Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Have ordered - but interior concerns..

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Why Is that hypocritical? There is no correlation between killing farm animals As being bad for the environment. If anything I could make the argument less agricultural animals are better for the environment.
Well that's inaccurate. To harvest leather at scale you have to raise livestock and raising livestock is extremely impactful from outsized water and crop usage to feed and maintain the livestock to the fact that livestock alone is responsible for about 15% of global greenhouse gas emissions. As Tesla's mission statement About Tesla | Tesla is tied directly to sustainability they'll never switch to something like real leather if they can avoid it in any way.
 
Well that's inaccurate. To harvest leather at scale you have to raise livestock and raising livestock is extremely impactful from outsized water and crop usage to feed and maintain the livestock to the fact that livestock alone is responsible for about 15% of global greenhouse gas emissions. As Tesla's mission statement About Tesla | Tesla is tied directly to sustainability they'll never switch to something like real leather if they can avoid it in any way.
But the cows are there living now. My point was a dead cow makes less greenhouse gas than a live one. Demand for Meat and dairy drives the cattle industry, not leather, very few cows are raised for their hide, leather is a byproduct of the slaughter process >95% of the time. With a decreased demand for leather over the last decades many cow hides get buried in the ground with the steaks headed to your local market.
 
But the cows are there living now. My point was a dead cow makes less greenhouse gas than a live one. Demand for Meat and dairy drives the cattle industry, not leather, very few cows are raised for their hide, leather is a byproduct of the slaughter process >95% of the time. With a decreased demand for leather over the last decades many cow hides get buried in the ground with the steaks headed to your local market.

I hear what you're saying and completely understand. But the idea (wether it matches reality or not) is that Tesla wants to be ahead of that curve and given that livestock is such a large contributor to greenhouse gasses it should be reduced so Tesla wouldn't want to be dependant on the byproduct of a resource that's directly opposed to their mission. The argument that it's plastic (vegan leather) is less environmentally friendly is kind of missing the point, There's a ton of plastic needed to make the car already so being dependant on the one unsustainable material instead of multiple is still a net win. The product benefits are that the fake leather is actually more durable and fades and stretches less than real leather as well as is cheaper. All of which are wins in the final product. The one place I feel like they did fail is fake leather doesn't breath as well as real leather and this is often fixed by perforating the fake leather. Tesla didn't do this which was dumb.

At the end of the day the benefits of fake leather actually far outweigh the benefits of leather. Most of the benefits of real leather are based on peoples emotional attachment to it as a "premium" material. there's very few ways it's actually better than the fake stuff. And for real if you don't care about the cost benefits and truly believe real leather is better. go get your car reupholstered there's plenty of places that'll do that for you.
 
Most of interior leather is painted with polyurethane paint so it doesn't really breathe anymore. Contact surface is allmost same stuff as in pleather.
By decreasing use of leather, value of cows goes down. So meat price needs to increase to cover higher cost of production. Higher price lower consumption. Net lower emissions.
SpaceX Mars rocket is powered by methane and oxygen, not oil based fluid. SpaceX needs to make viable process for making methane from co2 and water by solar power in Mars. So process is also to be perfected at earth. That will be net co2 negative.
 
Most of interior leather is painted with polyurethane paint so it doesn't really breathe anymore. Contact surface is allmost same stuff as in pleather.
By decreasing use of leather, value of cows goes down. So meat price needs to increase to cover higher cost of production. Higher price lower consumption. Net lower emissions.
SpaceX Mars rocket is powered by methane and oxygen, not oil based fluid. SpaceX needs to make viable process for making methane from co2 and water by solar power in Mars. So process is also to be perfected at earth. That will be net co2 negative.
I have a lot of family in the cattle industry. Hide makes up <5% of the revenue from a cow harvest and not at all a factor for gains/loss. And I’ll also add revenue per cow is not how successful ranchers manage their business. Leather/hide really comes down to <1-2% of their profits.

The concept of lower demand for leather will equate to higher beef cost and less demand therefore is a myth brought on by the PETA/vegan crowd to justify leather hate. And not true at all. In fact most cattle producers make more revenue from fat that goes to steric acid for tires and rubber then leather. Tesla isn’t doing away with Cow containing tires and rubber. Another fun fact for thought, you can’t buy a vegan bike tire in the USA.

And oil based liquid rocket propellant hasn’t been common since the 1970’s. Methane based liquid propellant has been standard long before Space X (or Tesla, or PayPal) existed.
 
I have a lot of family in the cattle industry. Hide makes up <5% of the revenue from a cow harvest and not at all a factor for gains/loss. And I’ll also add revenue per cow is not how successful ranchers manage their business. Leather/hide really comes down to <1-2% of their profits.

That math don't add up. If something is let's say 4% of revenue. 4/100. In business where competition is fierce and profit margins are around 0 to 8% of revenue. Then you take that 4% away from revenue. Then its los or up to 50% decrease in profits. Not 1-2% decrease.

Rocket propellant comment was for ThomasDs oil question.

Sorry about of topic.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Beltsbear
That math don't add up. If something is let's say 4% of revenue. 4/100. In business where competition is fierce and profit margins are around 0 to 8% of revenue. Then you take that 4% away from revenue. Then its los or up to 50% decrease in profits. Not 1-2% decrease.

Rocket propellant comment was for ThomasDs oil question.

Sorry about of topic.
Sorry I was talking net revenue from the harvest, so % of profits. So if you were to make $100 profit from a cow <$5 would come from the hide. And for the difference where leather is <2% of total profits, ranchers make money off more than meat, selling live calf’s for example. Real world example, my uncle is a huge cattle rancher. These days he Gives the hides away, somone shows up and hauls them off and doesn’t have to deal with them. Years ago he sold them, now they are not worth enough for him to care.

