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Has anyone in SoCal had Edison install a second electric meter for a lower tier bill?

Discussion in 'California' started by roastbeef, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. roastbeef

    roastbeef New Member

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    I'm not a Tesla owner yet, I'm leasing a smart car (electric) for three years. Edison basically told me they want a separate breaker off my main electrical panel off of my house to a dedicated outlet and they will come out and install the second meter for free. A few electricians I have spoken with over the phone are wishy-washy and want to install a dual panel and basically up sell their services.

    I'm basically hoping to chat with someone who has done it. I'm looking at getting 240V wired off my main electrical panel with its own breaker.

    Someday, I'll likely own a Tesla, but until then, I have my electric smart car, V8 M3, and rock crawler.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  2. kglad99

    kglad99 Member

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    it would be pretty unusual for that to make financial sense unless you own more than 1 electric vehicle.

    i created an app that shows you your expected costs under the various sce plans, sce
     
  3. kmontoya

    kmontoya Member

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  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone in SoCal had Edison install a second electric meter for a lower ti...

    What is the purpose and advantage of having a separate meter for EV charging in Southern California?
    Here in Northern California I have a single meter for a 200A main panel and a 100A sub panel.
    The sub panel handles a 70A HPC for my Roadster and a 50A 240V NEMA 14-50 plug as a backup for EV charging if the dedicated charger fails.
    My main panel handles an 80A HPWC for Model S charging and the house circuits. I am on the PG&E TOU plan so my situation is likely not comparable to yours.
    I do not have a need to separately measure how many kW I use to charge my EVs. Maybe you do?
    Note: my average monthly electric bill is only $150. I am currently driving the Roadster about 12K/year. The Model S is driven less than that and many of its miles (maybe a third, not sure) are done using Supercharging.
     
  5. ddimit

    ddimit Member

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    Sacramento, California, United States
    SCE along with PGE and SDGE is running a pilot they use a device called a Watt Box you pay like $50.00 it has an approved submeter in it and you will get edison's 5 cent per KWH rate that you would normally get for the dedicated submeter.

    I'm on the pilot for down there as a I have a second House on SCE. They are actively seeking new participants before the pilot closes on 8/31.

    Email [email protected] for more information.

    Here is the SCE link
    https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/residential-rates/ev-submeter-pilot/!ut/p/b1/hdDLboMwEAXQr2GLLzYNTndGscAuDU2hKfGmIhUlVARHhIbfL42y6Xt2Mzp3pBliSEFMV56auhwa25XtR29mT1othBf5VIFrCZGxVIZJTEH9CWwmgF9K4L_8IzFn4vFIxCqDih5yARUuQi--VcDS_wp4HskJ3GC-vqPMD4JvG-4DCqXXMklDj4LTC5hHkLFOJ5CvGBRbYZkJwYDZBfxxhSambu32_JGN6LaM18T01UvVV7371k_j3TAcjtcOHIzj6NbW1m3lPtu9g58iO3scSPFZksO-QKNer9pTIt4B8sQsyQ!!/dl4/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/
     
  6. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure this All Out

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    I am on PG&E TOU (E7) plan and I am getting a second meter. I currently am running in Tier 3 and charging an EV would put me in Tier 4 for sure. Off peak Tier 1 is $.08 while off peak Tier 4 is $0.30. And it would not just be the car but all my usage.

    The off peak EV rate is always $.10 per kWh no matter how much I use. There are no Tiers for the EV.

    By using a separate meter I will only be charged the EV rate and it won't throw me under the bus on my regular usage.
     
  7. smilepak

    smilepak Member

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    The second meter cost too much to install for me. I asked one electrician and he quoted me some crazy price.

    I did go to the time of use plan

    Peak Period 2PM - 8PM ==> 0.31/kw
    Off Peak 8PM - 10PM & 8AM - 2PM ==> 0.18/kw
    Super Off Peak 10PM - 8AM ==> 0.11/kw

    On the weekend, there is only Off Peak and Super Off Peak. So no Peak Period charges.
     
  8. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

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    The reason for a second meter for charging you electric car in PG&E territory is you get a special ev rate. Also I'm all electric and even though I have solar if I were to add the Tesla to the E7 tou for the house it puts me way into the 4 and 5 tier. So I eliminate that and still get the advantage of selling back the peak kWh to them at 3 times the normal rate which in the summer puts me into the net metering negative bill monthly credits. My bill for the Tesla for 2 years and 23000 miles was $260.
     
  9. Gr8pursuit

    Gr8pursuit Member

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    How much is it to install the sub-meter or is it an easy DIY'er. 5cents a kwh any other extra charges?
     
  10. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    The Wattbox is a very easy install, but you have to have a UL listed EVSE and a licensed electrician has to install the Current Transformers in the junction box supplying the EVSE. It should only be about 30 minutes work - but I have no idea what an electrician would charge to come out for a 30 minute job. I don't think it's possible for 5 cents to be all the charges.

    A user on another forum got their first bill from SCE on this pilot program.
    The "Service Connection Charge" is a one-time fee, so that will not be recurring.
     
