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Have you lost faith in Tesla?
- Thread starter DeejUK
- Start date
Zilla91
Active Member
Oh yes, “EA” chargers, that well known charging provider in the UK
It won’t affect sales. It will be complete crap because it isn’t a TeslaI wonder, when VW will release. ID 7 with 400+ mile range, how that will affect model 3 sales
Volkswagen ID7 Review 2024 | Performance & Pricing
A complete review of the Volkswagen ID7. Read our honest assessment of its practicality and driving performance, and compare its running costs and prices.www.carwow.co.uk
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Oh yes, “EA” chargers, that well known charging provider in the UK
I don’t know your networks tbh but EA is our main fast DCFC provider for CCS vehicles here across the pond.
Zilla91
Active Member
Great, but the reliability of that has nothing to do with the reliability of any of our providers. Also CCS is a standard here so everyone, including Tesla, use CCS.
Also the Supercharger network is open to non-Teslas in Europe.
So much… interesting conversation going on.
What makes me keep the “faith” (silly word to use in this sense but hey ho):
- the cars are still a great overall package
- they still have some of the best efficiency stats on the market
- meaning more less money to pay per mile
- they’re able to do this by having a tightly integrated battery management system, heat pump, drivetrain and efficient motors. Still ahead of pack in that department
- they still do many of the little things well (and not so well which I’ll get on to). E.g. I can open my app and do far more remotely than anyone else on the market. Like today I got a notification for leaving my window open - yeah dummy but thank god for that notification as I would’ve left it like that for days otherwise. Plus lots of other things that are too many to mention, something things unique to Tesla, something things other cars can do well, some things you’d have to pay for otherwise
- you get many features standard that you might have to pay for otherwise for other manufacturers
- still some of the safest cars on the road, can’t forget that
Some double edge sword stuff:
- they are constantly updating and iterating on the feature set. Great when they add things like heat pumps, heated steering, update lights, add insulation, remove rattles/squeaks, upgrade processing chips, etc.. Not so great when they remove standard features like USS (not that I’d be particularly bothered about that), common cables, etc. But I would say on the whole there is generally a net gain in their iterations
- consistent software updates. But similar to above, they can add some great features and improvements but then remove or change some that make it not so great
- Let’s face it, Elon played (and is playing?) a huge part in their success. He has strategies for the company that are novel and unique but others that are just plain dumb. He should be pivoting on things like advertising (now that he’s single handedly messing up the brand name he himself helped to build) or setting proper expectations on things like FSD, 4680, etc.
Some straight up shoot in the foot stuff (the losing faith part):
- the philosophy of “engineers (either hardware or software) should be deleting code or parts and then put them back in”: yeah it’s great when working on an experimental rocket and will help you develop and iterate faster, or if managing through a chip/supply chain crisis. But the thing is, they will delete or remove a whole bunch of things, then realise they deleted too much then put them back in (similar to what i’ve mentioned above). Then you will have a whole bunch of unlucky customers who are left with these products with deleted parts. Yeah it can be fixed with retro fit or software update but it’s annoying as hell
- not being able to get a whole bunch of small stuff right like: auto wipers, auto high beams, autopilot can be iffy and finicky, FSD though making progress is years “late”, and a whole bunch of other stuff many on here have gone to lengths to complain about.
Overall, I think they’re in good health. They weathered some massive storms (M3 ramp, pandemic) but I feel we’re in the eye of the hurricane atm. This second half with a drunken captain could be the worst they’ve faced yet but they have a history of pulling miracles out their ass. And this time they’re better equipped to do so. So I still have “faith”.
