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Has your Model S suspension lost its new-car crispness?

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Got my MS in early March.. took it to my trusty Discount Tire guys and EVERY lug nut needed 1/8 to 1/4 turn to get to the 129 spec. 2600 miles on the car...........everyone should check their lug nuts shortly after receiving your MS...............either sloppy in the factory or they just loosen up initially.
 
Another noob question - what exactly would happen if they are "too loose" (if that is even the right terminology??) Are the nuts going to pop off and my tire fling off into oncoming traffic or something? Or wear down the tires (treads) faster?

I have personal experience with this after borrowing someone else's Audi for 2 weeks a long time ago. There was a noise from the front left wheel when i got the car but I didn't think much of it but over time it got worse and when I finally checked the lug nuts one was missing :eek:
Basically my experience is that you will start hearing noises and that the lug nuts will come off over time if they move at all.
 
Ok I should have them checked then. I've always felt that the car "glides" around the road (dry road), similar to hydroplaning on wet roads. It scares me when I actually *do* drive in rainy weather. I should probably have the goodyears (19") rotated too while I'm at it , as I'm nearing 5k miles already. Question for taking it to a local shop: is there anything in particular with "lifting" the car? I thought I saw in the manual that said the Model S on needs a special hydraulic lift so as not to lift from the battery or something like that? How is that possible when the bottom of the car is flat? Wouldn't you always have to lift from the battery pack it's the entire bottom? (want to make sure to tell my local shop any special lift requirements)

The most important thing to know is that the air suspension (if you have it) MUST be placed in JACK MODE (done on the touch screen under Controls-Driving) before the wheels are lifted off the floor. Not doing this can damage the air suspension system.

There are four lift points: two just behind the front wheels, and two just ahead of the rear wheels. They're pretty easy to see under the car. The lift should NOT come in contact with the battery pack.

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At the Fremont Service right now and was told the torque spec has always been 129 ft/lb.

Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920 using Board Express

Curious. The Boston service center gave me the OLD 140N.m. — 103 lb/ft spec in mid March. Whatever. Tesla has recently fired up a new service network database, so everyone should be on the same page hereafter.
 
Yes, that can happen. Actually, in my case (on a full-sized van about 20 years ago) the nuts didn't pop off - but because they were loose, the wheel pulled itself off OVER the nuts when I made a turn, and went rolling across the intersection, hit a curb, bounced several feet in the air and over a fence, landed in a parking lot and continued bouncing towards the plate glass windows on the front of a Discount Tire store, screaming "Momma, I'm coming home!"

So, yeah. Make sure they're tight.


Happened to me in an alfa years ago. Had just gotten new tired and left front landed a swamp and I never got it back. Big fight with the shop!

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Ok I should have them checked then. I've always felt that the car "glides" around the road (dry road), similar to hydroplaning on wet roads. It scares me when I actually *do* drive in rainy weather.


You need to get to a shop SOON if you feel this much softness in the tracking on a Model S

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$300 for a wrench? .

If I were rebuilding an engine, I would want that much precision, but for tires and wheels a cheaper (~$100) torque wrench should be fine. If you get a really cheap beam (where the beam points at a scale, instead of the wrench giving you a "stop click" type, make sure it has a target indicator or use a crayon to mark your target. It's too hard to read the scale and work the wrench at the same time without.
 
$300 for a wrench?

If you're in the market for a Proxxon 23353 torque wrench, you might want to check if you can buy it from amazon.de instead of amazon.com.

http://www.amazon.de/Proxxon-23353-Drehmomentschlüssel-MicroClick-200/dp/B000S7ZRQM

(If your German is not very good, you might want to check that link in Google Chrome to get the automatic translation) :wink:

I've just orded one (together with a Proxxon 23938 - 3pc socket set: 17, 19 and 21mm) -
and the total incl. shipping and import fees (VAT) to Norway was EUR 145 (approx. $190).

If I'd bought only the torque wrench the total incl. shipping and import fees (VAT) to Norway would have been EUR 108 (approx. $142).

I don't know if amazon.de will ship to USA or not, you probably need to have an Amazon account with a USA address attached to it to find out ...
 
