Has Model S quality improved?

[tls]

I really don’t think Tesla will have that level of Mercedes service for quite some time....if ever again.

I rank the daily enjoyment of my car as much more important than the (hopefully infrequent) service level. But that’s me.

 

[tls]

I get that level of service at my local SvC. Minus the espresso. But Brooklyn has somehow always been a really good shop. I bought my car at Mt. Kisco, and they were nice, albeit disorganized. Never had a problem there they wouldn't fix, but had a fair number of problems and the communication was not great.

Switched to Brooklyn for service about halfway through the warranty and they're just great. As with everything else it's about the people. Hopefully Tesla understands how excellent the Brooklyn staff are.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Having driven my friend's Model 3, I am complete enamored by the Tesla and seriously considering purchasing an new Model S.

While I think the technology and ideology of Tesla is amazing, but I am really weary of making the purchase due to all the information I read about quality issues and after purchase care.

It seems like a lot of the issues are consistent year over year for any particular Model.

So my question is, are purchasers with newer models experiencing the same issues or frequency of issues as the older models? Has Tesla improved their quality? It seems odd that a company focused on constant improvement of a vehicle would continue to have issues with say door handles year after year.

I guess what I looking for is a little comfort from actual owners that I can expect some improvement in quality and not have as many headaches as early adopters.

How long are you planning on keeping it? If you're not planning on keeping it past the warranty then I would say you have very little to worry about. I would guess the odds are you wouldn't have to deal with any reliability issues at all.

 

[darxsys]

Having driven my friend's Model 3, I am complete enamored by the Tesla and seriously considering purchasing an new Model S.

While I think the technology and ideology of Tesla is amazing, but I am really weary of making the purchase due to all the information I read about quality issues and after purchase care.

It seems like a lot of the issues are consistent year over year for any particular Model.

So my question is, are purchasers with newer models experiencing the same issues or frequency of issues as the older models? Has Tesla improved their quality? It seems odd that a company focused on constant improvement of a vehicle would continue to have issues with say door handles year after year.

I guess what I looking for is a little comfort from actual owners that I can expect some improvement in quality and not have as many headaches as early adopters.

Depends what you mean by quality. When I bought mine, I didn’t notice any issues I notice now.

Drive units, batteries and motors are top notch, no question about that. The platform is amazing. So don’t worry about that part much.

The car itself, the cabin and other things are a complete mockery. I wish you lived closer to me so I could take you around and show you all the issues. You can even see all these if you go to a Tesla store and carefully look.

Examples:
1) I’ve recently driven a Dec 2018 75D with 4k miles. The thing rattled like crazy. From everywhere.
2) I currently have a 2017 100D loaner with 23k miles, since my car is in service. Rattles way worse than my 2015. Glass roof, driver door panel, speakers, trunk. Rattles from everywhere. Squeaks. Air suspension starts literally shaking the car occasionally when I want to go from high to standard. Sometimes works fine.
3) Go and take a look at a brand new Model S in store. Open the trunk and notice terrible fitment and quality of the plastic surrounding the hatch. Notice how you can see all the welding on the sides. Open rear doors and carefully inspect the rubber along
side the the door frame. It’s horrible quality. On every single S I’ve looked at. Plastic seat trim is sad to even look at. Look at the poorly cut rubber around the windows.
4) panel gaps. I mean, those really don’t matter much, but they certainly make the car uglier if the people/machines at the factory had a particularly bad day. I’ve seen some Model S and X vehicles where panel gaps made the car look like it just got out of an accident. Especially visible on white cars.
5) Yellow screens. I mean, what a disaster. Elon just loves making stupid decisions, and this one might cost them dearly. Who needs automotive grade screens, you say? Not Tesla apparently. So yeah, if you buy one, be aware it might develop a yellow screen any day. Really makes ownership exciting. The 4k mile loaner I mentioned had a yellow screen. A car with 4k miles. Sadness.

