Has anyone opted out of TM's collection of your vehicle's telematics data?

[KimVerska]

I'm a privacy lawyer, Elon fangirl and wife of a devoted Tesla driver, and I'm writing on article on privacy concerns in connected cars. In addition to the hacking angle, I am interested in anyone who has attempted to limit the data Tesla can collect on you. From their privacy policy on www.teslamotors.com, it says you can request that they don't collect telematics:

Our collection of Tesla vehicle data. If you no longer wish us to collect Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, please contact us as indicated in the "How to Contact Us" section below. Please note that, if you opt out from the collection of Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, we will not be able to notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time, and this may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability, and it may also disable many features of your vehicle including periodic software and firmware updates, remote services, and interactivity with mobile applications and in-car features such as location search, Internet radio, voice commands, and web browser functionality.​

Has anyone taken them up on this? If so, I'd be interested in emailing you. Thanks very much!
Kim

 

[ecarfan]

I suppose with tens of thousands of Model s owners there must be a few who have opted out, but I bet very few. The advantages of Tesla being able to collect real time data from your car are obvious. If you don't trust the company there are certainly potential disadvantages. But so far I take Elon at his word that Tesla takes customer privacy very seriously so I have not opted out.

 

[bluetinc]

Hi Kim,

Just a minor note. When I purchased my S, one of the forms that I signed was a form opting into the collection of telematics from my car. It may seem small, but I feel there is a significant difference between having to opt out of something vs. opting in. Of course once you opt in, and want to opt out, the note you referenced would apply.

Peter

 

[TES-E]

To answer the original question... Nope.

 

[Chickenlittle]

I'm a privacy lawyer, Elon fangirl and wife of a devoted Tesla driver, and I'm writing on article on privacy concerns in connected cars. In addition to the hacking angle, I am interested in anyone who has attempted to limit the data Tesla can collect on you. From their privacy policy on www.teslamotors.com, it says you can request that they don't collect telematics:

Our collection of Tesla vehicle data. If you no longer wish us to collect Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, please contact us as indicated in the "How to Contact Us" section below. Please note that, if you opt out from the collection of Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, we will not be able to notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time, and this may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability, and it may also disable many features of your vehicle including periodic software and firmware updates, remote services, and interactivity with mobile applications and in-car features such as location search, Internet radio, voice commands, and web browser functionality.​

Has anyone taken them up on this? If so, I'd be interested in emailing you. Thanks very much!
Kim

I tried too. It didn't help. I noticed helicopters overhead with tesla logo following me all day. They are so intrusive.

 

[rapoport3a]

As I said to my usual Tesla person, I'm less concerned about Tesla having data than I am about someone who hacks into Tesla to get it. I don't know what the safeguards are. Are they better than those at bigger, older companies?

It's hard to believe, nonetheless, that opting out would have all the consequences mentioned.

 

[NigelM]

As far as privacy is concerned, Tesla is actually collecting far less data than your cell phone provider, your credit card company and numerous others. Tesla can theoretically see where you're driving, your cell phone provider can see what room you're in and potentially who you're meeting with. No, I'm not bothered by the Tesla agreement.

 

[Chickenlittle]

actually I find it strange that a privacy lawyer would use their real name as a user handle if they are truly concerned or knowledgeable on privacy issues

 

[neroden]

I think we won't see significant opt-outs until the warranty period ends. Then we might, because the benefits of the telematics suddenly drop significantly.

On the other hand, if Tesla releases a real stinker of a software update (and I sure hope they won't), you may see a bunch of opt-outs in order to prevent future software updates.

 

[hobbes]

I have been thinking about this data collection and have to say I don´t feel good about it. Don´t have a Tesla yet so didn´t try to opt out. Don´t like Tesla´s policy that it is all or nothing - if they wanted it should be no problem letting you do updates and having the car send technical problems while keeping positional data private.

(The argument with cell phones being worse does not make sense because one company neglecting privacy doesn´t make it better for another doing the same thing. And GPS is more exact than positioning over the cell network and I can and do switch it off most of the time. The atmosphere here feels kind of with the vegan requesting non-leather seats and everyone making fund of it...)

