Have Tesla made these cars too good?

[gangzoom]

We've all seen the stuff on dropping S/X demand etc, and today whilst replying to a different post I do wonder if part of the demand issue is the fact many of us existing owners simply aren't trading up.

There is only a finite market for high ticket items like the S/X, and most traditional manufactures expect their customers to upgrade every few years.

But with our X, I find it very very hard to justify ever changing it....

So why do people change cars? I can think of three main reasons...

A: New features/stuff, we all like new stuff, and whilst new MCU 2 car get more stuff, dashcam recording/browser update it hardly justification for dropping $$$$ on a new car - Infact with Tesla's recent FSD 'sale', you can argue even a late 2016 AP 2.0 with FSD activated is going to stay relevant on the biggest changes to come.

B: Running costs.....Anyone whos owned a BMW/Merc/Audi will know the NEED for extended warranties and repair bills as the cars age. But despite all the concerns people have about Tesla build quality plenty of reports these cars last well, really well.

C: You just want a change. I think this is partly why the mod market is so healthy for many brands. Often you just want to change, get bored etc. Once you start to look at other cars pretty soon your mind starts to justify the need to change using A/B.

But with our X I just want to keep it, in fact I would be happy to pay for new battery/MCU rather than change the car it self. I don't know why, but there is an emotional connection between us and our car. Even recently when I've been given newer loaners with bigger batteries, I couldn't wait to be back in our own X.

So what do people think? Have Tesla crippled themselves in a way by making such good cars to start with?

 

[Pale_Rider]

Quite possibly. I find myself having similar thoughts. If they ever let me upgrade my MCU, and I’ve already got FSD paid for, my 2017 X will last me a long time. There is still really nothing like it on the market other than another X and that just isn’t very compelling...

 

[Saghost]

There are still a lot of owners of other high end cars - far more of them than Tesla owners, actually. Some may be blindly loyal to a brand, but I think a lot of them could be swayed.

And of course, all of us AP1 and pre-AP owners may to want to upgrade to get FSD and better AP sooner or later.

I think Tesla needs the reputation for durability and longevity to help swing the rest of the market to try EVs.

I also think their bigger problem right now is justifying the value proposition of the S and X vs the 3.

 

[glide]

Tesla needs to get its house in order. Their products are good but not good enough to justify me sinking another 100K into a vehicle until they can demonstrate they have some form of post-purchase service.

Fool me once.

 

[Swss]

For me personally, free supercharging is a strong reason to stick with my current MX. That’s a disadvantage of the new cars. And to spend a 6 digit sum for something that is worse in this aspect ...

 

[Sunshine State]

We have a three 2016’s with Free Supercharging and two with AP1. We love our cars, keep them immaculate plus we have the bonus of the free SC and flawless AP1. The range on our current cars is outstanding and see the small range increase on the newly announced 10 percent drivetrain efficiency a small incentive but not enough reason to buy one. Of course if the drivetrain was offered for a small upcharge plus FSCing sure but again in itself not enough to justify upgrading. On a side note I’ll be really interested to see if there really will be the 10 percent increase in real world testing and will take this announcement with a grain of salt. We did just buy another new P100DL during the end of quarter sale but that was because we wanted a red/white car and received it with the 3 years Free Supercharging incentive. I don’t see AP2 as a negative but having lots of first hand experience it amazes me how anyone sees it as an upgrade in anyway other than price. My point is I haven’t seen any game changers since the AP1 introduction and duel motor performance upgrade, those were clearly game changers and incentives to purchase.

 

[outie]

We have a three 2016’s with Free Supercharging and two with AP1. We love our cars, keep them immaculate plus we have the bonus of the free SC and flawless AP1. The range on our current cars is outstanding and see the small range increase on the newly announced 10 percent drivetrain efficiency a small incentive but not enough reason to buy one. Of course if the drivetrain was offered for a small upcharge plus FSCing sure but again in itself not enough to justify upgrading. On a side note I’ll be really interested to see if there really will be the 10 percent increase in real world testing and will take this announcement with a grain of salt. We did just buy another new P100DL during the end of quarter sale but that was because we wanted a red/white car and received it with the 3 years Free Supercharging incentive. I don’t see AP2 as a negative but having lots of first hand experience it amazes me how anyone sees it as an upgrade in anyway other than price. My point is I haven’t seen any game changers since the AP1 introduction and duel motor performance upgrade, those were clearly game changers and incentives to purchase.
View attachment 401170

Nice. Are those wheels grey? I thought they only come in black.

 

[jboy210]

Interesting question.