What makes me keep the “faith” (silly word to use in this sense but hey ho):
- the cars are still a great overall package
- they still have some of the best efficiency stats on the market
- meaning more less money to pay per mile
- they’re able to do this by having a tightly integrated battery management system, heat pump, drivetrain and efficient motors. Still ahead of pack in that department
- they still do many of the little things well (and not so well which I’ll get on to). E.g. I can open my app and do far more remotely than anyone else on the market. Like today I got a notification for leaving my window open - yeah dummy but thank god for that notification as I would’ve left it like that for days otherwise. Plus lots of other things that are too many to mention, something things unique to Tesla, something things other cars can do well, some things you’d have to pay for otherwise
- you get many features standard that you might have to pay for otherwise for other manufacturers
- still some of the safest cars on the road, can’t forget that
Some double edge sword stuff:
- they are constantly updating and iterating on the feature set. Great when they add things like heat pumps, heated steering, update lights, add insulation, remove rattles/squeaks, upgrade processing chips, etc.. Not so great when they remove standard features like USS (not that I’d be particularly bothered about that), common cables, etc. But I would say on the whole there is generally a net gain in their iterations
- consistent software updates. But similar to above, they can add some great features and improvements but then remove or change some that make it not so great
- Let’s face it, Elon played (and is playing?) a huge part in their success. He has strategies for the company that are novel and unique but others that are just plain dumb. He should be pivoting on things like advertising (now that he’s single handedly messing up the brand name he himself helped to build) or setting proper expectations on things like FSD, 4680, etc.
Some straight up shoot in the foot stuff (the losing faith part):
- the philosophy of “engineers (either hardware or software) should be deleting code or parts and then put them back in”: yeah it’s great when working on an experimental rocket and will help you develop and iterate faster, or if managing through a chip/supply chain crisis. But the thing is, they will delete or remove a whole bunch of things, then realise they deleted too much then put them back in (similar to what i’ve mentioned above). Then you will have a whole bunch of unlucky customers who are left with these products with deleted parts. Yeah it can be fixed with retro fit or software update but it’s annoying as hell
- not being able to get a whole bunch of small stuff right like: auto wipers, auto high beams, autopilot can be iffy and finicky, FSD though making progress is years “late”, and a whole bunch of other stuff many on here have gone to lengths to complain about.
Overall, I think they’re in good health. They weathered some massive storms (M3 ramp, pandemic) but I feel we’re in the eye of the hurricane atm. This second half with a drunken captain could be the worst they’ve faced yet but they have a history of pulling miracles out their ass. And this time they’re better equipped to do so. So I still have “faith”.
I am not sure that it will not be able to charge at any SC by the release date...
If the ID.3 and ID.4 is anything to go by, I don’t think anyone will be worried.
I think ID 7 will be something what VW learned from id3 and 4 mistakes/experiences
i see no way that manufacturers with more experience and weight in the car production can learn and adapt and make it better than first ones
While what I actually see is that tesla is somewhat sleeping on existing models
You can only mean interns of superficial external appearance. The cars have seen developments in battery packs, motors, suspension, lighting, heating, major components design and construction, CPU electronics, software … that’s just what comes to mind with 1 minutes thought!
Zilla91
Active Member
VW have accepted they messed up the ID3 which is why it’s already getting a facelift this year
Interior looks interesting…
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Now this has me interested. Enough range for 99% of my driving. If I need to charge, I'll put up with finding one that isn't on Tesla Network, but depends on the price. I can't imagine this being anywhere near M3 current prices.I wonder, when VW will release. ID 7 with 400+ mile range, how that will affect model 3 sales
Volkswagen ID7 Review 2024 | Performance & Pricing
A complete review of the Volkswagen ID7. Read our honest assessment of its practicality and driving performance, and compare its running costs and prices.
Sean.
Active Member
To be fair I would expect that - especially with something like the S which is essentially 11 years old in its current form and the X which is almost 8 years old.*
* my timings might be out slightly before I get piled on
yes, at some extent.
but so far car designs are the same as they were once they were released (more or less), the range still hovers at max of 300 miles (for model 3) despite new packs or whatever. and software - well all manufacturers do OTA updates for the software these days, nothing really special here... but whatever.
what is really interesting is that ID7 claims to be 435 mile range with 77 kwh battery - battery is more or less same size as model 3 LR battery which does 350 at best. an efficiency something to think about, no?
