TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Have you met the 'i hate all things ev' guy yet?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by jimbakker666, Oct 20, 2011.

Tags:
  1. goaliemanshark

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    162
    I take two approaches:
    1: If they are just being ignorant, but respectful. I tell them that I hope they enjoy their gas car, im going to enjoy not spending money on it

    2: If they are being a douche, totally unreasonable, and not listening to what you're saying. Suggest to them that we should both go sit in our respective garages with our respective cars idling.

    Sometimes, people need to have reality dropped on their head to realize what's going on.
     
  2. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    US
    I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. I'm sure they'd never get it which would be half the fun. I come from a very right-leaning region, awash in oil money (I'm right of center myself, but consider myself more an independent). I'm expecting to find these types as well, but I think I'll just be Tesla's unofficial salesman. One ride in this thing and they'll understand all the fuss. However, as mentioned before, there are plenty that just want to make as much smoke and noise as obnoxiously possible and Tesla doesn't fit their ideal. The jacked up truck, mud tires, glass pack exhaust types with the most obnoxious Harley possible in their garage. Those types will be a lost cause. I'm not sure what, if any, reasoning will work with them.
     
  3. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    I bought the Tesla not because its EV but for practical reasons: car pool lane, less money to run, exceptional performance for a four door sedan, great looks for a four door.

    I already have an X5 diesel for skiing and long trips. My other fun cars are a Ferrari and a 650i.

    I am neither an EV lover or hater. Electricity is not an energy source but an energy transfer medium. It's a useful tool but in and by itself not an energy source. The energy to make electricity still has to come from somewhere.

    I just love cars. Performance, looks and safety. Fuel mileage does not crack the top three. I will drive this car just like any of my other cars. Spirited.

    If the government wants to give me money to buy it, fine, but not necessary. Anybody that spends $100k plus on a car doesn't need the subsidy/tax break

    This is not some kind of a spiritual experience or life long dream. I won't hypermile or plan trips by the charging station. I won't worry if the heater consumes more energy than the heated seats or if the pre-heating consumes 5 miles. Whether Michelins give better mileage than Continentals. None of that interests me. I'll plug it in every night like my iPhone and my daily commute is less than 80 miles.

    :)
     
  4. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    16,562
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge
    This was me before I bought my Roadster. I bought it for performance, not because it was electric. (The Beginning. - Blogs - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum ) Now, I can't imagine driving anything but electric. I'm willing to put down a side bet that your Model S will slowly work its way with you :) and a year from now, you'll have a change in opinion. NOT that you'll go green. But a change, nonetheless.

    Game on?
     
  5. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    Game on :)
     
  6. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    16,562
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge
    Posts discussing global warming have been moved to Global Warming Discussion .

    (And yes, global warming is certainly a valid response to a 'I hate all things EV guy', but the discussion didn't fit within this thread.)
     
  7. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,173
    Location:
    MA
    Woah did this thread get merged with another one by mistake?
     
  8. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    16,562
    Location:
    Columbia River Gorge
    No, but some posts were moved to another thread.
     
  9. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,173
    Location:
    MA
    #69 cinergi, Feb 3, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
    I'm pretty sure it did. Check post 59 and prior ...

    Edit -- hang on.. trying to wrap my head around this

    Edit2: OK, I'm on crack. I could SWEAR this was a new thread and wondered how it was marked that I replied to it... saw my post from 2011 about a different topic and assumed a merge. Nope, that was just us getting off topic over a year ago on an old thread that Raffy resurrected :smile:
    (speaking of off topic). Sorry for the false alarm.
     
  10. Vexar

    Vexar Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    Citrus Heights, CA
    One of my four closest friends emailed asked me to drive it down to his parents' place for Easter. I have the 65kWh battery, and he said they are 3 hours of driving away from me. This was about two hours after I said that it would be a while before I could take a road trip, after calling him from the car itself. I'm trying to figure out if this is some sort of "misunderstood me" thing, because the guy is smart and listens. I responded saying I'd need to find a NEMA 14/50 outlet and stay long enough to recharge, provided it was in range.
    He said he wouldn't buy an electric car until he could drive to his parents' place (six hours, he's in Lincoln, NE) and only stop for 10 minutes to gas up. Not sure how to read that response.

