Has Model S quality improved?

[cucubits]

The Model S is totally unimpressive compared with the Model 3 in terms of design and build quality. For example, the Model S still uses the same tail lights w/ discreet LEDs from 2013 versus the modern LED light pipes in the Model X and Model 3. Model S has the worst headlights of all three cars, rated "poor" after extensive IIHS testing. I recently test drove a Model S P100D, the steering rack vibrated tremendously with the A/C running. This is a vehicle Tesla uses to sell customers on the brand and in 5 minutes I could tell it was subpar compared to almost any other manufactured vehicle.

Tesla's priorities are screwed up, in my opinion. They are more focused on video streaming and in-car game play than they are with things that matter to the majority of consumers. You know, little things like a steering rack that doesn't shake. I was all in on Tesla 6 years ago, a few years before Elon Musk completely lost his mind. Service quality has declined substantially since the early days to the point where Tesla is denying legitimate warranty items and forcing owners to go to arbitration or file lawsuits.

If I were in the market for an EV and had north of $80,000 to spend, I would certainly wait for the Mercedes EQC. My next EV will very likely not be a Tesla, and this coming from one of their biggest fanboys a few years ago. Tesla suffers from extremely poor corporate leadership resulting in poor execution across the board.

This is pretty much what I noticed too. If I had new Model S budget, I'd be driving an e-tron now.

 

[vexige]

And yet, you bought one . . . .

I certainly did... Cars are my passion. But again, if I only knew six months ago what I know now...

 

[Fleer]

Tesla cant keep up with this superior german fit and finish:

 

[BulldogsRus]

Lol, ok you win......if it's on the interwebz it is in fact 100% true no need to look elsewhere or do any other research or use your own personal experience or conversations with actual tesla owners....pointless

...because there are TONS of wait for it....ACTUAL TESLA OWNERS right on this very site, along with on Youtube verifying exactly what I've claimed! They aren't just a "few", it is one of the major complaints w/Tesla! But hey, why listen to me, instead let's here from the guy that actually CREATED Tesla:

How Musk is Trying to Address Tesla's Service Issues - Market Realist

Elon Musk spends a lot of time talking to Tesla owners on Twitter, but the company's stores are terrible at responding to customers

 

[BulldogsRus]

And yet, you bought one . . . .

There is such a thing as "buyer's remorse" you know.

 

[BulldogsRus]

Completely agree that tesla does indeed have issues...my main point is and will continue to be that ALL manufacturers have issues so to come on here or any other forum for that matter and say that a certain car brand has issues and to be blind to the other brands issues is lame.

Because their issues are unheard in this day and age for a company selling $40-120k cars, like horrible panel gaps, refusing free test drives, LOOONG wait times for accident repairs, complaints of no one either answering phones or returning calls/providing timely updates, etc. This isn't one random dealership, you see the same types of complaints nationwide to the point that many here pray they don't ever need service.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

So you sat in and drove 1 tesla? Cool! Have fun with your Mercedes EV, that is if you consider slower being fun.

In all seriousness though. You formed your opinion from one car? Did it ever occur to you the reason you may have noticed the ac vibration is because there is no vibration from an engine? Was the one you sat in a new raven build?

I formed my opinion after over 20 service center visits with my 2013 Model S and driving every vintage of Model S from 2013 through 2019 as a loaner car. Driving Tesla's "test drive vehicle" was the cherry on the cake, so to speak, because that is the vehicle Tesla uses to impress people. Is that enough for you, Tesla Fanboy?

What does the new Raven build have to do with anything? Does the new Raven build negate all of Tesla's insane quality and manufacturing problems they've had over the years, and continue to have? One of my club's Model 3 owners took delivery of a Model 3 that had unpainted door jams. Another has headliner panels inside the vehicle spontaneously falling off.

That's just where Tesla starts screwing you... Wait until you get 20% of your range removed when Tesla deems it necessary to "improve the longevity of your battery" as it did here:

Tesla owner lawsuit claims software update fraudulently cut battery capacity - Reuters

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Tesla is beyond defending at this point.

 

[PWlakewood]

...because there are TONS of wait for it....ACTUAL TESLA OWNERS right on this very site, along with on Youtube verifying exactly what I've claimed! They aren't just a "few", it is one of the major complaints w/Tesla! But hey, why listen to me, instead let's here from the guy that actually CREATED Tesla:

How Musk is Trying to Address Tesla's Service Issues - Market Realist

Elon Musk spends a lot of time talking to Tesla owners on Twitter, but the company's stores are terrible at responding to customers

I have never once said Tesla or any other car manufacturer is perfect. A " few" complaints, as you put it whether on YouTube or any other source does not equal a majority. To say that brand x is better than brand y will always come down to personal opinion and that seems to be a common theme for the so called tesla haters or FUD spreaders. Give me a car that has more ev range and better performance than what is currently only offered and will only be offered for the near and far future by tesla and I would consider it as I'm not tied one brand. If all the issues were in fact as wide spread as you are eluding to please explain how Tesla keeps selling these heaping piles of dookie. Surely potential customers have been informed as to the doom and headache they are facing by purchasing a Tesla product.