I won’t even go into Model 3 build specifics, that car is built like a go kart. Great platform,
terrible design and build.

Overall, the build quality is pathetic. Some people care, some don’t. I do more and more so it bothers me. Go check for yourself and see if you think a car like that is worth $100k or $50k, or not. If it is, you will have fun driving it and flooring it at every single traffic light. No other car matches this. Except maybe a $150k Taycan. If it’s not worth it for you, oh well. Be aware that rattles and noises aren’t covered under warranty anymore and you need to pay diagnostic fees just to have them reproduced with a technician. No wonder, Tesla really doesn’t give a *sugar* assembling these cars and also doesn’t want to waste their scarcest resource (money) fixing “non issues” that some “unreasonable” owners point out.

 

[dannycamps]

5) Yellow screens. I mean, what a disaster. Elon just loves making stupid decisions, and this one might cost them dearly. Who needs automotive grade screens, you say? Not Tesla apparently. So yeah, if you buy one, be aware it might develop a yellow screen any day. Really makes ownership exciting. The 4k mile loaner I mentioned had a yellow screen. A car with 4k miles. Sadness.

I have you beat. The inventory 2019 Model S I purchased in June (built in January) with 400 miles on it had the screen yellowing issue. This issue is causing quite a hit to Tesla's reputation especially with its current customers.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Depends what you mean by quality. When I bought mine, I didn’t notice any issues I notice now.

Drive units, batteries and motors are top notch, no question about that. The platform is amazing. So don’t worry about that part much.

The car itself, the cabin and other things are a complete mockery. I wish you lived closer to me so I could take you around and show you all the issues. You can even see all these if you go to a Tesla store and carefully look.

Examples:
1) I’ve recently driven a Dec 2018 75D with 4k miles. The thing rattled like crazy. From everywhere.
2) I currently have a 2017 100D loaner with 23k miles, since my car is in service. Rattles way worse than my 2015. Glass roof, driver door panel, speakers, trunk. Rattles from everywhere. Squeaks. Air suspension starts literally shaking the car occasionally when I want to go from high to standard. Sometimes works fine.
3) Go and take a look at a brand new Model S in store. Open the trunk and notice terrible fitment and quality of the plastic surrounding the hatch. Notice how you can see all the welding on the sides. Open rear doors and carefully inspect the rubber along
side the the door frame. It’s horrible quality. On every single S I’ve looked at. Plastic seat trim is sad to even look at. Look at the poorly cut rubber around the windows.
4) panel gaps. I mean, those really don’t matter much, but they certainly make the car uglier if the people/machines at the factory had a particularly bad day. I’ve seen some Model S and X vehicles where panel gaps made the car look like it just got out of an accident. Especially visible on white cars.
5) Yellow screens. I mean, what a disaster. Elon just loves making stupid decisions, and this one might cost them dearly. Who needs automotive grade screens, you say? Not Tesla apparently. So yeah, if you buy one, be aware it might develop a yellow screen any day. Really makes ownership exciting. The 4k mile loaner I mentioned had a yellow screen. A car with 4k miles. Sadness.

I won’t even go into Model 3 build specifics, that car is built like a go kart. Great platform,
terrible design and build.

Overall, the build quality is pathetic. Some people care, some don’t. I do more and more so it bothers me. Go check for yourself and see if you think a car like that is worth $100k or $50k, or not. If it is, you will have fun driving it and flooring it at every single traffic light. No other car matches this. Except maybe a $150k Taycan. If it’s not worth it for you, oh well. Be aware that rattles and noises aren’t covered under warranty anymore and you need to pay diagnostic fees just to have them reproduced with a technician. No wonder, Tesla really doesn’t give a *sugar* assembling these cars and also doesn’t want to waste their scarcest resource (money) fixing “non issues” that some “unreasonable” owners point out.

To me it sounds like he's talking about a completely different car. Compared to my two Lexus and one Honda, my Tesla feels like it's way better quality. The screen yellowing and headlight problems are concerning though since they don't seem to be addressing the problems with new parts that don't have issues.

 

[darxsys]

To me it sounds like he's talking about a completely different car. Compared to my two Lexus and one Honda, my Tesla feels like it's way better quality. The screen yellowing and headlight problems are concerning though since they don't seem to be addressing the problems with new parts that don't have issues.

I was literally thinking about how someone will mention some random car and try to say that their Model S is better built. I don’t know which Lexus you own, since they can vary in price and interior quality, but overall we can all agree Lexus isn’t even close to build quality and premium feel of European cars. It lasts forever when it comes to durability, but that’s a different thing. Tesla drive train can also last forever because it was engineered amazingly, no one disputes that. That doesn’t mean it’s built well overall.

The other part of your comment: Honda. Really, are you comparing a Honda with a Model S to establish how well Model S is built? Honda Accord starts at $24k. Model S starts at $80k. If that’s a fair comparison in any world, then I am wasting my time here. Of course Model S is built better than a car costing 4x less. If it wasn’t, Tesla should have been really embarrassed and criticized for that. Are we going to start comparing Model S and Buick Regal build quality just to make Tesla look good? Model S needs to be compared to cars in its price range. Sit in an Audi A7 and be amazed at how well built it is. Then go sit in a Model S right after. Huge difference.

It seems to me that Tesla fan boys (not saying you are one) will try to spin things whatever way suits them to make Tesla look good, without any critical thinking. A $100k car needs to be built a LOT better than what Tesla gives you right now. A LOT. But then it would probably cost a lot more considering batteries are expensive. Maybe $150k would be the price of a well built premium EV (khm, Taycan, khm). There is a reason Taycan costs so much, I am sure: build quality. Materials used. Precision. As far as I am concerned, Taycan is the first COMPLETE EV. It’s got performance and it’s got build quality - even though I haven’t tried one yet, I think that’s basically a guaranteed fact. People complaining how it’s more expensive and offers .3 seconds slower acceleration are completely missing the point. Quality has a price, too. If Porsche wanted to half ass their build quality and put $10 plastic panels into the Taycan, I am sure it would also cost $50k less. But luckily it’s Porsche and it will be premium. The price reflects that.

Tesla either can’t figure out its build process or they’ve realized that Model S would also cost $150k if they wanted to build it properly. I am sure it’s the latter. So they save money putting cheap materials and poorly assembling the car.

My theory is that adding quality on top of already expensive battery technology would make even Model 3 cost $80k. Or more. So therefore you can buy a $50 or $60k car (LR Model 3) with no power liftgate, air suspension or a proper key, or even a frunk carpet in the $35k version, just to make it cost less. To each their own, but to me that makes no sense. If I am spending $50k, I want basic features every other car has. And that’s the range of cars we need to be comparing against.

 

[PWlakewood]

Fanboys spin it one way and tesla haters spin it the other way.

 

[PWlakewood]

Here is a few photo examples, I am literally at the Tesla SC/store waiting for my car and looking at a brand new Raven. Imagine how terrible panels and internal, invisible, plastic components are, if the visible parts are this bad. So yeah, build quality maybe has improved (I’ve never looked at 2012 ones), but is it actually good? No. No wonder they all rattle like crazy.

No rattles in my 2013. I've had 2 loaners from sc, one was a 2015 and the other 2018. No rattles in the 2018 and the 2015 had a slight dash rattle. I've driven quiet a few other model s from 2013 to 2017 and only the only one that had any rattles was the P85+ which also had the drive unit whine. It's not fair to say ALL have the squeaks and rattles. In fact I'm pretty sure all cars can develop a rattle or squeak.

Oh were you also going to go by the Mercedes or bmw dealership and see if they have any issues like you pointed out at tesla?

 

[PWlakewood]

@darxsys

Where did you post go spinning er, I mean showing tesla issues?