    That guy is nothing compared to this "I hate Apple/Microsoft/Republicans/America" arrogant brute from outside Toronto. I baited him. He posted months ago about how stupid Obama was, how stupid Romney was, etc. in regards to electric cars. He said you can't get more than 100 miles out of town. Not knowing I was getting a Model S, I said "okay, well what if I bought a Model S and then drove out to see you in Toronto?" Well, he knows now. There's nothing worse for this guy than being wrong and having to admit it. If anyone in the forums is from Toronto and sees a plume of black smoke on the horizon, it is this guy, fuming mad.

    Everyone else has responded with "sexy" "OMG" "glad you got something you like" "no way!" "congrats" and "when are you taking me for a ride?"

    I think it is a mental disorder when people can't be happy for others.
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    People who make these kind of declarative statements have not been informed of all the advanages of driving electric. And undoubtedly they have never driven a Tesla.
     
  12. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,844
    Location:
    Portland, Maine, USA
    This guy laid out two requirements: (1) drive a particular distance and (2) recharge in a particular time.

    The first criterion isn't (on its face) unreasonable, provided he does this drive often enough. It was certainly a filter on my decision: if I couldn't drive the Model S between my city house and my summer house on a single charge, I probably wouldn't have bought it (given the complete lack of charging infrastructure between those two points).

    The second criterion is unreasonable, IMO. Does he really drive for six hours, visits for 10 minutes, then drives six hours home? People who haven't owned EVs don't seem to absorb the idea of charging while you eat/sleep/play; with ICE vehicles, fueling is a distinct activity, and so they (mistakenly) think charging is the same. It would be deadly dull staring at a car charging for hours on end, but that's not what happens.
     
  13. ChadS

    ChadS Last tank of gas: March 2009. EV miles: 254,000

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,967
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    #73 ChadS, Feb 4, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
    I agree, VFX. I'd like to expand on this a little bit.

    Plug-in cars, as a group, don't have ANY disadvantages over gas cars, because plug-ins include PHEVs. This may seem an obvious point, but constantly gets missed by detractors.

    BEVs do have one disadvantage over gas cars: they take longer to refuel. Detractors harp relentlessly on this point because they want an excuse to not buy one. They don't want to buy one because they don't want one. They don't want one because they assume all sorts of disadvantages: they are slow and no fun to drive; they are terribly expensive, they are poorly built and unsafe, and when you are driving to the grocery store you unexpectedly have to stop and charge for 8 hours. When they come up and ask questions, they will not ask you if their assumptions are incorrect. They will just ask about range and recharge time because they're trying to figure out how much they'd have to put up with to own one.

    Not only are the disadvantages not there, but there are many advantages they are not considering - because they are all invisible. You can't see instant throttle response, 100% torque, low COG, or low operating costs while looking at a car. As VFX notes, detractors are unwilling to compromise on anything because they don't see what's in it for them.

    Many proponents unwittingly make things worse. Rather than show the advantages by letting them drive the car and then explaining other personal benefits like convenience and low costs, they lecture people on the societal benefits: less pollution, better for the economy, better for national security. Like anything else, if somebody starts lecturing you about how something is good for you, then you assume it's no fun. And these arguments rarely work anyway; few people will pay more for a lesser car to benefit everybody. If you want to those societal benefits come about, you have to sell the cars based on the personal benefits.

    The best argument is to (as VFX often says) take them for a ride - better yet, let them drive so they can feel the throttle response. That will be enough to interest them; though they will still have questions about long-term costs (few people know how to calculate how much electricity will cost them) and convenience (plugging in at night seems easy to those of us that are used to it; but really is a change for gas drivers and they need time to figure out how they can really make it work. Pointing out they can still use gas - via another car in the household, or by buying a PHEV - helps. Another obvious point they often miss).

    ---------------------------

    A parallel story that may help put it in to perspective.

    Remember when Apple first introduced the iPad? Others had tried tablets, but they never sold. And the iPad was subject to much ridicule:

    • it cost more than a Windows laptop, but
    • it had a smaller screen, and no keyboard
    • it couldn’t run essential windows apps
    • it didn’t have all the same opportunities for hardware expansion
    Most people I talked to said that you’d have to be complete idiot to buy one, because it couldn’t completely replace your desktop computer – it cost more and did less. It was a device without a market. Jobs had gone off his rocker. Some people lined up to buy them anyway; they were dismissed as fanatics to the brand.

    The skeptics were correct that the tablet cost more and didn’t do everything the laptop did. But there were a number of things they were overlooking:

    • Most of the first tablet buyers didn’t replace desktops; they added another device to their household. (Now some people are indeed buying tablets to replace laptops, for reasons below)
    • Computer use is changing. There is a lot less data entry, and lot more more-or-less passive consumption of content.
    • Apps are changing. Many apps were moving from the desktop to the web or for mobile devices; and in fact now some apps are ONLY for mobile devices because Apple made marketing and distribution easier
    • Hardware expansion doesn’t happen often anymore – people tend to upgrade to a new device instead (lowering costs and the market moving from early adopters to mainstream makes that more desirable than it used to be)
    • It had a number of very significant advantages that they were completely ignoring, because they were all invisible until you tried one:
      • 3x battery life
      • much faster boot times
      • ability to hold in front of you with one hand, and use in a variety of cramped conditions where you can’t always use a laptop
      • more natural (and much simpler) gesture interface
    Windows computer makers are now justifiably concerned about tablets completely taking over their market (they won't disappear completely for a long time; but it could be a very short time before the market is small enough that most manufacturers can't make any money). This sales increase – from almost nothing to a near-majority in a short period of time – came about simply because people saw the tablets being used in real life by their friends, and quickly recognized the benefits once they saw it in use. It will take longer with cars simply because they are way more expensive, but it will likely happen the same way.
     
  14. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,692
    Location:
    Batesville, IN
    There is another category of haters that seem to be harder to talk to. It's probably a waste of time though I DO try. The people that think anything the least bit "green"is some crazy waste of money that whacko environmentalists are pushing/lying about because it fits their agenda. They simply wont accept that something green can also be better. Even WAY better as in the Model S. They're convinced that it's just environmentalist BS. They look for lies and hypocrisy.I get the thing about having an airplane all the time. I tell them that when an clean/alternative fueled airplane comes out that will carry as much as fast and as far as my current one; I'll surely buy it. Just as I did with the MS.
     
  15. josh_b

    josh_b Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Mississauga, ON, Canada
    Let me tell you I've driven alongside many of them on the 401, QEW and 403 before. Sigh.
     
  16. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    I can't belive I said all that!

    I'm giving myself a reputation point.
     
  17. Edgewood Dome

    Edgewood Dome Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    190
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    Yes, several starting with my brother who hates the $7500 tax credit. I told him the total for the credit is estimated to be $2b from 2012 to 2019 when it phases out. On the other hand the tax credits to Oil companies is $10b Per Year! I live in the Pacific Northwest and work for a company in Indiana where my boss and everyone else are serious gear heads. Now I appreciate a nice ICE, but these folks were giving me all kinds of grief last week. The chairman even said I should be buying something that only got 10 MPG like a hummer. None of them believe Global Warming exists nor have any appreciation for Anything EV. Nice people otherwise! locals here in the northwest are pretty accepting of EV technology.
     
  18. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    17,805
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Yes, personality seems to change behind the wheel. But I think I'd prefer the predictably aggressive Toronto-area drivers to the oblivious Ottawa drivers. They seem to be getting worse and worse.

    But we digress...

    I've previously posted a story about meeting a serious EV skeptic at the auto show in Toronto. Randomly sat down with him at the crowded vendor lunch area (he was a vendor - Honda dealer). The conversation actually ended up being a lot of fun because he pulled up every FUD and excuse from poisonous batteries to hydrogen, and I had answers for all of them. By the end he was more receptive - not convinced, but thinking.
     
  19. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    6,069
    Location:
    Timonium, Maryland
    How can anyone who's educated, pays attention to the world around them, and has any regard for science be in denial about climate change? I would say education has failed them totally.
     
  20. scriptacus

    scriptacus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    216
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Not trying to get back on this topic, but I believe most are not denying climate change/global warming, they're denying anthropogenic causes. (Not my stance, but I can see where they're coming from)
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC