Has anyone suddenly started hydroplaning in rain? [tires were bald]

[Sporty]

Today I had the most frightening driving experience of my entire life. It was raining heavily and I was going about 60 mph on the freeway in my model 3 standard, 3 months new. Suddenly I lost all traction and was slipping side to side +/-90 degrees from the direction of traffic. I immediately took my foot off the accelerator and tried to slow down but didn’t brake. I swung 180 degrees each way about 5 times. Luckily no one hit me but I was taking up three lanes as I careened all over the freeway. I can’t believe how easily the model 3 loses traction in the rain. This is unacceptable. I would not recommend this car especially to anyone who lives in a rainy climate.

I’m glad everyone is ok.
That doesn’t sound normal. I’d check the tires. Make sure they are in good shape and are inflated properly.

I have M3P which has great summer tires. The car is very sure footed on the road for me. The computer seems to do a stellar job at keeping it from sliding.

That said the summer tires are not for snow driving.

 

[Stewart]

Personally I would not use AP in the rain. I doubt that it could anticipate/feel/handle a hydroplaning situation anywhere near as well as you.

Agreed, I was interested in the abilities of AP, I was impressed with the lane following capabilities in the current weather. I certainly was hyper aware of what was going on.

 

[roblab]

I would just like to add my nickel's worth. I drove in SoCal for twenty years and then moved to Missouri. in the first month there we had a little shower where it dumped three inches in less than an hour, and I was impressed, for, as some of you know, LA folks measure their rain in how far apart the drops are: A six inch rain means the drops are six inches apart.

As I HAD to drive in my business, I figured out I'd better learn to drive in the rain. I found that I had to SLOW DOWN and more importantly, NOT MAKE ANY QUICK CORRECTIONS IN SPEED OR IN DIRECTION (As in, move the steering wheel extremely gently, slowly, and the gas pedal the same. Probably best to not even use the brakes, and then only gently and lightly). And it helps to practice a little, even if it's behind Costco.

I drove past many drivers doing 180s on the freeway, and once I had a Porsche try to pass me because I was slowing him down. As he came up beside me he was facing backwards, white knuckles on the wheel, and when he turned back forward, he pulled in behind me as we drove carefully down the road.

Unfortunately, too many drivers will never think of this until they are in the ditch somewhere.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I drove my 2021 SR+ in heavy (for Bay Area) rain recently and it was fine. No harder to handle than my old front heavy FWD Camry. I passed a bunch of accidents where obviously people hydroplaned. The roads here don't really drain, so it leaves a sheet of water on the road, which usually just means there is a lot of mist being thrown up when driving past, but in areas where the sheet is heavier, it means you can easily hydroplane.

From your account, it sounds like you overreacted and made all the mistakes that people make when they hydroplane (namely braking/slowing down too fast, and apply too quick steering inputs). And given you say you just got the car, you probably were not aware that letting off the accelerator completely means full regen, which is akin to braking and a bad idea when a car is hydroplaning.

The only factor I really see that plays a big deal in hydroplaning are the tires, but if your car is 3 months old, and presumably not driven a lot of miles, then I don't see tire wear being bad enough for that to play that big a factor. Other factors is varying tire inflation that may affect the size of the contact patch. But not seeing there are other factors inherent in a Model 3 that would affect this.

 

[Futaba]

There is a guy named Dr Yan Lyansky who posted an opinion on this. Read it!

You mean this? LOL! This guy writes a lot about bicycles. He knows nothing about cars.

Tesla Problems/Flaws

Tesla model 3 flaws

www.downtube.com

 

[ThomasD]

Blacktop can be very slick in the rain.

 

[Sporty]

Blacktop can be very slick in the rain.

Especially when it first starts raining… before it’s washed the slippery stuff off the road.

 

[KenC]

My car has the standard wheels and has 7k miles. I would agree that the massive hydroplaning on the freeway was driver error except for the fact that my husband and I are experiencing significant traction loss and more minor hydroplaning episodes on rainy surfaces on the freeway and city roads. I am shocked at the lack of others reporting this. Do you think I should take it in to Tesla and ask for an alignment service? Also please save snarky comments for your family.

Well, the lack of reports of hydroplaning may be because hydroplaning episodes may be no more common in a 3 than your average vehicle. Since you experienced one, I would have your tires and suspension inspected to make sure the vehicle is operating as expected. If there isn't anything mechanical, it could be that your experience is with FWD, and not RWD, and perhaps your reactions are counteracting the corrective actions of the car's systems. Is there a driving school nearby you could go to, to try a wet skidpad and get an expert to assess? Buttonwillow?

By the way, what tires are on your vehicle? Are they Summer tires? Did you have the alignment checked, as some 3s have been known to be misaligned from the factory.

I looked up Dr. Yan Lyansky, and found his comment:
"Hydroplaning risk: The model 3 is super low to the ground. This means it handles well, and is very efficient. However, it makes the car more likely to hydroplane in rain. There is a negative correlation between ground clearance and probability of hydroplaning."

