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Have you met the 'i hate all things ev' guy yet?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by jimbakker666, Oct 20, 2011.

  1. jimbakker666

    jimbakker666 Member

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    You know the guy: You tell him that you placed a deposit down on the the Tesla, or someone else mentions it to him in your presence. He seems to know all about the company, and his first question is 'what's the range'. You answer, but he doesn't really care. He just says, 'oh...that sucks'.

    I just met him today, and I met a similar guy last week. They know of EVs, they even know about Tesla. And they dislike them from the start, with their disdain typically boiling down to the distance afforded per charge.

    I don't understand the hate. When you think about it, 160 miles on one charge is actually quite far. I commute about 50 miles per day round-trip. Last weekend I drove about 50 on a day trip with my wife.

    And when you think about it, the more miles you drive per day, the more affordable the car becomes. I wish I was driving 130 miles a day as the money spent on gas would nearly pay for the car each month. Whoa whoa, but I actually have to take time to plug the thing in while in the comfort of my own garage? God forbid!

    Can you go on a spontaneous road trip with 160 miles? Probably not. Do people go on spontaneous road trips that often? Not anyone I've ever known. It's as if these guys are shooting the thing out of the water because it doesn't have the potential to guzzle gas and get you from coast to coast...yet, who actually does that in their own car? Would I drive a Honda Civic on a road trip, lol?

    And hell, if I wanted to go on a road trip, I'd much rather take a little time to plan out the charging routine if it allows me to keep a few hundred dollars in my pocket. Come to think of it, I might be going on my first ever road trip with this car. Why? Because it ain't gonna cost me an arm and a leg, and it's gonna get me around in style. I might even ride in the Frunk and let my wife do the driving.

    It's EV racism, I tell ya. No amount of discussion can change a person who just seems to have a bug up their ass about EVs.
     
  2. PopSmith

    PopSmith Saving for a Model 3

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    My friend seems to be that way. Well, he might not "hate all things EV" but when I was trying to get him to at least test drive a Roadster he wouldn't. I asked him why and he just said "The range isn't good enough". That seemed to be his only argument (although I didn't push the issue very much). When I hear people complain about the range I usually say "Campground are close enough (at least around here) to road-trip in an EV."

    It seems that Americans get all concerned over not being able to go 400-500 miles on a charge like they currently can in a gas or diesel-powered car. Honestly, when that is solved in the next 10-15 years (but hopefully much sooner!) I wonder what they'll complain about next!
     
  3. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    I haven't met one in person, just the trolls on sites like Engadget and such. To be fair, range anxiety IS a real thing. Even if the car got 4-500 miles on a charge, you can't just fuel up at a gas station like you can an ICE. I don't think I'll have the issue once I get my S, but aside from packing more batteries in a car, I think the easiest solution is a charging network and quicker charge times. Once you can fill up in a 50-100 mile radius in 10-15 minutes, it becomes a non-issue.

    Until then, I think there WILL be concern from the masses. I mean, if gas stations weren't so ubiquitous, people would be leery of a car that can only go 400 miles before possibly getting stranded somewhere.
     
  4. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    No point trying to convince let alone arguing with petrolheads who are being dismissive for the sake of it. Of all the coworkers that I'm close to - and who drive BMWs, Corvettes, Intinitis, Porsches - not one has a commute longer than 70 miles roundtrip and not one has been known to take their pricey ICEs on trips beyond 150 miles or so - for anything further out, they either fly or rent an ICE (mostly from SF->LA or Vegas or San Diego sort of a thing). These are the same folks who did end up adapting to smartphones with no tactile keys and that need to be plugged in religiously every night :smile: There definitely are practical considerations involved for some of them though - they don't have garages to plug in at night (and have to park on the street sort of a thing) and our employer doesn't provide charging stations.
     
  5. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I've found the bulk of them in 2 categories:
    1: It's my god given right to burn gasoline like my daddy did - I'm an American dammit - our way of life is to take whatever we want! ( max out my credit card to do it )
    2: I'm a young punk and want a big powerful noisy sportscar. I may die tomorrow so I don't give a *sugar* about planning the day after - for me or anybody.
    The foreign oil argument almost always works on the number 1s. I haven't found any way to get through to the number 2s. When an equally priced EV destroys them in a street race, they will be convinced.
     