  11. ddimit

    ddimit Member

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    EMOTORWERKS is offering a 100.00 credit for the install charge if you have an electrician install the Wattbox. My understanding if your charge cord is NTRL Certified that qualifies as an EVSE. I know the HPWC falls under this category. not sure about the UMC.

    I have the SCE TOU D-A my super off peek is .11cents with the WattBox this drops to 5 cents. it's an easy Justification for the $50.00 cost of the WattBOX. I was holding out for the JuiceBox model that is an integrated EVSE but it didn't make UL Certification in time to qualify.

    If you had looked at a separate meter plan but determined it wasn't cost effective I urge to to check into the Pilot program before it closes at the end of the month.
     
  12. smilepak

    smilepak Member

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    is a SUBMETER different than a second meter?

    electric-meter.jpg

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nevermind answered my own questions http://emotorwerks.com/images/WattBox%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf

     
  13. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Member

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    Aren't both TOU-D and EV-1 rates are 11¢

    Hmmm...

    I just checked both SCE Super Off-Peak rates and I think they're both 11¢

    Am I missing something?

    Plan Service Generation TOTAL
    TOU-D 0.07417 0.04083 11.5¢ https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce360.pdf
    EV-1 0.05394 0.06651 12.045¢ https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce114-12.pdf

    The bigger advantage of EV-1 seemed to be the lowest 11¢ rate HOURS:


    • EV-1 9:00 p.m. to 12:00 noon
    • TOU-D 10:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m.

    Rates & Hours

    TOU-D-B Time-Of-Use Domestic (retes are Summer Winter)
    On-Peak: 35¢ 25¢ 2:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. summer and winter weekdays except holidays
    Off-Peak: 18¢ 14¢

    • 8:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.
    • 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.
    Super Off-Peak: 11¢ 11¢ 10:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. all year, every day

    TOU-EV-1 Time-Of-Use Domestic Electric Vehicle Charging
    On-Peak: 12:00 noon to 9:00 p.m. all year, every day 36¢ 23¢
    Off-Peak: 9:00 p.m. To 12:00 noon - all year, everyday 11¢ 11¢
     
  14. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Member

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    The WattBox is actually $65.79 including shipping & CA sales tax
     
  15. smilepak

    smilepak Member

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    I think the TOU-EV-1 is discontinued, I thought. But some got grandfathered so their TOU-EV-1 will last a bit longer?
     
  16. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Member

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  17. ddimit

    ddimit Member

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    Unless i i am missing something here is the link from SCE website showing the EV dedicated meter rate. The submeter pilot uses this rate plan

    this rate was filed 5/30/2015 effective 6/1/2015

    https://www.sce.com/NR/sc3/tm2/pdf/ce114-12.pdf
     
  18. emotorwerks

    emotorwerks Member

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    Yes, this is the correct tariff. SCE advice letter 56807-E has superseded advice letter 56277-E, which was referenced in the submetering pilot. My apologies for not being able to post more, it looks like anything with a link or an image requires admin approval, which is not fortcoming, even after several days of waiting. If you wanted to experience more direct support for this pilot, please look for the JuiceBox Power Users group on Facebook. Thank you for your interest in the PEV submetering pilot. We are doing what we can to get everyone interested enrolled before the August 31 deadline.
     
  19. steph280

    steph280 Member

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    So this JuiceBox connects to our existing 14-50 outlet, and then provides a J1772 plug which we have to use adapter to plug into Tesla?

    Does the 14-50 outlet need to be on a separate meter from rest of the house, or will SCE know to deduct its usage and put it on a separate bill with EV rates?
     
  20. emotorwerks

    emotorwerks Member

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    Yes, JuiceBox is a just a WiFi-connected 40-amp charging station with a J1772 connector. It does not need to be on a submeter. JuiceBox can meter its own usage and transmit this data over the Internet (and via OhmConnect) to the utility.

    One of the objectives of this pilot is to determine if a more affordable 3rd-party submeter will satisfy utility requirements and expectations. The goal is to lower the entry barrier, and help EV drivers to get onto the EV-B tariff. Due to the nature of this pilot, our assumption was that submeter and other fees should not apply, and this aspect might need to be clarified.

    Additionally, the participating utilities made it clear at some point that they won't accept any equipment that's not UL-certified. Pre-existing equipment can be certified by any OSHA-recognized safety lab, but anything rolled out under the terms of the pilot must have gone through UL. eMotorWerks is still going through the motions of obtaining UL-listing for JuiceBox.

    Until that process has been completed, JuiceBox is unfortunately not an option as a WiFi-enabled submeter for the PEV Pilot. The only viable and approved option as of this writing is the WattBox. eMotorWerks has partnered with EKM, a Santa Cruz based manufacturer of electronic metering hardware. Their OmniMeter, which forms the bases of WattBox, is UL-listed and revenue grade.

    I hope this helps. Please let us know if you had any additional questions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Correction: the EV-B tariff is specific to PG&E. The corresponding SEC tariff is TOU-EV-1, and the equivalent SDG&E tariff is EV-TOU.
     

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