 

[Grant]

I have an early 2013 with 126K miles on it. Quality is as good as any car I've had, so my opinion is that features have improved but quality is just fine. I still have people who see the car and are surprised it's not a just purchased car--and my car lives outside. If you take a hard look at the complaints, it's usually the same people complaining over and over again.

I find this hard to believe. I bought a 2015 Model S 90D in 2018 and I've had 4 warranty repairs in the one year that I've owned it. Here they are:
1. Front brake calipers seized up. Front brakes and rotors replaced under warranty.
2. Could not charge in below freezing temperatures. Battery coolant pump replaced.
3. Oily fluid leaking from the Autopilot camera housing. Rain sensor assembly replaced.
4. Gen 2 Master Charger replaced (could not Supercharge).

For comparison, I had zero warranty repairs on my Nissan Leaf in the first 5 years that I owned it.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Depends what you mean by quality. When I bought mine, I didn’t notice any issues I notice now.

Drive units, batteries and motors are top notch, no question about that. The platform is amazing. So don’t worry about that part much.

The car itself, the cabin and other things are a complete mockery. I wish you lived closer to me so I could take you around and show you all the issues. You can even see all these if you go to a Tesla store and carefully look.

Examples:
1) I’ve recently driven a Dec 2018 75D with 4k miles. The thing rattled like crazy. From everywhere.
2) I currently have a 2017 100D loaner with 23k miles, since my car is in service. Rattles way worse than my 2015. Glass roof, driver door panel, speakers, trunk. Rattles from everywhere. Squeaks. Air suspension starts literally shaking the car occasionally when I want to go from high to standard. Sometimes works fine.
3) Go and take a look at a brand new Model S in store. Open the trunk and notice terrible fitment and quality of the plastic surrounding the hatch. Notice how you can see all the welding on the sides. Open rear doors and carefully inspect the rubber along
side the the door frame. It’s horrible quality. On every single S I’ve looked at. Plastic seat trim is sad to even look at. Look at the poorly cut rubber around the windows.
4) panel gaps. I mean, those really don’t matter much, but they certainly make the car uglier if the people/machines at the factory had a particularly bad day. I’ve seen some Model S and X vehicles where panel gaps made the car look like it just got out of an accident. Especially visible on white cars.
5) Yellow screens. I mean, what a disaster. Elon just loves making stupid decisions, and this one might cost them dearly. Who needs automotive grade screens, you say? Not Tesla apparently. So yeah, if you buy one, be aware it might develop a yellow screen any day. Really makes ownership exciting. The 4k mile loaner I mentioned had a yellow screen. A car with 4k miles. Sadness.

I won’t even go into Model 3 build specifics, that car is built like a go kart. Great platform,
terrible design and build.

Overall, the build quality is pathetic. Some people care, some don’t. I do more and more so it bothers me. Go check for yourself and see if you think a car like that is worth $100k or $50k, or not. If it is, you will have fun driving it and flooring it at every single traffic light. No other car matches this. Except maybe a $150k Taycan. If it’s not worth it for you, oh well. Be aware that rattles and noises aren’t covered under warranty anymore and you need to pay diagnostic fees just to have them reproduced with a technician. No wonder, Tesla really doesn’t give a *sugar* assembling these cars and also doesn’t want to waste their scarcest resource (money) fixing “non issues” that some “unreasonable” owners point out.

Yeah sorry I'm not a European car guy like OP stated he was in post #5, so maybe comparing it to Japanese quality is useless information. I always thought it would be a bad idea to test drive the ultimate driving machine, and that I was better off not knowing what I was missing.

 

[PWlakewood]

I find this hard to believe. I bought a 2015 Model S 90D in 2018 and I've had 4 warranty repairs in the one year that I've owned it. Here they are:
1. Front brake calipers seized up. Front brakes and rotors replaced under warranty.
2. Could not charge in below freezing temperatures. Battery coolant pump replaced.
3. Oily fluid leaking from the Autopilot camera housing. Rain sensor assembly replaced.
4. Gen 2 Master Charger replaced (could not Supercharge).

