive on AP/FSD a couple hours every day and the last few months the only time it breaks erroneously is when there is a speed limit change (or the car thinks there is), or it incorrectly detects stop signs/lights (we have a couple oddly angled lights that it likes to stop at even tho they are for a turn lane).

That said, back when PB was a bigger issue, i'm convinced it was watching the cars behind you for that exact reason. I had multiple instances of PB on congested highways and never once did anyone ever come that close to hitting me, however if there was no one on the highway it would break much more dramatically. Which tells me that it was reducing the breaking due to the cars on road. And it did this very consistently for months.

I do belive the manual says it wont accelerate or break to avoid a collision from behind but that is clearly not entirely true, atleast as it applies to this scenario.
 
Not that I know of. It does slow down sometimes, and slows down more that I like, but I’ve never experienced it “slamming on the brakes”.
I have - on my recent 3500 mile road trip - twice for me in moderate traffic at highway speed on FSD. I was able to react quickly and avoided mayhem,
Once to my wife - she was in the smart cruise mode, no cars behind luckily - she had no idea what happened and did not react
 
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