I'm a privacy lawyer, Elon fangirl and wife of a devoted Tesla driver, and I'm writing on article on privacy concerns in connected cars. In addition to the hacking angle, I am interested in anyone who has attempted to limit the data Tesla can collect on you. From their privacy policy on www.teslamotors.com, it says you can request that they don't collect telematics:

Our collection of Tesla vehicle data. If you no longer wish us to collect Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, please contact us as indicated in the "How to Contact Us" section below. Please note that, if you opt out from the collection of Telematics Log Data or any other data from your Tesla vehicle, we will not be able to notify you of issues applicable to your vehicle in real time, and this may result in your vehicle suffering from reduced functionality, serious damage, or inoperability, and it may also disable many features of your vehicle including periodic software and firmware updates, remote services, and interactivity with mobile applications and in-car features such as location search, Internet radio, voice commands, and web browser functionality.​

Has anyone taken them up on this? If so, I'd be interested in emailing you. Thanks very much!
Kim

 

[Jaff]

I think we won't see significant opt-outs until the warranty period ends. Then we might, because the benefits of the telematics suddenly drop significantly.

On the other hand, if Tesla releases a real stinker of a software update (and I sure hope they won't), you may see a bunch of opt-outs in order to prevent future software updates.

The overall benefit is for the greater good of the environment through the advancement of EVs...why do so many here on this forum only look at the small picture i.e. personal satisfaction / gain / what's in it for me?

We all have to live in this environment...intentionally holding back data that could help Tesla or any EV manufacturer build a better EV is counter-productive imo.

 

[BertL]

My personal take on this is I'm also OK with Tesla having the data their policy suggests they collect -- I too, am more worried if they get hacked and what that data may then be used for, even though I don't think I'm a nefarious type that conducts nefarious business, or has something to really hide. I just don't like the idea of companies collecting details about me and how that may be used one day in the future. Call me paranoid perhaps, but having spent nearly 35 years in the IT business and technical support with a myriad of companies, there is always the unknown. Having said that, I read every privacy policy before I do business with a company or sign-up for a website, for example -- it's also why I elect to not frequent Facebook, Twitter, and other sites, and have taken great pains to opt out of personal Google data collection, and delete my history with them now that we have that option available.

The deciding point for me tends to be, what will companies do with my data? Is there value TO ME in providing whatever data it is they may collect? If it is to potentially send me unwanted solicitations or if they are allowed to provide my info to 3rd parties (like EVgo's policy seems to allow, hence why they are not on my short list of pay-for charge points that I've been researching, and I've deleted their bookmark so I won't go back), I typically won't sign-up unless I'm sort of forced to, e.g. I maintain a Facebook and Twitter account, but have turned basically everything off in terms of capability and what's collected within whatever constraints they provide, and put no data of any consequence in my profile -- that allows me to very infrequently use my IDs to logon and access services or say company sites where I'm trying to find more information about something should a company or service not have their own WWW presence like a growing number of smaller businesses tend to do. This whole "give your data away for free services" model that Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc use is a turn-off for me -- I know a majority must love it, or simply don't care right now. I'm OK being in the minority, but given a choice, I'd prefer to just pay sites like that a direct small monthly fee if I wanted to use their services, and them then not keep or have the ability to collect my usage data and bombard me with ads at the same time.

All that being said, I carefully read Tesla's Privacy Policy, and had several questions I posed to the folks at the Tesla Store before I ordered my S90D, in particular if I had to actually sign-on to Google, and to what degree Google (vs Tesla) could back track my ongoing Nav data -- I was told Google can't. While I'm still hesitant about the big G and companies like them, I'm as comfortable as I can be that Tesla's intent is to only use data specific to me that will benefit my ownership experience with their product, and aggregated data they need for other purposes won't contain specifics tracked back to me. I could be wrong, but my feeling is if one is going to buy into what a Tesla is, and what Tesla is trying to accomplish with new paradigms in this industry, you really need to buy in to allowing your vehicle to be connected to their world -- without that, you've cut off a major benefit of what this whole new evolution is about and my $100K+ investment. ...That's my 2-cents for what it's worth or not -- I'm sure there are arrows to now be fired my way, but so be that. We all fortunately can make our choices, and no one has to buy a Tesla if they don't want to. I personally can't wait to take delivery of mine early next month.