If your lug nuts have loosened significantly (and particularly if you felt the wheels wobbling), be sure to check the condition of the threads on the studs. If they are worn down (and particularly if the diameter of the studs has been further reduced by wear), you may want to have the studs replaced. Also check out the condition of the bolt holes on the rims for any enlargement or oval appearance (take the rim off to check both the studs and the holes on the rims.)
 
I just checked mine and found them all to be lose by about 1/8 of a turn. I went around twice and now they're all snugged down. I haven't gone for a drive yet so I'll delivery my comments on what difference, if any, it made later.
 
I had a tire fixed a couple of months ago due to a small cut, and some time later I noticed that when I go over 65 there was a general sense of noise/vibration uneasiness somewhere in the steering wheel and/or the rest of the car. Or it was in my head. I couldn't tell for sure where it came from or if it was really there - and you could only really tell anything on smooth new roads.

Any other car and I wouldn't have thought anything about it. And it was not noticeable as a passenger.

I looked at this thread as well, and was concerned that Firestone didn't tighten the wheel nuts correctly, so went to Tesla and asked them to tighten the wheel nuts - but didn't make any difference. So I let it go and didn't think anything of it for a while.


Well, last week I had a squeak fixed in the driver door panel and had a P85+ loaner for an hour, so I tried it out on the highway and I noticed it didn't have that vibration. So when I returned the P85+ I scheduled an appointment to have Tesla look at mine - but still fully expecting them to say they can't find anything wrong.

Wow - did they surprise me. Not only did they agree with the vibration, they called it "significant" after the test drive and they looked into it. Apparently what happened is that when Firestone fixed the tire, they didn't replace the wheel in the same way as they took it off. So Tesla rebalanced the wheel (off by 1.5 oz), and now the ride is as smooth as butter again. I couldn't for sure tell it was there, but I can sure as heck tell that it's gone.

I feel like the frog sitting in hot water and didn't realize how bad the problem really was. But loving Tesla servicing now more than ever! And I got to try 2 loaners over the last week - which totally reaffirmed my choices of options I picked :).
 
Likewise, I had a tire with debris causing a leak. In taking it off I was surprised at how loose the lug nuts were.

Further investigation revealed all four wheels had equally "not tight" lug nuts. Each required about 1/8 to 1/3 of a turn to tighten to spec.

My MS was June 2013 production (21" wheels, if it makes a difference) so I hope the factory is checking up on these posts . . . .
 
Yes, any tire shop should be able to re-torque them in five minutes. Just give them this spec: (175N.m. or 129 lb/ft)

The most obvious symptom I noticed was that the Model S would wander under full acceleration. After re-torquing them, the car is dead-on. If left unchecked, you could loose a lug nut or two, and possibly a wheel.
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Same spec as the 21"... (175N.m. or 129 lb/ft)
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@ToddR
Not sure about reviving an old thread,
BUT!
The information about torqueing our lug nuts is very important.
Some items I have found in researching this issue are:

Sockets;
Amazon.com: TEKTON 4950 1/2-Inch Drive Lug Nut Service Tool Flip Impact Socket Set, SAE/Metric, 4-Piece: Home Improvement
No protective coatings!
$16.43
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Sears.com
$22.94, -1- socket
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http://www.walmart.com/ip/40453143?wmlspartner=wmtlabs
Chicago Pneumatic SS413WP, 3 Piece 1/2" Drive Metric Thin Wall Wheel And Nut Protector
Impact Socket Set
(Same Chicago brand sockets, as the ones being sold at Sears)
$19.82

Sears.com
$33.94, -3- popular metric sizes
Features and Benefits:

  • Plastic coating on outside of socket wall to prevent damage to rims
  • Plastic cap on inside of socket to protect lug nut for damage
  • Different color socket for each size for easy determination
  • 3 most common metric sockets used on passenger cars
  • Case hardening sockets for longer life
Sizes include: 17mm, 19mm, 21mm
----