I can say we leased and are glad we did. We have X75 and I wish we had the 100KW battery. We don't need Performance, but the range would have be nice. We also went without PUP and find the sound system lacking. We don't care about the self-presenting doors and Bio-mode, but a better sound system is needed.

In 2 years the lease will be up. By then the Model X will probably routinely get over 300 miles, and there will be higher build quality and more bang for your buck. Also, the Model Y will be out and we may look at the top end one of those, or another brand. And there is a possibility that Tesla as we know if may not exist by then. Maybe they will be part of bigger entity like Toyota or GM

 

[Sunshine State]

Nice. Are those wheels grey? I thought they only come in black.

The are Tesla Midnight Silver, close to Sonic Grey. We have two Midnight Grey S’s and re-did the 21" Turbine wheels on those so they would be an exact match to the cars paint and then also did our 22’s on our X the same because I don’t like the satin black. I know the Tesla wheel and car greys are not the same but when I look at grey wheels on grey Teslas they are too close to not match exact. I know they weren’t trying to match but it looks like they were trying and missed.

 

[Sunshine State]

Interesting question.

I can say we leased and are glad we did. We have X75 and I wish we had the 100KW battery. We don't need Performance, but the range would have be nice. We also went without PUP and find the sound system lacking. We don't care about the self-presenting doors and Bio-mode, but a better sound system is needed.

In 2 years the lease will be up. By then the Model X will probably routinely get over 300 miles, and there will be higher build quality and more bang for your buck. Also, the Model Y will be out and we may look at the top end one of those, or another brand. And there is a possibility that Tesla as we know if may not exist by then. Maybe they will be part of bigger entity like Toyota or GM

I didn’t think the self presenting doors were a necessity when when we bought our X but I’ll tell you after driving the X for a while and then jumping in our S the doors seem lacking. I know it sounds silly but it’s such a neat feature after having it, it spoils you.

 

[gangzoom]

I can say we leased and are glad we did.

Not sure about US pricing, but we paid £71k out right for ours (60D), 6 seater, white interior, subzero pack back in mid 2016 - with early 2017 RHD car delivery.

I've changed the front speakers for £400 and the car sounds better than a 100D loaner I had recently with premium audio. Equally living in England, having the extra range of the 100D loaner made no difference.

We added FSD for £5k in the 'FSD' sale, and through circumstance out of my control another £4K to get the 60-75 range upgrade.

So total spend on our X is £80k, the same spec X today is £90K, and that's for the reintroduced 'Standard Range' X with only marginal range increase, the price goes up just shy of £100K for a LR car, that price difference would pay easily to upgrade a SR Model 3 order to the Performance version!!!

Am very happy keeping our X till at least the 8 year battery/motor warranty is up, leasing is a great move if you can afford to justify spending $$$$/month on the newest possible car. If you assume our X will be worth £15K in 8 years time (very conservative estimat), the total ownership cost would be £680/month, which is still very very expensive.

Leasing a X for 8 years in the UK would be even more expensive - According to Tesla finance £128K with if using x2 4 years terms - or £192K for x4 2 year terms, and at the end of 8 years we still would not own the car versus £80K total spend now and full ownership !!

It really it comes down to is do you think a new X is better enough than the older cars to justify paying the extra $$$, which for us is clear - NO.

We will be getting a Y at some point to complement the X, though the Y will lack power doors, the massive windscreen, and the huge space in the back. For our needs the X is simply too good to think about replacing .

 

[BryWay]

I didn’t think the self presenting doors were a necessity when when we bought our X but I’ll tell you after driving the X for a while and then jumping in our S the doors seem lacking. I know it sounds silly but it’s such a neat feature after having it, it spoils you.

That sums it up perfectly.

Prior to buying my MX, I'd been a blind BMW loyalist -- all I'd bought and driven for the past 15 years. My last two BMWs were both fully loaded 7 Series, the last of which was a 2016 model. Those cars were among the most comfortable, sumptuous, tech-laden cars I'd ever owned, and I LOVED them; yet neither can hold a candle to my MXP100D. Full stop. Is the ride in my new MX as smooth as the ride in my 7 Series? Of course not. Is the interior as well thought out and cohesive as the interior in my 7 Series? No. Is the *quality* of materials and quietness of the cabin on par with my 7 Series? Absolutely not. But NONE of that matters anymore.

The MX is the best car I've EVER owned. It's all the little thoughtful touches that, when combined, make this car tower over anything I've ever owned before. I do love the self-presenting doors, and have come to rely on them. I love LOVE LOVE autopilot and have come to rely on that. I love the giant touchscreen and excellent maps (with full keyboard vs a silly iDrive wheel for input), the list goes on and on. Capping the list, of course, is the fact I haven't had to go to a petrol station in MONTHS!