 

[cucubits]

If all the issues were in fact as wide spread as you are eluding to please explain how Tesla keeps selling these heaping piles of dookie

Simple answer. People are easily impressed with power and blinded by Tesla's range which is almost close to ICE cars now. So much that most are willing to overlook a lot of problems and questionable design choices. Heck I've been crying about this for a while and I still might get a Model 3.

 

[AWDtsla]

Personal experience - no. Regrets about getting rid of my 2015. Have had service appoints scheduled since I picked up the car in June, no end in sight. I currently have 7 outstanding issues, all of which have been present since delivery. Compare to my 2015 where the only initial quality issue was the paint - which was fixed by Tesla using a professional detailer to wetsand/buff out the clear coat.

At least none of them have made the car undrivable (so far).

 

[SO16]

For Tesla to be expected to have the support infrastructure the same as century old companies is asking for a bit much.

Yes it’s painful for more than a few. Yes Tesla needs to do better. Tesla is at least adding service centers and building out their support system. Other companies are going to find themselves cutting back and/or filing for bankruptcy in the next decade.

 

[BulldogsRus]

So have you made your decision yet?

You state “was in the market”.

I am holding off for now, I'm not sure the Y would be large enough (have an X5) and since I have a BMW 3er cabrio, to trade that in I'd lose the droptop option in Summers here. I was looking forward to the X/S refreshes to change my mind, but with that backburnered I'm not sure I wan't to spend almost $100k on something that IMO is starting to look long in the tooth. I've been a member on multiple Lexus, BMW and Benz boards and honestly haven't seen the level of complaints w/regards to multiple issues (many happening at once). It seems like Teslas are taken in with a list of issues, then service either has the wrong info/parts, there are waits w/no loaners although promised, then more headaches. In my experience, it would usually at best be a repair and I'd wait in a nice lounge w/food, etc. Tesla seems to be run by kids who don't really have an interest in helping you, which concerns me.

 

[SO16]

Simple answer. People are easily impressed with power and blinded by Tesla's range which is almost close to ICE cars now. So much that most are willing to overlook a lot of problems and questionable design choices. Heck I've been crying about this for a while and I still might get a Model 3.

Correct. I am willing to deal with a bit more pain in the service area in order to drive my Tesla. I knew going into this that living in Michigan will be an issue with a Tesla. But If I was driving a gas car or an EV from another manufacturer with less performance and benefits, I’d be looking to sell my car.

 

[BulldogsRus]

I have never once said Tesla or any other car manufacturer is perfect. A " few" complaints, as you put it whether on YouTube or any other source does not equal a majority. To say that brand x is better than brand y will always come down to personal opinion and that seems to be a common theme for the so called tesla haters or FUD spreaders. Give me a car that has more ev range and better performance than what is currently only offered and will only be offered for the near and far future by tesla and I would consider it as I'm not tied one brand. If all the issues were in fact as wide spread as you are eluding to please explain how Tesla keeps selling these heaping piles of dookie. Surely potential customers have been informed as to the doom and headache they are facing by purchasing a Tesla product.

Because it is an entirely new technology, do you think if they sold ICE cars with the rampant issues (YES, there aren't a few but TONS of supported articles, reviews and owner complaints!) listed here they would be selling these cars at these prices?!

Nope.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I have never once said Tesla or any other car manufacturer is perfect. A " few" complaints, as you put it whether on YouTube or any other source does not equal a majority. To say that brand x is better than brand y will always come down to personal opinion and that seems to be a common theme for the so called tesla haters or FUD spreaders. Give me a car that has more ev range and better performance than what is currently only offered and will only be offered for the near and far future by tesla and I would consider it as I'm not tied one brand. If all the issues were in fact as wide spread as you are eluding to please explain how Tesla keeps selling these heaping piles of dookie. Surely potential customers have been informed as to the doom and headache they are facing by purchasing a Tesla product.

Look at Model S/X sales—they've done a deep dive off a cliff to a point where Musk said Tesla will not be spending many resources on that line moving forward. This doesn't happen in a vacuum.

There are over 1,500 owners in my group so I am familiar with most of the issues. I hear about them all the time. Owning a Tesla is like suffering death by a thousand cuts. It's not about the one thing. It's about the 25 different things that add up to a lousy experience. Especially now that service quality has declined to below sea level. Since John McNeil's departure and Musk's takeover of service, we have seen nothing but precipitous declines in customer service and outright warranty denials for legitimate service issues forcing owners to go to arbitration or file lawsuits.