I’ll add he has more heads of cattle then ever so decreased demand for leather hasn’t decreased the number of cows. This is common across cattle regions here in the USA.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I did some internet searching and found pro leather use site(Grain of salt needed for info). Says that today leather is only about 1% of total value. Leather value was about 60+% of all by products (other than meat) at year 2000. Corona time has been bad for leather market, price/demand decreased over 30% compared to 2019.
I understand need to grow to be larger producer with ever larger livestock headcount to survive in the market. With thinning margins only scale bring enough profits to survive.

Still there is correlation in between meat price and demand, even when demand grows. Weaker demand of leather have done it's part. Even if that part is tiny.
 
  • Like
Reactions: coleAK
Couches. lol. That’s good one.

we’re talking about top,of the line truck interiors. Tesla has a looooong way to go to get in the top shelf.
Not sure what your argument is here. Top of the line truck interiors use at best 100% Full grain leather or top grain leather (and most with a few exceptions use Top Grain not full grain for seat upholstery at least). The couches I referenced were Full grain leather. Not sure what you think the difference is, but based on the lack of detail in your response I'm guessing you don't know and just assume there is one. Reality is decent modern vinyl upholstery is softer feeling and more durable than even Full Grain leather. Definitely correct me if you do have more detail on what your point is. Drawbacks to the vinyl are pretty much that it doesn't breathe the same and it doesn't have the leather smell
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I did some internet searching and found pro leather use site(Grain of salt needed for info). Says that today leather is only about 1% of total value. Leather value was about 60+% of all by products (other than meat) at year 2000. Corona time has been bad for leather market, price/demand decreased over 30% compared to 2019.
I understand need to grow to be larger producer with ever larger livestock headcount to survive in the market. With thinning margins only scale bring enough profits to survive.

Still there is correlation in between meat price and demand, even when demand grows. Weaker demand of leather have done it's part. Even if that part is tiny.
Talked to my cousins the other night who run multiple ranches. Their theory is decreased demand for leather over the last 20 years has INCREASED the heads of cattle. Think about it from a business standpoint. Thinner margin per unit, smart thing to do to increase revenue is increase units. In the US the amount of cattle has been fairly constant over the last 20 years but cattle in central and South America has skyrocketed.
 
The Cybertruck looks to be more utilitarian than luxury vehicle. The seats in my $100K Model X are very similar to those in my wife's $40K Model 3. I don't expect Tesla to deviate from this formula when they make the Cybertruck. They design their own seats and make some themselves.
 
I preferred the textile interior and that's what I got in the S. I'm so glad I did. All pictures of older Teslas and their leather didn't look great to me. It doesn't look like it's offered anymore though.

I will say the MBTex in Mercedes cars is a great alternative to leather and super durable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BayAreaCelt
Perhaps I’m cynical, but I just assumed Elon’s indie Rock girlfriend was vegan and lobbied for the change. That it had nothing to do with saving the world, business or science...

and anyone arguing it’s for the greater good of the environment needs to explain how you reconcile that minor positive good with the huge environmental cost brought on by the collapse of service and the rise of planned obsolescence. (Turning the cars into throw away gadgets).
 
  • Like
Reactions: alexgr and coleAK
I actually like the durability of my M3 seats after 14 months. They still look like new, much better than my Honda leather seats. I only wish they were ventilated. If you prefer the skin of dead animals to the product of oil industry (artificial leather), you always can pay a few more grands for custom leather seats. As our President puts it, it's gonna be beautiful.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Xenoilphobe
and anyone arguing it’s for the greater good of the environment needs to explain how you reconcile that minor positive good with the huge environmental cost brought on by the collapse of service and the rise of planned obsolescence. (Turning the cars into throw away gadgets).

And you know vegan leather is likely petroleum-based... go big oil.
 
My concern is... for a truck, the Pleather is not as durable, hard wearing or as nice as legit leather.

You'll be happy to know ultra leather (tm) is actually more durable than actual leather. They test this with a rub test, how many rubs it takes to wear out the material with jeans.


I want real dead animal skins please, they wear harder, look better and easier to look after dammit too..

You can always have a shop wrap your seats aftermarket.



1. DURABILITY and LONGEVITY

Ultra-leather surfaces are made with a polyurethane molecular structure that acts as a foam barrier providing additional cushioning to your upholstered seating. In addition, ultra-leather exceeds heavy duty industry abrasion standards by more than 13 times and it is also scratch, nick and blemish resistant.

2. GOOD in EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS

Ultra-leather does really well in extreme weather conditions as well. It cools 50% faster than genuine leather and 20% faster than vinyl. Moreover, cold temperatures won’t stiffen or crack the fabric like genuine leather or vinyl would. That’s why ultra-leather exceeds the industry standards in wear and tear.

3. SUSTAINIBILITY

The fabric doesn’t contain any plasticizers, heavy metals or stabilizers, which means it’s 100% VOC free. In addition, almost 99% of the chemicals used to create this material are also recycled by the manufacturer, which makes it even more environmentally friendly.





Where UL fails, is in breathability. The way Tesla has the seats designed, the seats are like wearing a plastic bag on your back. That's my complaint. I've gotten used to it over the last 2 years, but it would be nice if they made perforations, and added active cooling to them.
 
Soft, long-lasting and animal-friendly, Ultraleather® is the leading faux leather fabric for auto and marine interior upholstery. ... Constructed from a 100% polyurethane surface with a 100% reinforced rayon backing, this high-performance, PVC-free leather alternative is engineered for long-lasting performance.