Has Model S quality improved?

[Ofarlig]

Well from the early models it has improved a lot, tried multiple S from 2015 and all of them were really loud. I read that they added a lot of sound insulation in 2016 sometime so that makes sense I guess. Fit and finish of panels seems to be better as well.

But in other areas they seem to not improve or get worse like the screens. Basically they seem to improve over time but have a long way to go still.

 

[MountainRatMat]

I honestly think that the Tesla business model of eliminating human contact from the car buying equation is not a good one. I understand that people younger than me disagree with that.

Not sure what your definition of "younger" is but I am 38 for context.

I 100% disagree with you. I've bought 5 cars but every single time I couldn't stand talking to the salesmen. In every case I had done my research and knew more about the car when I walked in the door than the salesman. Also, in every case I was told incorrect information about the car or when I asked a question the salesman didn't know. Really, you don't know the size of the engine on the car you are selling me?

Also, the biggest problem with direct contact is TIME. The Tesla took me 5 minutes to buy online, 10 min of paperwork for my loan and approvals online, and under 30 min to pick up. The fastest ever purchase of my previous cars was 1.5 hours and that was only because I had a connection and the dealer had my car ready when I arrived. I still had to go through the creepy finance dude that tried to sell me a car alarm, under coating, paint coating, seat special spray, and the oxygen inside the car so I wouldn't suffocate.

 

[Petrocelli]

Perhaps not on that forum but issues can be found along with recalls.

Mercedes-Benz C300 Top 4 Issues

10 recalls for 2017 Model.

2017 Mercedes-Benz C-Class Reliability - Consumer Reports

6 recalls for 2019 model.

2019 Mercedes-Benz C-Class Reliability - Consumer Reports

What’s sad is that often I see posts from non Tesla owners (current or future), bashing Tesla. Sure seems to happen more against Tesla than any other brand.

All cars have problems from time to time. In fact, about two days ago, I opened my trunk, and heard a squeaking spring that sounded like a spring from the Acme Corporation that Wiley Coyote would use. (Young folks, please Google that.) It made a sound that I can only describe as "BOING!" But here's what I know: I'll call Mercedes, makes an appointment for the next day, drop the car off, have an espresso and a doughnut, get a free Uber to my office 10 minutes away, get a free Uber back,and get a free car wash.

As for occasional recalls, I guess they happen. I do recall having something replaced during a service visit because of a recall, but can't remember what it is. But the fact remains that the Mercedes forum does not have dozens of posts about yellow screens, panel gaps, odors from the air conditioning units, or roofs cracking.

Teslas seem to have more problems than average. If they had better service, I would have overlooked many of the problems.

 

[PWlakewood]

Yeah ok there, next thing you are going to tell us is how quiet your wheels are when you turn your steering when stationary or going slow..

They squeak on my garage floor but no noticeable sound on pavement concrete or otherwise. So you dont believe me? Lol. Of course you dont.

If you live in Washington state I will gladly show you my S and you can see/hear for yourself. I'm confident I will have no takers as they will have convenient excuses.

 

[SO16]

If they had better service,

I really don’t think Tesla will have that level of Mercedes service for quite some time....if ever again.

I rank the daily enjoyment of my car as much more important than the (hopefully infrequent) service level. But that’s me.

 

[Petrocelli]

I rank the daily enjoyment of my car as much more important than the (hopefully infrequent) service level.

Me too.

 

[Petrocelli]

Not sure what your definition of "younger" is but I am 38 for context.

I 100% disagree with you. I've bought 5 cars but every single time I couldn't stand talking to the salesmen.

My experience is different because I have leased 8 Mercedes from the same salesman. Our "negotiation" took about 20-25 minutes, most of which was him walking to his manager's office and back. Moreover, he knows me, and knew I was serious about getting a Tesla. When he realized that, he gave me a car that should lease for around $750 a month for $615. It was an offer I couldn't refuse.

As for other salesman, I agree with you. But they may be a necessary evil. In any event, as a lawyer I negotiate for a living, and can usually run rings around them.

 

[Mhoepfin]

2015 85D, perfect in every way. LOL at that video a few pages back with the guy worried about a few mm panel gap, life’s too short, just drive.

 

[Lhshockey24]

My lease on my 2016 MS 75 is coming to an end. I had a weird rattle in a strut they fixed and the headlights have both been replaced. Also had to recalibrate the AP camera.

I’m pretty sure I’m going to buy a new MS. A number of improvements in the new ones over the 2016s.

But like the OP, can anyone speak to changes in quality or general performance (not necessarily range or 0-60 times, but maybe handling with the air suspension etc) that I might not know about with respect to the 2016s? I know one big change is going to be going from rwd to awd.

A lot of petty arguing, but I don’t see anyone that has directly answered your question.

I’m driving an August 2019 built Model S. My last MS was built in Sept 2017. The adaptive suspension is a dream. I’ve told my kids a couple of times on the freeway, “hold on big bump coming” and then we feel nothing. I can put the suspension in sport when I’m just zipping around town and it feels much more connected and less floaty.
AWD will be a delightful change as well. I think the car feels very well planted at all times. It feels much more solid than my 2017. PM me if you want more specific feedback. If you can, go test drive one for a day if they allow that near you.

 

[_jal_]

A lot of petty arguing, but I don’t see anyone that has directly answered your question.

I’m driving an August 2019 built Model S. My last MS was built in Sept 2017. The adaptive suspension is a dream. I’ve told my kids a couple of times on the freeway, “hold on big bump coming” and then we feel nothing. I can put the suspension in sport when I’m just zipping around town and it feels much more connected and less floaty.
AWD will be a delightful change as well. I think the car feels very well planted at all times. It feels much more solid than my 2017. PM me if you want more specific feedback. If you can, go test drive one for a day if they allow that near you.

Thanks for the info. I am really happy with my car, but I have regretted not getting the air suspension that was available at the time. The springs are fine, but I do feel like the ring a little bit when taking hard bumps.

What do you think of the textile seats? I have the leather which I always thought was OK at best

 

[Big Toys]

Well documented on this forum is not a good representation of ALL tesla owners.....its known that forums like TMC are filled with people who want to vent frustration but that does not equate to a majority of owners.

As stated before, this forum is only for those motivated enough to come here. However, if we acknowledge that customer service is not a priority for Tesla, it is logical to predict with high certainty that Tesla owners not on this forum experience the same frustrations expressed here. How many Teslas on the road? About 500,000. If only 1% have issues, that's 5000 customers that interact with CS issues. Given known issues such as screen yellowing, the % is likely higher. Yet, here are the few that bother to post. Hey, maybe Elon will take us back to the 90's and remind us that losing money IS the new economy. Remember that brilliance?

 

[Big Toys]

Not sure what your definition of "younger" is but I am 38 for context.

I 100% disagree with you. I've bought 5 cars but every single time I couldn't stand talking to the salesmen. In every case I had done my research and knew more about the car when I walked in the door than the salesman. Also, in every case I was told incorrect information about the car or when I asked a question the salesman didn't know. Really, you don't know the size of the engine on the car you are selling me?

Also, the biggest problem with direct contact is TIME. The Tesla took me 5 minutes to buy online, 10 min of paperwork for my loan and approvals online, and under 30 min to pick up. The fastest ever purchase of my previous cars was 1.5 hours and that was only because I had a connection and the dealer had my car ready when I arrived. I still had to go through the creepy finance dude that tried to sell me a car alarm, under coating, paint coating, seat special spray, and the oxygen inside the car so I wouldn't suffocate.

It's a good think aircraft don't fly with minimal human interaction. Well, they can and do. But, you don't pay the pilot to fly the plane. You pay him/her to know what to do when the plane won't fly or save itself. Elon learned a similar lesson last year when he almost tanked the company.

 

[MountainRatMat]

It's a good think aircraft don't fly with minimal human interaction. Well, they can and do. But, you don't pay the pilot to fly the plane. You pay him/her to know what to do when the plane won't fly or save itself. Elon learned a similar lesson last year when he almost tanked the company.

If you are equating a pilot of an airplane to a car salesman then I am a very scared right now.

 

[Mediocrates]

That to me is the ability to transport itself from point A to point B. Particularly the trustworthy part. Now consistently well is subject to a lot of interpretation. But there is nothing erroneous about reliability meaning the car runs everyday. Now that may not fit with your idea of reliability but it is a perfectly reasonable definition.

Consider that your "perfectly reasonable" definition necessarily allows for the doors to fall off during every drive and not affect any measure of reliability.

Your confusion is in considering what is necessary versus what is sufficient. If you wish further explanation of this matter, contact me privately.

Complain about anecdotes and then respond with one. Funny.

The summation of anecdotes is not data/evidence. This is a statement of proper analysis.

I also included two anecdotes, not one.

A little more background on those “reliability” surveys.

