TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Has Model S quality improved?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Northern Goat, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. STxTesla

    STxTesla Sig #1278

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    #161 STxTesla, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
    I am one of the original Model S owners. I received my Model S in December, 2012 and thought that I would pitch in my two cents. I never had any problems with Tesla service and the only comment that I can make about improvement....well, it certainly has improved since the 2012 models with auto-pilot and all. I can't go into any other discussion regarding whether the car has improved but I will be able to make some comments soon. I just ordered a new Model S and should receive it soon. By the way, from my experience with owning a Tesla Model S, it is constantly improving with the frequent software updates. Good luck in your decision.




     
    • Like x 4
  2. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Interesting, I have never seen a Model S with a DRL issue. Maybe people in NC are better about getting these things fixed quickly?
     
  3. Mediocrates

    Mediocrates Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    That's not really true, and I think you mean dealerships rather than car companies. Unlike Tesla, a consumer does not buy a vehicle directly from the manufacturer (Lexus/Audi/BMW/etc.), they purchase them from dealerships. Dealerships don't typically sell a new vehicle at a loss, it's just a more complex (and often concealed) set of factors that determine what the dealership cost is for a vehicle. Any vehicle sold at MSRP is very profitable. Even a vehicle sold at "invoice" (the amount the dealership paid the manufacturer for the vehicle) is generally still profitable (due to things built into the "invoice" price), and there can often be additional per-vehicle manufacturer-to-dealer incentives after sale and overall sales threshold incentives.

    Yes, dealerships do generate revenue from many other peripheral means (consumer financing, aftermarket items, service, etc.), but they are typically still making profit on new vehicle sales.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. _jal_

    _jal_ Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2016
    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    Chicago
    Just as a PSA, this is a very real issue Late 2016 / Early 2017 S Owners: How Are Your Daytime Running Lights Holding Up?. Nobody knows why it happens, but it totally happens and unless you see it, there's no signal it is happening. Further, the only repair is total headlight replacement which is $1,500. It's covered under warranty, but you have to catch it. And it isn't always just cosmetic. When my passenger side went out, it prevented me from using my turn signal so that was kind of an annoying.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Mike Robinson

    Mike Robinson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Yessir, they are covered by warranty
     
  6. Hugh-SG

    Hugh-SG Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2019
    Messages:
    35
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    #166 Hugh-SG, Sep 9, 2019 at 11:31 AM
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019 at 11:39 AM
    Yes it is Very impressive.

    I am not sure what you mean by "perks and features I am missing" ...

    So far I have noted the following perks and features...

    1... Better sound system,
    2... more comfortable seats with adjustable lumbar support for front row seats,
    3... delightfully easy to use AC,
    4... in car voice command "hands free" mobile telephone calling,
    5... voice command navigation system,

    6... brilliant driver assist - adaptive cruise control,
    7... very smooth lane changes in ACC and in NoAP,
    8... a collision avoidance system that warns me of danger and takes action to protect me,
    9... automatic emergency braking that will do its best to stop the car should traffic in front of the car of the car in front of me sudden come to a full stop,
    10... ambient interior lighting at night,

    11... adaptive brightness for dashboard and center console that self dim or brighten as needed,
    12.. USB ports for mobile device recharging for all three rows of seats,
    13.. seat heaters for all seats,
    14.. seat coolers for front row seats,
    15.. auto dimming side view mirrors that auto darken when a car with bright head lamps comes up behind you at night,

    16.. cup holders for all seats, with a pair of adjustable size secondary cup holders for the front row seats in the center console,
    17.. auto lowering suspension, that decreases drag at motorway speeds and improves high speed handling,
    18.. the ability to raise the suspension up to a "very high" setting, reducing the chance of underside damage from over sized speed bumps or driving off road,
    19.. ability to tow up to a 5,000 pound trailer
    20.. ability to travel home with take away food stored in the Front Trunk, thus not smelling up the whole car,