Back on topic... No, based on my first hand experience and that of many others who have shared with me, Model S quality has not improved materially in the areas that matter most to consumers: Initial quality, fit and finish, and reliability.

 

[PWlakewood]

I formed my opinion after over 20 service center visits with my 2013 Model S and driving every vintage of Model S from 2013 through 2019 as a loaner car. Driving Tesla's "test drive vehicle" was the cherry on the cake, so to speak, because that is the vehicle Tesla uses to impress people. Is that enough for you, Tesla Fanboy?

What does the new Raven build have to do with anything? Does the new Raven build negate all of Tesla's insane quality and manufacturing problems they've had over the years, and continue to have? One of my club's Model 3 owners took delivery of a Model 3 that had unpainted door jams. Another has headliner panels inside the vehicle spontaneously falling off.

That's just where Tesla starts screwing you... Wait until you get 20% of your range removed when Tesla deems it necessary to "improve the longevity of your battery" as it did here:

Tesla owner lawsuit claims software update fraudulently cut battery capacity - Reuters

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Tesla is beyond defending at this point.

Lol. Ok sure you hate tesla we all get it. You win! Point proven. Your experience and expectations are what everyone should expect. I concede. Were all suckers for buying tesla vehicles. Shame on us.

You can type what you want and call people names all you want but the fact remains tesla is still around, still selling cars, still stealing customers from all the inferior competition and they will continue to do it and you can whine and stomp your feet even louder and it wont stop tesla.

Good luck with your perfect, flawless, issueless, slower, less rangier, whatever it is you get.

 

[SO16]

I am holding off for now, I'm not sure the Y would be large enough (have an X5) and since I have a BMW 3er cabrio, to trade that in I'd lose the droptop option in Summers here. I was looking forward to the X/S refreshes to change my mind, but with that backburnered I'm not sure I wan't to spend almost $100k on something that IMO is starting to look long in the tooth. I've been a member on multiple Lexus, BMW and Benz boards and honestly haven't seen the level of complaints w/regards to multiple issues (many happening at once). It seems like Teslas are taken in with a list of issues, then service either has the wrong info/parts, there are waits w/no loaners although promised, then more headaches. In my experience, it would usually at best be a repair and I'd wait in a nice lounge w/food, etc. Tesla seems to be run by kids who don't really have an interest in helping you, which concerns me.

I guess I don’t understand the “long in the tooth” argument. Everyone that gets into my Model S says it’s like a spaceship. When I look at other cars at car shows, the new models even seem antiquated. But to each their own. I can see possibly not upgrading to a newer model S from a Model S you might already own for that reason. But if new to a Tesla, then I don’t get the comment. It’s so different than anything else.

 

[PWlakewood]

Because it is an entirely new technology, do you think if they sold ICE cars with the rampant issues (YES, there aren't a few but TONS of supported articles, reviews and owner complaints!) listed here they would be selling these cars at these prices?!

Nope.

So you think other car manufacturers don't have tons of complaints and continue to sell cars or trucks. I would list all the recalls from all the various car manufacturers but alas I don't have the time and it would make TMC crash and most likely the whole entire interwebz would come to a halt when all that data is qued up.

 

[PWlakewood]

Look at Model S/X sales—they've done a deep dive off a cliff to a point where Musk said Tesla will not be spending many resources on that line moving forward. This doesn't happen in a vacuum.

There are over 1,500 owners in my group so I am familiar with most of the issues. I hear about them all the time. Owning a Tesla is like suffering death by a thousand cuts. It's not about the one thing. It's about the 25 different things that add up to a lousy experience. Especially now that service quality has declined to below sea level. Since John McNeil's departure and Musk's takeover of service, we have seen nothing but precipitous declines in customer service and outright warranty denials for legitimate service issues forcing owners to go to arbitration or file lawsuits.

Back on topic... No, based on my first hand experience and that of many others who have shared with me, Model S quality has not improved materially in the areas that matter most to consumers: Initial quality, fit and finish, and reliability.

Do you think other cars don't have issues. Of course everyone can find something they dont like or is wrong with their car but that's not just tesla, its every car on the road.

 

[BulldogsRus]

So you think other car manufacturers don't have tons of complaints and continue to sell cars or trucks. I would list all the recalls from all the various car manufacturers but alas I don't have the time and it would make TMC crash and most likely the whole entire interwebz would come to a halt when all that data is qued up.

Recalls are an admission of a flaw in the vehicle...should I mention all of the yellow band panels replaced knowingly failing in a matter of months? Then being told there isn't a fix and they would start charging people to replace them?

And no, most other car companies like the ones I mentioned (BMW, Benz, Lexus) aren't known or accused of shoddy quality on delivery, subpar materials at luxury pricing, or unresponsive customer service to the point that their CEO is forced to acknowledge and attempt to make changes with how they treat clients...only to lay off 3000 customer service people.