My comment is that the Model 3 is NOT "super low to the ground". In SoCal, there are lots of vehicles with comparable ground clearance. Further, hydroplaning has little to do with ground clearance in passenger vehicles. Only Formula 1 race cars are low enough to worry about hydroplaning due to ground clearance. Their cars are literally dragging on the ground to maximize aerodynamic ground effects. If you watch a race, you'll see sparks coming up, from the titanium plugs dragging on the ground. Nothing on the Tesla touches the ground except for your tires. There is no correlation between ground clearance and probability of hydroplaning for passenger vehicles at OEM ride heights. I'd say Dr. Yan doesn't really know what he's talking about.

 

[tm1v2]

I'm with everyone on this, hydroplaning is almost all about your tires and your driving. Look at those for the problem and solution.

Nothing about the Model 3 makes it any more likely to hydroplane than any other car. I and many, many others here would have noticed by now if there was such an issue.

The only thing, as others have mentioned, is remember that accelerator lift means regen braking from the rear motor. Don't do that in standing water.

 

[earthwormjim]

I doubt this was hydroplaning from just water, probably an oil patch. LA has been in drought conditions for the past few years, so there is a ton of grime and oil built up on the roads. The little rain we've been getting intermittently the past few weeks, allows that oil and grime to float on top of the water, but not wash away.

Model 3 has been in my experience, on par with any other modern car as far as drivability in the rain on freeways. Although I can totally imagine aggressive regen braking backfiring. One nice advantage is how quiet the motor is, so you can easily hear what the tires are doing, listen and slow down.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I think it's worth pointing out that although regen works on the rear motor, if the car is travelling in a straight line and you abruptly lift off, it's not going to cause the car to suddenly flick into a drift. It's not that aggressive and in any case the torque vectoring will prevent any extreme yawing and bring the car back into line. The Model 3 is extremely well behaved in this respect, even the RWD SR version.

A few months ago I was at a track day here in the UK at Thruxton, which is the fastest UK circuit and is all fast sweeping corners. There was a totally stock M3 SR being driven there in cold, wet conditions, on regular road tyres and it behaved very well and was actually not much slower then a couple of other M3Ps which were there on the same day. The SR if anything handles slightly better and is lighter, so the M3Ps didn't have such an advantage in those conditions.

I'll repeat myself - There is nothing inherently wrong with the behaviour of the Model 3 in the wet.

 

[Amped412]

Lower tire pressures can increase your chances of hydroplaning. With winter here be sure to keep your tires to 42 psi (Tesla’s recommended tire pressures)

 

[gearchruncher]

I find this whole conversation pretty hilarious in the light of how dominant Model 3's are considered in racing at low speeds in the rain due to the amazing traction control.

At my local track, the rule basically is that there are 4 cars that are going to be close on any given day, unless it rains, in which case the Model 3 always wins. Always. Usually by a dominant amount, and always running much wider than stock tires which would make hydroplaning worse.

Teslas are much more competent in the rain and slick than your average vehicle.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

My first instinct was the same as many of you - that the OP is unskilled and was actually *turning* the car left and right while the stability control system obediently granted his wishes.

But then I saw this video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/rolt09

I've never seen a modern car do that even with the baldest of tires, and believe me, I've tried.
So I wonder if this could actually be a thing? Tesla's rear axle regen is much stronger at high speeds than any modern manual transmission car I've driven and while their traction control is vastly better than most fossil cars, the stability control is largely conventional. Therefore it's conceivable that the Tesla could be much worse at handling this type of tire/rain/driver scenario than most other brands.

 

[Sporty]

My first instinct was the same as many of you - that the OP is unskilled and was actually *turning* the car left and right while the stability control system obediently granted his wishes.

But then I saw this video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/rolt09

I've never seen a modern car do that even with the baldest of tires, and believe me, I've tried.
So I wonder if this could actually be a thing? Tesla's rear axle regen is much stronger at high speeds than any modern manual transmission car I've driven and while their traction control is vastly better than most fossil cars, the stability control is largely conventional. Therefore it's conceivable that the Tesla could be much worse at handling this type of tire/rain/driver scenario than most other brands.

Starts on a bridge. I wonder if there was ice.
Scary in any event.

 

[dmurphy]

Checking in from the east coast, where rain, snow, sleet, hail and ice are all a way of life.

I don't say this to be mean, but driving in inclement weather is part of operating a vehicle safely. This isn't a Model 3 specific item, but part of the general knowledge of driving.

Now, that said - there IS a phenomenon which may be at play here. During long spells without rain, highways tend to collect dripping oil and other lubricants from the tens of thousands of ICE vehicles that pass over them daily. When that first rain does happen after a dry spell, roads can be exceptionally slick - not just from the water, but from those lubricants coating the road surface. This is *especially* prevalent when that first rain isn't particularly hard.