    21.. adaptive head lights that point into the direction you are turning, increasing the chance of you seeing and avoiding a hazard that would other wise be hidden at night with normal car head lamps,
    22.. adaptive traction control on slippery surfaces that varies the torque between the front and rear drive trains as they are independent and not inter connected like old fashioned ICE cars,
    23.. mobile service tech's coming to your home to fix minor problems right in your own garage,
    24.. over the air software updates that in any other car would cost you an expensive visit to a dealership,
    25.. no hard sell, up sell from any Tesla employee or manager I have dealt with,

    26.. a music streaming service that can bring in radio stations from all over the world,
    27.. an in console video game system to entertain yourself with when you are parked somewhere awaiting someone or whilst recharging to continue your road trip,
    28.. after 8,000 driven km's since April, a $1,600 Cdn dollars savings in petrol Not purchased, over the same trips made with my old '88 4-Runner last year,
    29.. don't need an oil change every six months,
    30.. 1,425 less moving parts in the power plant, drastically reducing what could break or go wrong over the next 30 years of ownership,

    31.. and finally a perfect 5.0 safety rating in all category's of safety testing performed by non aligned Gov't Operated Crash Testing Facility, which means I am driving what is currently the safest car in the world.

    So what perks am I missing please?

    Thank you for your time and trouble,
    Kindest regards,
    Hugh-SG

    Full disclosure: I have never been an employee of Tesla Motors and do not own any Tesla Stock.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
    • Love x 1
  7. cucubits

    cucubits Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    TX
    #167 cucubits, Sep 9, 2019 at 12:28 PM
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019 at 12:48 PM
    "Hugh-SG, post: 3999623, member: 105861":Yes it is Very impressive.



    I am not sure what you mean by "perks and features I am missing" ...

    So far I have noted the following perks and features...

    1... Better sound system, Compared to the 4-runner? Come on, this is valid for ANY other new car.
    2... more comfortable seats with adjustable lumbar support for front row seats, Same, valid for any new car, nothing Tesla specific here
    3... delightfully easy to use AC, You must be joking. Poking on a touchscreen is easier than a nice button you learn to use without looking?
    4... in car voice command "hands free" mobile telephone calling, Again, any new car has this, nothing impressive here.
    5... voice command navigation system,

    6... brilliant driver assist - adaptive cruise control, Radar cruise is present in cars much much cheaper and works just as well if not better
    7... very smooth lane changes in ACC and in NoAP,
    8... a collision avoidance system that warns me of danger and takes action to protect me, This is one which I'd say is worse than other cars, I'll explain below.
    9... automatic emergency braking that will do its best to stop the car should traffic in front of the car of the car in front of me sudden come to a full stop, Only front AEB is present and it works exactly as in other cars. It'll brake for you only if the car in front is moving. If you come across a stationary obstacle, your tesla will happily ram into it.
    10... ambient interior lighting at night, I understand it's a big jump from the 4-runner but yes, ambient lighting is present in all other nicer ICE cars. Heck even my wife's Beetle has nice ambient lighting.

    11... adaptive brightness for dashboard and center console that self dim or brighten as needed,
    12.. USB ports for mobile device recharging for all three rows of seats, We're listing USB ports... I fear I'm going to read about "Amazing wheel nuts which hold all wheels in place" Come on man.
    13.. seat heaters for all seats,
    14.. seat coolers for front row seats Rare perk, I think it was included in the Model S only for a short time.
    15.. auto dimming side view mirrors that auto darken when a car with bright head lamps comes up behind you at night, Sorry, all nicer ICE cars have this.