I’ll believe it when it see it, for a car that size doing 435 miles, I’d put money on the battery being bigger than 77kwh. Everything else on the market needs a lot more, particularly in the ‘luxury’ market. I don’t doubt there will be a 77kwh version but I also expect we will see a bigger battery version to get that rated range.
The only cars to get close to that with less are the likes of light year which are ultra slippery or ultra light weight and slippery like the aptera. The ID.7 is a big car and they say it also has all the bells and whistles.
I also don’t agree that the Model 3 or S etc hasn’t changed much. Sure the fundamental shape is the same, but so does pretty much every other car line to have come out in the last decade.
The entire front end of the Model S has been redesigned a couple of times. It bares no resemblance to the original car now inside or out and few of the parts are actually interchangeable.
Same for the model 3. The chassis is the same but the drive train is completely different. My 60kwh standard range now gets about the same real range as the first long range on sale and more than a first performance cars. That is significant progress, just not on price
The only cars to get close to that with less are the likes of light year which are ultra slippery or ultra light weight and slippery like the aptera. The ID.7 is a big car and they say it also has all the bells and whistles.
I also don’t agree that the Model 3 or S etc hasn’t changed much. Sure the fundamental shape is the same, but so does pretty much every other car line to have come out in the last decade.
The entire front end of the Model S has been redesigned a couple of times. It bares no resemblance to the original car now inside or out and few of the parts are actually interchangeable.
Same for the model 3. The chassis is the same but the drive train is completely different. My 60kwh standard range now gets about the same real range as the first long range on sale and more than a first performance cars. That is significant progress, just not on price
i think 400+ will be wltp/epa range, real life will be just under 400 but still impressive.I’ll believe it when it see it, for a car that size doing 435 miles, I’d put money on the battery being bigger than 77kwh. Everything else on the market needs a lot more, particularly in the ‘luxury’ market. I don’t doubt there will be a 77kwh version but I also expect we will see a bigger battery version to get that rated range.
The only cars to get close to that with less are the likes of light year which are ultra slippery or ultra light weight and slippery like the aptera. The ID.7 is a big car and they say it also has all the bells and whistles.
I also don’t agree that the Model 3 or S etc hasn’t changed much. Sure the fundamental shape is the same, but so does pretty much every other car line to have come out in the last decade.
The entire front end of the Model S has been redesigned a couple of times. It bares no resemblance to the original car now inside or out and few of the parts are actually interchangeable.
Same for the model 3. The chassis is the same but the drive train is completely different. My 60kwh standard range now gets about the same real range as the first long range on sale and more than a first performance cars. That is significant progress, just not on price
Example: The RWD Model 3 has made a significant jump in range over the SR+. It has a larger battery capacity and is more efficient due to having a different motor and also through having the heat pump with octovalve system. It is also able to use its full increased battery capacity through using a different chemistry which enables owners to routinely start their day with 100% charge. It has double glazed side windows. It has a heated area of the windscreen to reduce incidences of wipers freezing. It has added a heated steering wheel. The standard spec now includes heated rear seats.
I would venture to say that there have been more developmental changes to the Tesla models than any other car presently in production. The fact that the appearance of the body shell looks the same is neither here nor there!
We are different on that aspect … I value longevity in design unless there’s a strong need to change. It also helps break the artificial push by some manufacturers to get people to buy a new car because you make the older model “dated”, when it’s basically the same car underneath.
For sure, that’s what I meant and it’s the main basis for comparison. The real range in winter will probably be -30% as it is for pretty much everyone.
It’s no different to any other model that’s been in production for any length of time. The current Ford fiesta looks basically the same as one from 2013.
The Model 3 has only been on sale in the U.K. for about 3 and a half years, hardly long in the tooth at all.