So you may very well have hydroplaned not just on water, but on ICE engine leakage. How ironic. It can be as slick as black ice.... which, given that you're in LA, I'm assuming you've never experienced. It can be heart-stopping, but learning how to drive on ice is crucial. Foot off the accelerator, don't touch the brake, and steering INTO a skid gives you the best chance of recovery.

Best of luck - it might be the jealousy in me for your almost-always-excellent weather, but I do recommend everyone take some time and learn to drive in snow and ice. It very well might save your life. Practice driving on some ice and snow until the lessons really sink in. Thanks Dad, those were AWESOME lessons when I was learning to drive.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My first instinct was the same as many of you - that the OP is unskilled and was actually *turning* the car left and right while the stability control system obediently granted his wishes.

But then I saw this video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/rolt09

I've never seen a modern car do that even with the baldest of tires, and believe me, I've tried.
So I wonder if this could actually be a thing? Tesla's rear axle regen is much stronger at high speeds than any modern manual transmission car I've driven and while their traction control is vastly better than most fossil cars, the stability control is largely conventional. Therefore it's conceivable that the Tesla could be much worse at handling this type of tire/rain/driver scenario than most other brands.

Citation required. You are saying you had a car with tires that had 50k miles on them (like the person who posted) and hit a bump/joint like that in the rain and it was not possible to hydroplane?

Pretty trivial to find other RWD cars hydroplaning even just changing lanes.

Not really seeing it's out of possibility for a car to spin out if the tires are bald hitting that expansion joint (which unsettles the car) and especially if like others say there might be more than just water there on the road. As for TC and ESC, if the tires have no traction at all (like in a hydroplane case), then it won't really do anything. Both of them relies on controlling power/braking to direct the car, and that requires at least a minimal amount of traction to really work.

Here's another one I just googled. Pothole (or other road imperfection) to unsettle the car + slippery road = spin out. You can see a bunch of cars, including modern ones (like a Cadillac SUV, a Nissan 350Z, Ford Taurus etc) and old ones (an old pickup and van) being spun out.

 

[KenC]

My first instinct was the same as many of you - that the OP is unskilled and was actually *turning* the car left and right while the stability control system obediently granted his wishes.

But then I saw this video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/rolt09

I've never seen a modern car do that even with the baldest of tires, and believe me, I've tried.
So I wonder if this could actually be a thing? Tesla's rear axle regen is much stronger at high speeds than any modern manual transmission car I've driven and while their traction control is vastly better than most fossil cars, the stability control is largely conventional. Therefore it's conceivable that the Tesla could be much worse at handling this type of tire/rain/driver scenario than most other brands.

50k on bald tires, wet roads, road surface changes from asphalt to concrete, expansion joints, fishtailing may happen. The OP did not sound at all experienced enough to check their tires, so how are they experienced enough to know how fast to drive in less-than-optimal conditions, or how to handle the car in that situation? Strangely, the OP posted about 5 pictures, with only one blurry image of the tires.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

My first instinct was the same as many of you - that the OP is unskilled and was actually *turning* the car left and right while the stability control system obediently granted his wishes.

But then I saw this video:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/rolt09

I've never seen a modern car do that even with the baldest of tires, and believe me, I've tried.
So I wonder if this could actually be a thing? Tesla's rear axle regen is much stronger at high speeds than any modern manual transmission car I've driven and while their traction control is vastly better than most fossil cars, the stability control is largely conventional. Therefore it's conceivable that the Tesla could be much worse at handling this type of tire/rain/driver scenario than most other brands.

The stability control on a Model 3 is actually quite sophisticated when compared to other modern cars. Having been on a skid pan many times with several Model 3s on various tyres, I'm talking from experience when I say it is much better than most cars of its type in the cold/wet and standing water.
What we can see in that video is that the driver over corrects the initial oversteer, so again, driver input is a contributing factor.

 

[gearchruncher]

The stability control on a Model 3 is actually quite sophisticated when compared to other modern cars. Having been on a skid pan many times with several Model 3s on various tyres, I'm talking from experience when I say it is much better than most cars of its type in the cold/wet and standing water.

As someone that has raced a Model 3 in the rain and dry quite a bit, I'm not sure I agree the SC is more sophisticated. It's the same grab a brake on one wheel to correct the rotation kind of system as all others, which is pretty simple and limited. It's not like the Model 3 grabs the steering wheel and steers for you (even though it could!) or can apply positive torque vectoring at the wheels. I've never noticed the Model 3 add power which would kind of be the next amazing step in stability control.

Even in track mode, the Model 3 doesn't have control anything like a modern Ferrari that just lets you maintain a slip angle in their drift mode.

My impression has always been that what really helps the Model 3 is the amazing traction control, which limits how "out of sorts" the car gets due to excess power, which means the SC has less work to do, and of course the SC can kill power very quickly due to the high torque control bandwidth of an EV.