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I think in the battery or some other part of the car, itself. I was thinking it was the SC cable at first, but that wouldn't explain the much more rapid dropoff when I switch to a different, unoccupied stall.
Unless there is something haywire with your car, it is extremely unlikely that the overheat condition is in the battery.
Ya, I'm not sure what was going on, but it seemed to have to do with heat, didn't seem to be specific to a given stall(or heat in the cable, as the second stall's cable was only lightly warm) and drove charging rate below even Level 2 rates when at 67% charge level. And the second experience, where it stayed at 42kW was just the next day, later in the day with lower outside temperature.
Rownolds
High Mileage Member
thank you, @Naonak, I'm looking forward to data from your upcoming trip. BTW, great avatar.
We spent our first 9 months as Model S owners doing the Tesla Gypsy thing, putting 45,000 miles on the car (2014 S85 pre-autopilot). We did, perhaps, 60% of our charging at SC's. When this whole throttling thing became known, we thought, oh yeah, I guess maybe we're charging slower than we used to. We hadn't really noticed. I guess what I'm saying is that the biggest addressable issue isn't so much the throttling but one's attitude towards it. Since there's little that can be done unless one really wants to obsess about it prior to the fact, it may make sense to be a bit more Buddhist about it. Find a thing to do other than wait impatiently. The extra time at the SC might not be great, but it's not terrible unless you let it be terrible. I think Tesla knows how to protect the battery pack and if they want to throttle my SC speed to protect my battery, I'm down with that.
We spent our first 9 months as Model S owners doing the Tesla Gypsy thing, putting 45,000 miles on the car (2014 S85 pre-autopilot). We did, perhaps, 60% of our charging at SC's. When this whole throttling thing became known, we thought, oh yeah, I guess maybe we're charging slower than we used to. We hadn't really noticed. I guess what I'm saying is that the biggest addressable issue isn't so much the throttling but one's attitude towards it. Since there's little that can be done unless one really wants to obsess about it prior to the fact, it may make sense to be a bit more Buddhist about it. Find a thing to do other than wait impatiently. The extra time at the SC might not be great, but it's not terrible unless you let it be terrible. I think Tesla knows how to protect the battery pack and if they want to throttle my SC speed to protect my battery, I'm down with that.
Now we have a new potential explanation that didn't exist when this thread was started: that SC has been slowed to match the Model 3. If the Model 3 fast charge rate was dramatically different than the model S, it would be deceptive to call it "supercharging". This way, SC has been reduced to 90kw, and there is no disparity. Sad.
I find this explanation to be 0% likely.
1) Tesla is trying to increase the distinction between the S/X and 3 to get people to buy the S/X - not decrease it.
2) The presence of 3s at the chargers means more power available to S/X, not less.
3) There's no way Tesla is going to leave their chargers wasting capacity, they want them at full utilization after investing so much capital.
4) There's two perfectly reasonable reasons why Model 3 charging rates are lower. One, it's a cheaper car, so they can't afford to have as many warranty claims on the pack. And two, they use larger format cells, which means improved energy density but slower withdrawal of heat from the pack, aka slower supercharging.
5) There's also a perfectly reasonable explanation for rate-limiting superchargers on S/X after they've supercharged past a given amount, which is to protect the pack. Which just happens to corresponds to Tesla's change in chemistry to include silicon in the anodes, which - while offering greater energy density - is not as mature of a technology as carbon and has more questions about longevity.
6) Tesla has already done the exact same sort of thing with launch mode - limiting the most extreme performance of the vehicle after a certain number of uses in order to protect longevity. It's perfectly reasonable to think that if they're going to do it for the motor, they're also going to do it for the pack.
There's no reason to make up conspiracies to screw over customers when the very obvious explanations suffice.
Agree that is the most likely explanation... but to confirm, Tesla would have to explain the following to customers:
1) the Supercharger rates quoted at the time of purchase and featured in our website marketing and trip calculators are no longer valid. Sorry.
2) the demonstrated battery longevity of our early model S before Si anode that everyone has been referencing for comfort and evidence that these batteries will have nearly zero loss after 5 years...surprise! That's not your battery pack.
3) we usually figure all this out as we go along...you are probably wondering what loss is grounds for warranty replacement... look over there! (Throws shiny object)
You don't need conspiracy theories to document Tesla screwing its customers
hybridbear
Active Member
I noticed a difference with my software limited 60D. During my first road trip using Superchargers starting with about 500 miles on my car I reached 99-101 kW peak charge rate at practically every Supercharger. During my second road trip which started with about 14,000 miles on the odometer I never went higher than 96-97 kW peak charge rate at any Supercharger. I've done no Supercharging except during the road trips. This is hugely disappointing. Tesla needs to disclose this information and be more transparent about how this will impact owners.