Textron Torque Wrench;
Sears.com
$60.99

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  • Informative
Reactions: MC408
My car has had a noticeable "wobble" on the highway, and I believe (with the help and advice on these forums) that I need an alignment. I did get my torque wrench out last night and checked the wheels. They were already torqued fairly close to spec and needed barely any noticeable amount of turn to get them cinched up. My "wobble" is still there. (not horrible or anything, but something I will ask about by my first service appt. at the latest).

i see that you have an "older" car, depending on how sensitive your butt is your tires may just be aging. sidewall is becoming softer over time. ive noticed this in all my cars and regardless of brand. some call me crazy but i can also tell if the psi in my fiat is 2-4 under what it should be. just a thought.
 
i see that you have an "older" car, depending on how sensitive your butt is your tires may just be aging. sidewall is becoming softer over time. ive noticed this in all my cars and regardless of brand. some call me crazy but i can also tell if the psi in my fiat is 2-4 under what it should be. just a thought.

That quote of mine was from a while ago. The car still feels the same to me (even on the new replacement tires I put on), and so does every Tesla loaner I've had, so I'm assuming it's "just me". Tesla has done two alignments for me and aside from having a steering wheel off-center until it was fixed, no change in this sensation. It does not feel as solid and "true" as my previous Cadillac CTS did.
 
That quote of mine was from a while ago. The car still feels the same to me (even on the new replacement tires I put on), and so does every Tesla loaner I've had, so I'm assuming it's "just me". Tesla has done two alignments for me and aside from having a steering wheel off-center until it was fixed, no change in this sensation. It does not feel as solid and "true" as my previous Cadillac CTS did.

I believe the primary reason for this is because Tesla's alignment specifications call for a tiny bit of toe-in which results in near zero toe once the car is in motion. Zero toe provides for improved efficiency at the expense of straight line stability. Increasing the toe-in should alleviate the sensation, but it will also increase tire wear and reduce your range.

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Sorry, forgot to mention that near-zero toe-in will also enhance the tramlining effect. Tires will tend to follow grooves and ruts in the road more with less toe-in.
 
Zero toe provides for improved efficiency at the expense of straight line stability. Increasing the toe-in should alleviate the sensation, but it will also increase tire wear and reduce your range.

Sorry, forgot to mention that near-zero toe-in will also enhance the tramlining effect. Tires will tend to follow grooves and ruts in the road more with less toe-in.

I suspect this is exactly the cause. The "wobble" I noticed from early on is exactly like the car is "hunting" to find the ruts in the highway. My head would actually feel like it's bobbing from side to side as I drive, with the car making very tiny left/right jerks. It was very disconcerting at first, but after 3 years and experiencing it on every Tesla loaner I've had, I guess I'm used to it now. FWIW, the tire wear on my Model S is no better or worse (in terms of mileage or unevenness) than any other similar car I've had.
 
For anyone who want's a torque wrench you're only going to use a few times a year, you can get them for $30 at Harbor Freight. Like rogbmw said, just remember to loosen them down after using them.
I've been waiting on mine to break for years. It's used a few times a year when I go to the track and change to track wheels and then change them back to the street wheels.
It's still working just fine.
 
I suspect this is exactly the cause. The "wobble" I noticed from early on is exactly like the car is "hunting" to find the ruts in the highway. My head would actually feel like it's bobbing from side to side as I drive, with the car making very tiny left/right jerks. It was very disconcerting at first, but after 3 years and experiencing it on every Tesla loaner I've had, I guess I'm used to it now. FWIW, the tire wear on my Model S is no better or worse (in terms of mileage or unevenness) than any other similar car I've had.

I'm coming up on 39,000 miles with my original Michelin Primacy tires. I am borderline 3/4 on the tread measurement, so I will probably need to replace them in a couple of thousand miles. Not bad... The Primacies are warranted up to 45,000 miles and I'm going to get close to that number.
 
For those that found loose lug nut and have tighten them with the torque wrench. Did you raise the car so that the wheel is no longer contact the ground before you tighten the lug nut or just tighten it with the tire contacting the ground? I seems logical to raise the car off the ground first but it seems too much work so I was wondering if I can just take the short cut and just tighten it without having to raise the car.