    16.. cup holders for all seats, with a pair of adjustable size secondary cup holders for the front row seats in the center console, Yeey, cup holders.
    17.. auto lowering suspension, that decreases drag at motorway speeds and improves high speed handling, This is nice. I think only some of the similarly priced ICE cars have smart air suspension.
    18.. the ability to raise the suspension up to a "very high" setting, reducing the chance of underside damage from over sized speed bumps or driving off road,
    19.. ability to tow up to a 5,000 pound trailer
    20.. ability to travel home with take away food stored in the Front Trunk, thus not smelling up the whole car,

    21.. adaptive head lights that point into the direction you are turning, increasing the chance of you seeing and avoiding a hazard that would other wise be hidden at night with normal car head lamps, Sorry, I had this on my 2014 $25k Mazda3.
    22.. adaptive traction control on slippery surfaces that varies the torque between the front and rear drive trains as they are independent and not inter connected like old fashioned ICE cars, Some newer AWD ICE cars are just as smart, nothing Tesla exclusive here.
    23.. mobile service tech's coming to your home to fix minor problems right in your own garage, Yes, this is nice but the service center situation and repair times/costs when not under warranty make this perk useless.
    24.. over the air software updates that in any other car would cost you an expensive visit to a dealership, Not necessarily true. Newer ICE cars start going this too. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about OTA update which mostly installs games for the moment :)
    25.. no hard sell, up sell from any Tesla employee or manager I have dealt with, Yes, this is good. I hate going to traditional dealers so much.

    26.. a music streaming service that can bring in radio stations from all over the world, Like we can do in ANY other car with the phone connected? Ok small convenience factor that you don't need the phone anymore.
    27.. an in console video game system to entertain yourself with when you are parked somewhere awaiting someone or whilst recharging to continue your road trip, Yep, I'm sure that's extremely useful *rolleyes*
    28.. after 8,000 driven km's since April, a $1,600 Cdn dollars savings in petrol Not purchased, over the same trips made with my old '88 4-Runner last year, Not arguing with this. Fuel savings are nice if you charge at home or have free supercharging.
    29.. don't need an oil change every six months, Well, it depends how much you drive but yes, I'll give you this too.
    30.. 1,425 less moving parts in the power plant, drastically reducing what could break or go wrong over the next 30 years of ownership, Less chance and parts to break but much worse when anything does break, especially if out of warranty.

    31.. and finally a perfect 5.0 safety rating in all category's of safety testing performed by non aligned Gov't Operated Crash Testing Facility, which means I am driving what is currently the safest car in the world. New ICE cars are more or less just as safe.

    So what perks am I missing please?
    - proper blind spot monitoring. This is important because it helps a lot together with turning and looking. It doesn't make sense for Tesla to make you look in the mirror - then over the shoulder - then all the way on the center screen - then change lane ?!
    Also helps as added safety for other drivers. When I come up next to another car and I see his little mirror light turn on, I know there's a higher chance he's seen me. Nothing like this in any tesla.
    - rear cross traffic alerts. In the US everyone like to pull in parking places. Backing out is safer with RCTA. Nothing like this in any tesla.
    - HUD. Just a nice quality of life perk. Nicer ICE cars project speed and other info on the windshield for the driver to see without taking eyes off the road. Nothing like this in any tesla.
    - Rain sensor is not as good as traditional sensors used in any other cars.
    - Model 3 does not come with a keyfob and even if you buy one, it doesn't do passive entry.
    - I'm sure there's more but I'm getting tired of writing.

    So far nothing you said made me change my mind. You listed a bunch of things which apparently make tesla great but they're features and perks in any other ICE car (some at a much much cheaper price point).

    It really does show you moved from a 30 year old car to a tesla and I'm happy for you, just please don't turn into a blind fanboy.



    Thank you for your time and trouble,
    Kindest regards,
    Hugh-SG

    Full disclosure: I have never been an employee of Tesla Motors and do not own any Tesla Stock

    Full disclosure: I don't blindly hate on tesla here. I'm just doing my research, I've driven them and I may still get one. I love the idea of driving an EV and I love the instant power it can deliver. Also gas savings and being able to charge at home are indeed awesome things. I just notice the missing things, the problems, the quality issues and I've still yet to decide how much they bother me.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. SO16

    SO16 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,470
    Location:
    MI

    You have listed many things and you are right. I would love to see Tesla improve in these areas and add many of these features. Some are overrated like the HUD and blind spot monitoring. (Look over your damn shoulder, people.). I have had close calls from others not looking and then almost get sideswiped even though they had BSM.