  6. W.Petefish

    W.Petefish Active Member

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    I met some of them. Then I lost them and had to wait for them to catch up. Then lost them again. Then took them for a ride in my Arctic White 2.5, they converted rather quickly to being EV lovers.
     
  7. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

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    #7 WhiteKnight, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    This is actually one of my greatest concerns. I can see this (already) becoming a political football. For some reason in America there is a large fraction of the populace that treats their politics like they treat their sports - i.e. religiously. I am on the red team or I am on the blue team and my team is great and your team sucks and we do everything right and you do everything wrong. I think this blind faith in political parties occurs in both parties.

    My greatest concern is that driving an EV becomes something that the Left does and the Right scorns (just because the Left does it).

    I hope I'm wrong. I hope it's like an iPhone where you don't care who makes it you just like it because it's awesome and it works.

    When I was in California I saw a bumper stick on a Ford F-150 that said "one less Prius on the road" and I was kind of shocked. At a bare minimum you should hope everybody drives a Prius but you, then the demand for gas would be a lot less and the price to fill up your F-150 would be a lot less.

    I live in Georgia and I was Republican but now I'm fiercely Independent. I plan to get a bumper stick or license plate that says "OPEC-FREE" because it seems to me that somebody on the Right (we are a Red State) would have a hard time arguing that American soldiers should keep dying in the Middle East because America is addicted to foreign oil. Electricity is generated by Made in America coal and natural gas. Driving an EV to me is patriotic.

    Footnote: That gives me an idea for a Tesla Marketing Campaign if/when the time comes. How about a 30 second spot that says "The Model S is not just green, it's also red, white & blue."
     
  8. goyogi

    goyogi Member

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    This is the reason I want the sport model of the S. So I can show off what an EV can do....okay, okay...you got me...it also makes me feel damn good blasting into space. ;)
     
  9. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Surprisingly, I've never encountered someone like that. I've certainly seen skepticism, but they politely listened.

    I wouldn't overly worry about it. I've met people who are absolutely adamant that the moon landings never happened. They're complete idiots of course, but you can't convince them.
     
  10. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    I'm eagerly waiting for Top Gear's "unbiased review" of the Model S :wink: Maybe, the 3 'idiots' there will latch on to the 3-phase charging angle just to have something to gripe about.
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    I'm not even sure it's so much range anxiety as it is a sense of loss of freedom and convenience afforded by their gassers. Even if they can see that 90%+ of their driving is well within the range of the EV, they dislike the idea that they can't just jump in the car and take a longer road trip in the event of a family emergency, a spontaneous trip to a sporting event or concert, or just an impromptu get away with their partner.

    Sure, you can say "just rent a car" for those events, but that is an inconvenience and an additional expense. Those of us who are in a more rural area can't even get to a decent airport without driving 300 miles by interstate. Renting a car to get to that airport, then leaving it there can be expensive (since you usually have to pay more to drop off at a different location than you picked up).

    I'm not saying these are insurmountable problems. I think that once we adapt our thinking we'll find ways around these issues. maybe a vehicle swap with your neighbor--I take their gasser to the airport for the week and they get my Tesla for the week. Keep a small cheap used gasser as a backup vehicle. Whatever. But at the moment that takes a significant change in our usual way of thinking about our cars--our freedom, that sense that we can get in and drive across the country on a moment's notice if we so desire.

    One last concern, and I doubt I'm the only one, but my wife is not very good about remembering to do things outside of the ordinary. Many/most EV buyers are motivated to make the EV work for them. They're excited about how they work and what they do. But my wife just wants to get in and drive and not have to remember every time she stops to plug it in and unplug it. Now, she's a bright lady and can absolutely adapt, but with 3 kids and a busy schedule it is highly probable that there will be days where she could/would forget, completely, to plug in when she gets home as she's rushing around. Now, doing that just once in a while with a 160 mile range EV isn't going to be a big problem, but drop back to a 75 mile range Nissan Leaf and a couple longer days of driving and that absolutely could be an issue. Esp. here in BFE where there are no public chargers at all.

    Again, range anxiety, as I understand it, is more about fear of running out of range and not being able to recharge. I think that issue, in large part, is being slowly set aside. What isn't is the concerns about loss of freedom and convenience that our gassers provide us.
     
  12. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

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    from Jeff Dunham's "spark of insanity" tour:
    http://youtu.be/GQcSOP2AzXU at 2:35.

    still, laughed my ass off.
     