The Great Tesla Model 3 Consumer Reports Reliability Kerfuffle | CleanTechnica

In 2018, Tesla ranked 27 out of 29 automakers for vehicle reliability, per Consumer Reports. This was down 6 positions from the 2017 reliability ranking, where Tesla was 21 out of 29, which was still well below average. Given that Consumer Reports releases their rankings in October and Tesla delivered only about 200 Model 3 vehicles prior to that in 2017, the Model 3 had essentially nothing to do with the 2017 ranking.

In 2018, the Model 3, specifically, was given a measure of "average" reliability (per the article I posted). If all Tesla vehicles amounted to a ranking of 27 of 29, the Model 3 was not responsible for reducing the overall reliability rating. If Model 3 reliability data points were removed, the reliability for Tesla as a whole would have been even lower.

 

[SO16]

also included two anecdotes, not one.

Oh...much better.

 

[Lhshockey24]

Thanks for the info. I am really happy with my car, but I have regretted not getting the air suspension that was available at the time. The springs are fine, but I do feel like the ring a little bit when taking hard bumps.

What do you think of the textile seats? I have the leather which I always thought was OK at best

All of the loaners I’ve had were textile seats. They all were very comfy, but picked up all the smells from any previous rental so they just seemed nasty to me. The vegan leather is so easy to clean and feels very luxurious and soft. Our X has real leather and it’s stiff and slippery.

 

[D.E.]

If you're used to German build quality / materials , you'll probably be disappointed. I check out new Teslas periodically (probably a few times a year), and, without trying, I find lots of stuff that would irritate me as an owner. This guy (I think he's Swiss) also had a German car (audi), bought a new Model s but was ultimately annoyed by the build quality issues. Check out his video below where he highlights some issues that bother him. Some people will look at this and roll their eyes, but some of us do get really annoyed by this type of stuff. If you roll your eyes, then go ahead and buy one!

I’ve had BMWs, two of them. They were both fairly good cars. One was an automatic transmission car, they come with a “lifetime fill” of transmission fluid. That doesn’t seem right, I’ve had many cars with automatic transmissions and they all needed periodic servicing. The next was a 330cic, it was nice, peppy, tight. I think it was the last year that had an oil dipstick. After then if you needed to find out the oil level, you needed to drain the oil out, measure it, then put it back if you’re so inclined. There was a sensor if the oil was low. The gauges were lobotomized, they read the middle of normal unless whatever they were measuring was way too high or way too low. The position of the needle didn’t change as things changed, they just read middle of normal. The 540 had a speedometer that read 10 MPH high. The car was well engineered, but how do you bungle a speedometer, that’s one of the things a driver really needs.

I liked the BMWs, they were rattle free and hugged the road well. That transmission bothered me. That car is still in the family. The other was good, but I wouldn’t buy a car that uses oil, without a way to measure it.

Now I can get any car I want. I have a Tesla S. I love the car. I don’t miss the BMWs. I know BMWs are nice.

You cannot compare the Tesla and BMW if you don’t have experience with the Tesla. Test drives are OK. I can’t imagine what it is that would irritate you as an owner but if you are going into this looking for reasons not to like it, well that’s OK, just don’t get one.

I’m not sure why you are here if you don’t like the car, and you don’t plan to ever like the car. You’re a BMW man, that’s fine. But why aren’t you on the BMW sites instead of the Tesla site? If it’s to tell owners that you’ve been on test drives, find their cars irritating, and wouldn’t buy one. Well, thanks for your input.

I just think you’re missing it. I don’t feel chided by your criticism, I just feel mildly sympathetic.

 

[cucubits]

I guess for those (of us) who want a better quality EV than Tesla is currently offering, it's easy to get in a negative mindset and vent (sometimes more than needed) towards Tesla for being the only proper player around.

If I do get an ICE car now, even if it's overall better built and has more features than a Tesla, I'd still feel like going almost backwards. Waiting for a better EV is going to take too long. I'd say end of 2020 will be starting to get interesting.

*question on the above post: is this true? New BMWs don't have an engine oil dipstick?

 

[_jal_]

The vegan leather is so easy to clean and feels very luxurious and soft.

My S has the slippery leather. My bro’s X has textile. For some reason I thought they were all textile bc the website doesn’t say textile or leather anywhere. So they’re pleather Good to know

 

[shellderp]

They've made a lot of gradual improvements over time to the interior. I've had no problems with interior quality and everyone thinks it looks and feels awesome. I'd say my bigger issue with the "quality" of this car is software bugs. A few times I've had full crashes or fail to start up and it's getting a little frustrating, it sure would be embarrassing if anyone was in the car at the time. Still the best car ever though.