Model S90D.
I drove from Charleston, SC to Cherry Hill NJ, then to just north of Pittsburgh, PA, down to Martinsburg, WV, then Abingdon VA and finally back to Charleston during a five day period starting July 22. Total distance 1,298 miles. This was my first road trip in several months.
Supercharging stops:
I drove from Charleston, SC to Cherry Hill NJ, then to just north of Pittsburgh, PA, down to Martinsburg, WV, then Abingdon VA and finally back to Charleston during a five day period starting July 22. Total distance 1,298 miles. This was my first road trip in several months.
Supercharging stops:
- Lumberton, NC. 60-70kw charge rate (previously >100kw). Charge time +10 minutes longer than last trip over the same route
- Rocky Mount NC. Same thing, with charging times 15-20 minutes longer than previously
- Woodbridge, VA. Same.
- Newark DE. Charge to 90% One HOUR+ there - same slow charge rate. 20 minutes longer than before.
- Harrisburg, PA.
- Somerset, PA.
- Cranberry PA.
- Hagerstown MD.
- Lexington VA.
- Wytheville VA.
- Bristol TN. Early morning (6:30), temp about 70. 1/2 hour drive from overnight stay in Abingdon VA.Charging rate stayed just over 100kw until the battery was around 65-70%, then it started tapering. Stopped about 90%; rate still over 80kw.
- Greenville SC. Temp 92 degrees; rate of charge 60-70kw. Took an hour to charge enough to get home - a good 15 minutes longer than the last time I was there.
I have a data point to share. I was supercharging my P90D the other day with the pack around 15% full. The rate was 55-60kW and I couldn't get it any higher. Tried several stalls. I wound up just picking a stall and waiting at the slow rate.
At around 30-35% full (still charging at 60kW), an electrician pulled up with a bunch of supercharger stall parts so I asked him what he was doing. He said he was replacing the cables on the superchargers. I told him that all of the stalls are charging slowly right now and he said "these stalls have the original cable design. The ones I'm installing have over 10 revisions internally and this should fix your slow charging rate." I unplugged, moved my car away, and he installed the new cable in my stall. Took about 15 minutes. I pulled back in, plugged in and immediately got 110kW. No other cars there, no other changes except for the cable.
I have a lot of experience at this supercharger and prior to the new cables, I would consistently see low charge rates...sometimes as low as 40kW even with a low battery charge. After the new cables, every single stall gives me >100kW.
At around 30-35% full (still charging at 60kW), an electrician pulled up with a bunch of supercharger stall parts so I asked him what he was doing. He said he was replacing the cables on the superchargers. I told him that all of the stalls are charging slowly right now and he said "these stalls have the original cable design. The ones I'm installing have over 10 revisions internally and this should fix your slow charging rate." I unplugged, moved my car away, and he installed the new cable in my stall. Took about 15 minutes. I pulled back in, plugged in and immediately got 110kW. No other cars there, no other changes except for the cable.
I have a lot of experience at this supercharger and prior to the new cables, I would consistently see low charge rates...sometimes as low as 40kW even with a low battery charge. After the new cables, every single stall gives me >100kW.
Can you tell the cables apart by looking at them? If so, any chance you have pictures of the old and new cables?
I looked at the cables and couldn't discern any obvious differences. The handles and cables themselves looked the same on the outside. I didn't take pictures and I didn't read the numbers/letters on the cables either to look for a revision marker.
@MP3Mike, this is the Bend, OR supercharger in case you're out that way anytime soon.
@MP3Mike, this is the Bend, OR supercharger in case you're out that way anytime soon.
I've had a number of charging stalls lately which seem to throttle back to ~60kW after a minute or two. Usually just moving to the other stall pair has typically worked to get back up to 100-110kW rates, but I have informed Tesla each time of the problematic stall.
I looked closely at the pins of the last problem cable and nothing obvious stuck out other than some minor darkening of the contacts where they might have a little build up, not enough to seem concerning. Hopefully this is they fix they are employing by upgrading to a revised cable which should eliminate the issue.
At anyrate, where I was going, is there are multiple issues here with supercharging speeds, the slow down to ~60kW is likely due to issues with the superchargers which should hopefully be improving, judging from @_TTT_'s report, and the consistent ~90kW cap is more likely the throttling.
JohnnyG
Weee!
I wonder about this... The older handles had a defined separated U-shape button on them. The newer handles have a seamless button, denoted simply by a circled dot on the handle. What I don't know is, if this is enough to tell the difference for this fix, or if the change needed was implemented many revs after the button changed.
I know the new style button was implemented almost 2 years ago on the UMC, but most SC I use still have the old style button. Anyway, just a thought...
Link to: pic of old style vs new style.
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