 

[CHG-ON]

I think it is a very valuable service, actually. I have absolutely nothing to hide, except for fast driving, so I am not concerned. And their ability to tunnel in and see everything about my car has proved quite useful and has avoided unnecessary trips to the service center. They can diagnose over the phone, real time, with some issues. The issue for me is their commitment to confidentiality. Only time will tell on that.

This is a much larger issue than what Tesla does with the data. We need Federal legislation that protects users' privacy in a very robust manner.

 

[Pete90D]

We need Federal legislation that protects users' privacy in a very robust manner.

I think this is what really needs to happen. It's unlikely to happen for a general speeding ticket, but imagine if the police could subpoena your records and then charge you with speeding. I don't know enough about what is and isn't allowed, and under what conditions the records could be revealed under subpoena, but it would suck. "Pete, we are going to charge you with 71 in a in a 65 on 9/1, 71 in a 65 on 9/2, another 58 in a 55 on 9/3... and all because you got caught speeding and tried to fight it".

Unlikely, but what if you did get tagged doing like 120 in a 55, and it wasn't even you. The cop somehow tagged someone else and thought it was you for some reason and you decided to fight it. You could say, pull my records from Tesla. Would Tesla release them? and would the court be able to look at other time periods.

 

[CHG-ON]

This relates directly to what insurance companies are now doing by offering OBD modules to track your driving and then "lowering" (DOUBT it) your rates if you drive like Grandma and Grandpa. They are trying to lure us into sharing all this information that will most certainly backfire on those who are sucked in.

I think this is what really needs to happen. It's unlikely to happen for a general speeding ticket, but imagine if the police could subpoena your records and then charge you with speeding. I don't know enough about what is and isn't allowed, and under what conditions the records could be revealed under subpoena, but it would suck. "Pete, we are going to charge you with 71 in a in a 65 on 9/1, 71 in a 65 on 9/2, another 58 in a 55 on 9/3... and all because you got caught speeding and tried to fight it".

Unlikely, but what if you did get tagged doing like 120 in a 55, and it wasn't even you. The cop somehow tagged someone else and thought it was you for some reason and you decided to fight it. You could say, pull my records from Tesla. Would Tesla release them? and would the court be able to look at other time periods.

 

[tinm]

Seems inevitable to me that at some point in the future, Tesla will not be the only one with real-time access to the telematics. The govt, at fed, state, and local level, is going to get it too, either with or without a warrant. Guaranteed to happen.

Maybe ten years off still, don't know. Fail to use turn signal? Cop's software overrides your car, forces it to pull over and turn off. Welcome to the future. Enjoy the present while it still lasts.

 

[CHG-ON]

Seems inevitable to me that at some point in the future, Tesla will not be the only one with real-time access to the telematics. The govt, at fed, state, and local level, is going to get it too, either with or without a warrant. Guaranteed to happen.

Maybe ten years off still, don't know. Fail to use turn signal? Cop's software overrides your car, forces it to pull over and turn off. Welcome to the future. Enjoy the present while it still lasts.

I am sad to say that I agree. I store nothing in the cloud (except for the car, I guess), for exactly that reason.

 

[jerry33]

Given that Tesla sometimes calls the cars in for service before a failure actually happens, I don't really understand why anyone would want to opt out. There are already so many non-car tracking systems out there that opting out is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. At least in Tesla's case, we can be sure that they aren't spending any resources tracking what they don't have to.

 

[kirkbauer]

The main set of people who I really don't want to have my data is government. Given Musk's pro-Liberty beliefs I expect he will do what he can to not share the data with them.

 

[tinm]

Doesn't matter what Elon thinks or does.Tesla uses AT&T. They'd sell their own mother's data given the chance. Actually they do already I'm sure.