For comparison, I had zero warranty repairs on my Nissan Leaf in the first 5 years that I owned it.

Your experience does not equal everyone's experience.

 

[cucubits]

Your experience does not equal everyone's experience.

That goes both ways too!

It's obvious there are still a lot of quality problems with tesla. The fact that not everyone experienced them, just means their QA is not good and build quality is very inconsistent. You can get one with zero problems for years or one which will make a service center your second home... pure gamble for now.

 

[Donsanborn]

I have a 2017 90D S no problems after 30K miles, Tesla service is far better than any German car I have ever owned.

 

[darxsys]

Photos I took this morning of a brand new Raven while waiting for my car at the SC. Some people might not care about these “details”, but man, I do. It can’t be a good sign of overall build quality. Maybe in 2012 this was fine. 7 years later, it shouldn’t be. But that really depends who you are and what you care about. The important thing is to be aware the issues are still pretty much there.

Go to your local Tesla store and you will see all these. Guaranteed. I don’t have photos from Audi and Mercedes I looked at recently, but will try to go and see if there are any similar issues with their build. I kind of think there aren’t.

 

[darxsys]

That goes both ways too!

It's obvious there are still a lot of quality problems with tesla. The fact that not everyone experienced them, just means their QA is not good and build quality is very inconsistent. You can get one with zero problems for years or one which will make a service center your second home... pure gamble for now.

That’s the whole point. It’s way too much hit or miss to be considered good. But explain that to a lot of people here.

Anyway, I am a bit sick of trying to walk the nuanced path of supporting Tesla (remember, I own one, how the hell can I be a hater) while pointing out legitimate problems that they should work on, so I am not going to “complain” anymore in order to not offend our poor fanboys. To each their own, cheers!

 

[petecrayton]

You will not solve your problem statistically. My wife was married before; if I considered her ex's complaints only, I would not have married her. But once I took her for a "test drive" it was easy to overlook his experience. Buy the car you like to drive, not the one that rates best in JD Powers. No matter how much time it spends in the shop, it is insignificant to your time behind the wheel. Member JST just posted a great entry comparing his Tesla and BMW. The driving experience of a Tesla is incomparable. Once you own one you will not go back no matter how many door handles you have to replace.

 

[WdstockWizard]

I've owned my 2018 MS 100D for 9 months and have put 22,000 miles on it. Only issues thus far: replacing yellowed running lights/headlights and yellow main screen. Tesla replaced the headlights at my home. Still waiting on resolution of yellow screen. I love my Tesla and have no regrets!!!

Hey Mike, (Woodstock, Ga.) my 2018 S75D had / has the same issues. In addition to the yellow screen stripe which the Tesla SC in Alpharetta continues to side step, , I also see numerous proximity alerts from the sensors on the rear, passenger side. Driving nowhere near any obstacle, the flashing yellow and sometimes white arc lines appear. Your experience?

 

[AdamMacDon]

I'd say get a Model 3 over the Model S, and if you care about reliability, avoid the Model X like the plague. I know this will make some S and X owners very angry, but before you rant about how you have 50,000 trouble free miles with your one car, I used to work for a network of high end German dealerships that had lots of Tesla trade ins. It is my OPINION that for reliability and overall build quality, the Model 3 wins hands down, then the raven Model S, and finally the raven X. The Model X is a sweet car, but they just put a bunch of new, fancy tech into it that can go very wrong very easily. The Model S was Tesla's first ground-up build and it shows. Basic things like door storage pockets, a rear seat arm rest in the middle, and good cupholder placement are all absent. The Model 3 is being thrown together quickly, and some have issues, just be sure to inspect your car on delivery. My Model 3 had a few minor QC issues, but it's no big deal, Tesla sorts them out, or you can reject delivery if it's something awful, like grossly misaligned panels. The Model 3 had a ton of thought put into ergonomic design, longevity, and overall quality, so I can't help but feel like it beats out the previous models in all ways except perhaps straight line speed and how many KHw the battery holds.