  13. JRod0802

    JRod0802 Member

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    #13 JRod0802, Oct 21, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2011
    I just wanted to let you guys know that people like that do exist. I go on a spontaneous 200-300 mile drive about 10 times per year (sometimes it's more than 300 miles, I did 550 miles on a Saturday last summer). I just love driving. I usually just have a Saturday where I purposely plan nothing, and then drive out to Western Mass (or southern NH, or southern VT, or eastern NY, or northern CT) and drive all day, stopping to take pictures with my DSLR. Admittedly, I usually plan out the route ahead of time for about 10 minutes on Google Maps.

    I totally agree. Even though I drive a gas guzzling Ford Mustang GT, I would definitely give a thumbs up to Leaf (not that I've ever seen an electric car on the road - in fact I have never seen an electric car or PHEV on the road ever, and I drive a lot... I've also never seen a charging station, although I hear there are some in Boston somewhere).

    I agree, although for me it would be a sacrifice. I realize that sacrificing for one's country is patriotic, but I'm not willing to give up my drives. I gotta draw the line somewhere, and until EVs are cheaper than gas cars, and can go 550 miles on the highway at the drop of a hat without being nervous about range, even if you're driving on a 10 year old battery (which could be solved with higher KWh batteries, or improved infrastructure), I won't buy one. Sorry. I totally support EVs, and get excited when new electric cars are announced, and I would love for my car to have the driving characteristics of the Tesla Roadster (for example), but it'll probably be a while before I get one. I just love driving too much to give up going on a nice, long, relaxing drive through the hill towns of Western Mass with some nice 60's and 70's rock music playing at a medium volume in the background. Especially in late October when the leaves are changing color. Man is it beautiful around here right now.

    But I'll definitely be wicked excited when an electric car that meets the criteria above finally comes out. Then I'll get to drive a car with superior driving characteristics (in my opinion), that doesn't harm the environment, without having to give up my spontaneous long drives.

    And no, I can't afford to have one car for commuting and one car for long distances in the mean time.

    Edit: If my financial situation changes, though, I'd love to have an EV for commuting and possibly for shorter drives, and an ICE car for the longer drives. Who knows, maybe by the time Bluestar is out, I'll be able to afford to have both.
     
  14. rabar10

    rabar10 FFE until Model 3

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    I appreciate your honesty and am sure that this opinion sums up a large portion of the car-buying public. That being said:

    - When you are comparing costs and worried about a 10 year old battery, then don't forget to factor in the cost of 10 years worth of gasoline and other service/maintenance. The up-front cost of EVs will be higher for a while yet, but total cost of ownership will reach and then surpass parity pretty soon!

    - This shows again how important fast-charge infrastructure will be to the long-term widespread adoption of EVs.
     
  15. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Wait until they remove the subsidies from Gasoline, and we start paying $8 per gallon! That will make people think twice about the value of EV's! I predict that this will occur within the next two years.
     
  16. DZCPA

    DZCPA 2.5 2011#1263 "NO GAZZZ"

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    I meet them daily as they take a picture of my Roadster as they eat my dust at EVERY stop light!
     
  17. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    This was part of my argument re: why I wanted a 300 mile battery even though my commute is less than 20 miles roundtrip. Sure, at some point, your mind will adjust (or as someone said, it'll be like tucking in kids), but I'd rather be able to forget a night or two and still have plenty range.
     
  18. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    This just confounds me. Does she forget to put gas in her current car? That's pretty out of the ordinary, unless she's filling up every day, in which case plugging in every day isn't any different. If she has any daily meds, does she forget those? Or forgets to plug in her cell phone? Or forgets to brush her teeth once a day?

    Complaints about time to charge or range I can understand, but the idea that people will forget to plug in their car every day or two absolutely escapes my comprehension. It seems as crazy to me as saying you couldn't switch from sandals to shoes because you'd forget to tie the laces. I'm sure it's a real fear, but I don't think it's rational.
     
  19. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

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    What I see happening is arriving home and thinking to yourself that you're going to need to go out later for something or other and deciding not to plug in until returning from the later trip. Then it turns out that you don't make that later trip, but you forget or don't think to go out and plug in the car. Normally, I would just keep the car plugged in all the time it's in the garage.
     
  20. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    You've obviously never met my wife. ;)

    She forgets to charge her phone regularly... and has forgotten to get gas (although she was much younger back then).

    - mnx

     

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