There have to be millions of folks like me out there. Able to afford higher-end luxury, sticking to a brand (Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc.) yet eying an MS or MX. I took the leap and I'm in love. I've got it really bad too.

 

[turtlesz]

The cars are great and I have a hard time upgrading. Own a Model 3 LR RWD and a X75D which is used for section 179 deduction. Just the past 2 weeks I found incredible inventory deals but couldn't justify the upgrade and process of switching cars. There was a P3D with white on white interior with 20 miles on it for $9300 off. It was $52k w/ autopilot and I still couldn't justify selling my LR RWD to upgrade. To top that off a Model X P100DL inventory black/white interior, with FSD was selling for $99,100 w/ 3400 miles. The craziest part is they were giving a 20k adjustment for current owners making it $79,100 and qualifies for all rebates. I didn't bite because my 75D is getting the section 179 deductions and I'm happy with it till the next gen comes out. Pinched me to let it go though, not going to lie. The deals are getting better and better and I think as Tesla produces more the prices will continue to show that.

 

[Jffurlan]

I think making such great cars is what will benefit Tesla. People tend to keep their new vehicles for 6 years. I’d imagine this is because they require maintenance, repairs, etc. These repairs are not just for a computer or battery, they’re for intricate parts of a combustion engine. It will take years to change this mindset, but if a Tesla really does have a 500,000km (mile?) life, think of that allure. Buy now and keep for 20, 30 years. How many of us plan on never changing the LED bulbs in our house?

I know for us, we’re waiting on a super long range truck or SUV. Something that can make towing more than 500km a charge a possibility. But that vehicle will not be as practical day to day, (and is probably years away) and that’s where the model 3 fits in. It will forever be our day to day car. As I truly believe it should be with everyone lol

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Buy now and keep for 20, 30 years.

That’s my plan. Hopefully Tesla will support this.

 

[StealthP3D]

The reason the market for Teslas will keep expanding is because they make them so nice. It takes people a while to understand this. With currently less than 2% of the cars in America EV's, the growth potential is still huge, even without people trading up from older Teslas.

 

[aagosh]

So what do people think? Have Tesla crippled themselves in a way by making such good cars to start with?

I think of Tesla as a Computer on the wheels company. The car hardware platform will keep getting better and efficient with time - however, the real upgrade will be the software in the future. Elon Musk just announced that Tesla will be porting Unity to the car platform. This is such a smart move - Imaging playing Car racing games with your steering wheel and pedals while you charge your Tesla at Supercharger.
I could see a new range of Tesla only games coming into the market. The AP3 Neural Network hardware is also a state of the art and could easily become a distributed cloud computer - crunching numbers in the night when your car is not in use.

As a family which migrated from BMW X series to Model X - I can definitely say that this is the best car currently in the market - However, I am looking forward to upgrading once they have 800 km range on the full charge and a really impressive FSD hardware. We have got a 100D and it still only gives 300 km of usable range - (keeping a buffer of 50km for emergency) which is a bit shorter than the usual driving range of an SUV. Since the car is so nice to drive - you get much less fatigue than driving an ICE - however, range anxiety is always on your mind. With an 800 km range - I don't need to think about it at all.

 

[StealthP3D]

The AP3 Neural Network hardware is also a state of the art and could easily become a distributed cloud computer - crunching numbers in the night when your car is not in use.

Are you saying your Tesla could mine bitcoin all night long and you could wake up to a warm battery on cold winter mornings? Because the waste heat from the computers is used to add heat to the batteries (when needed).

Maybe the "Tesla bitcoin network" will become more valuable than the robo-taxis?

 

[aagosh]

Are you saying your Tesla could mine bitcoin all night long and you could wake up to a warm battery on cold winter mornings? Because the waste heat from the computers is used to add heat to the batteries (when needed).

Maybe the "Tesla bitcoin network" will become more valuable than the robo-taxis?

Lol - to be honest it would be feasible - however I think Elon would rather deploy it for a higher purpose e.g. Projects like SETI or cancer drug research.

 

[nateliv]

Tesla does not make reliable cars. I will never expect it will be in one day. It could become one by removing all the advanced technology options in the car. Such as falcon wing doors, front welcome auto open doors, and AP. for sure, it will be more reliable.
I told my wife we will be spend a lot of time at Tesla SC after we get the MX. Picking up the car next week. Finger crossed!