    But you want to know what’s funny to many of us owners? Even with all the shortcomings you mention, we STILL would choose Tesla over anything else. Why? The drive, convenience and performance. Something that until you use one for a while, you will never truly appreciate. I used to hate driving. Now I look for any excuse to go for a drive.

    Yes, you will find some disgruntled people on here and if you are used to having your butt wiped by customer service, you will be disappointed. But for those that can just schedule via the app for service and order online, it’s pretty good.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Helpful x 1
  9. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    Does any Tesla actually have self-turning/self-leveling headlights?

    I had that on a very old car and miss that feature a lot.
     
  10. Mike Robinson

    Mike Robinson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    420
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    DITTO
     
  11. vexige

    vexige Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2019
    Messages:
    119
    Location:
    NJ
    This does worry me more than my both yellow screens and bad customer service. Lately I read more of the kind...
     
    • Like x 1
  12. cucubits

    cucubits Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2019
    Messages:
    468
    Location:
    TX
    I don't understand how can they make less and less money when they sell more and more Model 3s? Or has this number started stalling too?
    I guess they'll end up rushing production again, missing proper QA checks and essentially digging themselves deeper and deeper in the hole they're getting close to.

    And yeah, moving funds away from FSD development does sound bad. As soon as other car makers will start pushing out good EVs, Tesla's only real advantage will be FSD which is getting nowhere slowly as it looks now :(
     
    • Like x 1
  13. erik_k

    erik_k Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2018
    Messages:
    133
    Location:
    Meridian, MS
    Simil
    similar problem with Hondas. Our 2017 has a failing DRL, and Honda already replaced it once. I recently received a notice that Honda was extending the warranty for these DRLs. Look at the Accords with the huge chrome bar in the front grill and notice that the DRLs are probably failed along the bottom or outside of the headlights. It’s very noticeable when L/R are different but when you know what you’re looking for there are just a LOT of failed Honda DRLs out there

    Honda headlight/DRL assemblies are $1,250 or so.
     
  14. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2018
    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Los Gatos, CA
    And this is how a reputable manufacturer addresses their mistakes. Thanks for pointing that out.
     
    • Like x 4
  15. Big Toys

    Big Toys Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2019
    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    Florida
    As I've gotten older and experienced what customer service looks like at each pricepoint, it is very hard to justify this inverse relationship between what one pays for a car and the backing of the product by the manufacturer.
     
    • Like x 2
  16. SO16

    SO16 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,470
    Location:
    MI
    I don’t care about being schmoozed and sucked up to by people. I want a product that I enjoy and hopefully doesn’t need service often.

    It’s like people who become dazzled by a salesperson and then buy a crappy product. If I had to choose between the two, I’d take a crappy salesman and a better product. Of course, having great service AND great product is ideal. But I certainly put more emphasis on one over the other.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2012
    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Like Tesla with the 8 year Driveunit warranty?
     
  18. BulldogsRus

    BulldogsRus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2018
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Boston
    ??? It's your primary mode of transportation to get to work or drop kids off, or take vacations. Why do you feel you should sacrifice that all in the name of technology simply because Tesla has poor customer service 7 years later? There are countless posts here from people using the app to schedule service only to hear nothing, then are forced to call only to hear it ring and ring for hours. You think that happens at a Benz or BMW dealership??
     
  19. BulldogsRus

    BulldogsRus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2018
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Boston
    Wait, do you honestly think that all of the reports of bad customer service, unanswered complaints, long repair times, subpar quality and new cars w/defects upon delivery...only are heard about in this forum??

    Heck, that's what led me TO this forum, was to see if it was as bad as has been reported in the press!
     
    • Like x 1
  20. BulldogsRus

    BulldogsRus Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2018
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Boston
    Why are they a troll, simply because they disagree with you? They OWN a Tesla!!
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC