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Have you received FSD you paid for?

If you have paid for FSD (purchase or subscription), did you receive it?

  • Yes - I got FSD with features I expected and am satisfied

    Votes: 10 7.2%
  • Got FSD beta and it is useful, but still not complete / everything I paid for

    Votes: 33 23.9%
  • Got FSD beta and it is/was not useful

    Votes: 21 15.2%
  • Waiting to get into FSD beta - my safety score should be sufficient

    Votes: 39 28.3%
  • Waiting to get into FSD beta, but my safety score is not good enough

    Votes: 7 5.1%
  • I do not want to play with safety scores, so no FSD beta for me

    Votes: 11 8.0%
  • My car does not have hardware needed for FSD beta

    Votes: 8 5.8%
  • FSD beta is not available in my country/region

    Votes: 8 5.8%
  • Other reason for not receiving FSD I purchased

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Total voters
    138
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You mean if you have a HW2.0 model S? I thought they’ve been allowing them to get the camera upgrades
You would also need to upgrade to MCU2 on your own dime.

(I have Model S with HW 2.5 with "hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver", but that is not enough to apply for FSD beta)
 
If you purchased FSD package, they won’t upgrade you to MCU2?

Tesla insists that FSD will be working with MCU1. But at the same time they acknowledge that beta won't work with MCU1. I do not believe anyone at Tesla really believes that they will ever ship FSD to MCU1 owners, but as long as that is the official (Elon) company stance there they just stick to it.
 
Hard braking to avoid a frontal collision could be logged.

Emergency braking when a car pulls in front of you

The hardest braking my car does is usually phantom braking. Not sure counting those events would produce the insight you were hoping for!

I quite often get a message displayed about AEB being applied for my safety or such like..... without any actual braking or slowing. Usually when I'm passing a cyclist, so logging those probably wouldn't help either.

deceptive marketing case

I agree. Regardless of what legal argument would determine regarding what Tesla contractually undertook by way of their wording, the fact that there is so much debate is a good argument that marketing claims have not been straightforward and reasonably clear. The only purpose I can see for such lack of clarity in a marketing situation is deceit in some measure.

who knows if HW3.0 is actually enough

Right. And therfore who knows if cars are FSD capable or not? - unless there is an undertaking to install whatever hardware is needed to make cars FSD capable. Even then, without a realistic timeline and commitment to put delivery ahead of profits, it's still in the deceptive marketing category imo.

There is no evidence that the old goal post has any relevancy anymore.

Except to people who bought based on a reasonable interpretation of what the goalposts were at that time. Unless the new goalposts deliver universally higher performance to both old and new cars / owners, in which case, sure, the original ones cease to be as relevant.

Tesla was selling features to come in the future and locking in the price we paid ($3k & $5k for a total of $8k for EAP and FSD Capability).

Again, it's hard to demonstrate that you sold FSD Capability until cars are actually capable of doing reliably and consistently whatever the claims stated.

the promised capabilities of the hardware.

It seems to me so much splitting hairs to talk about hardware capability as though its different from what the car can actually do! False marketing claims are based on the difference between what a product can actually do at the time of sale vs what the seller would like you to believe it can do - today or at some specific time in the future. The very fact that there is a difference between those two 'realities' is the basis for a claim. The question is how big is the gap. In the case of FSD I say it's a pretty big gap.

I would also say that whether or not there is a deceptive element in marketing claims depends to some extent on the state of the market and what buyers can reasonably be expected to know. In the case of FSD there isn't much for buyers to go on other than what a specific manufacturer creates in buyers' expectations.
 
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This is just wrong…. Not trying to be rude or start an internet argument. But all 2018 Tesla Model 3s were sold as having been built and delivered with the necessary hardware to achieve full self driving. This was part of the product reveal in 2016. Watch it on YouTube.

You are talking about future promises, I am referring to the promised capabilities of the hardware.

And also there has to be a time when Tesla delivers on FSD as a final and finished product. This beta nonsense can’t continue indefinitely. If it continues indefinitely it should be called what it is, a scam.
This isn’t exactly true. Like I said earlier, we all received the HW3 upgrade for free. It was a promise to FSD Capability purchasers and was fulfilled.
 
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This isn’t exactly true. Like I said earlier, we all received the HW3 upgrade for free. It was a promise to FSD Capability purchasers and was fulfilled.
My 2018 S was sold as FSD capable. I did not purchase FSD, but instead opted in for the subscription when it became available last year. However I had to pay $1000 for hardware upgrade in order to start the subscription. So please explain the free HW upgrade part again?
 
Again, it's hard to demonstrate that you sold FSD Capability until cars are actually capable of doing reliably and consistently whatever the claims stated.

Again, FSD Capability isn’t just some term we are choosing now. It’s the language of the package that was sold. What was sold was never called FSD. That’s the perpetuated language confusion that Tesla instead has kept pretty clear.

And yes, it’s hard to prove capability of something that hadn’t been invented yet. I wasn’t so sure it would happen then when we bought it, and I’m not sure of it now because… it’s hard to predict the future?
 
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My 2018 S was sold as FSD capable. I did not purchase FSD, but instead opted in for the subscription when it became available last year. However I had to pay $1000 for hardware upgrade in order to start the subscription. So please explain the free HW upgrade part again?
Yes, as stated for years, you could have purchased FSD Capability package and had the HW3 upgrade included “for free”. As stated when the subscription became available years later, it would not include the HW3 upgrade. You’ve always had (and still have) the choice to purchase that package. It’s fine if people choose not to. It’s just not fine to expect something different than what’s clearly being sold.
 
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Yes, as stated for years, you could have purchased FSD Capability package and had the HW3 upgrade included “for free”. As stated when the subscription became available years later, it would not include the HW3 upgrade. You’ve always had (and still have) the choice to purchase that package. It’s fine if people choose not to. It’s just not fine to expect something different than what’s clearly being sold.
Firstly, there was no mention of free HW3 upgraded back in 2018. Back in 2018 the car was sold as having all the hardware required. Period.

Secondly, to upgrade to FSD will cost $6000 (from EAP). That is the same price as someone without the additional $1000 upgrade. So basically if I upgrade now I have lost the $1000. Sorry, but that is just plain wrong.
 
Firstly, there was no mention of free HW3 upgraded back in 2018. Back in 2018 the car was sold as having all the hardware required. Period.

Secondly, to upgrade to FSD will cost $6000 (from EAP). That is the same price as someone without the additional $1000 upgrade. So basically if I upgrade now I have lost the $1000. Sorry, but that is just plain wrong.
It’s hard for some of us to see how mispredicting the future timeline and requirements for a still yet unsolved problem (by anyone) as plain wrong. If people started promising a dollar amount donation would eradicate poverty-related hunger worldwide, would you hold them to that promise as a donor? World peace? Removing a politician of the opposite party from their seat?
 
It’s hard for some of us to see how mispredicting the future timeline and requirements for a still yet unsolved problem (by anyone) as plain wrong. If people started promising a dollar amount donation would eradicate poverty-related hunger worldwide, would you hold them to that promise as a donor? World peace? Removing a politician of the opposite party from their seat?
When Tesla is charging $12,000 for what is essentially a software upgrade, why not just upgrade the hardware for free for a car *they* claimed was FSD ready? So instead they only make $11,000 and keep the goodwill of their customers? They are the ones that made the miss predicting, not us. They made the claim, not us.
 
It’s really everyone mispredicting, but I understand the sentiment. I just don’t hold them to it because I think they (and many others in the field) thought it was true too and the sensor suites & processing of those current players were enough (vs intentionally misleading given known facts).
 
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I agree. Tesla needs to make this work for mcu1 or give upgrades. Every body here should hit Elon’s Twitter and mention it. The more the better. Not enough people are making this known on Twitter. Just a few. With more people getting beta. Now is a good time to let Elon and Tesla know we’re still here.
 
I agree. Tesla needs to make this work for mcu1 or give upgrades. Every body here should hit Elon’s Twitter and mention it. The more the better. Not enough people are making this known on Twitter. Just a few. With more people getting beta. Now is a good time to let Elon and Tesla know we’re still here.

A company that wants to serve their customers does not need those customers bombarding the CEO on Twitter. Company keeps learning how they can do better and just go and do it.

On the other hand, who wants to be a customer of a company that does not want to serve its customers...
 
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I agree. Key words being a company that wants to serve its customers. Not trying to pick apart your statement but it just seems like Elon wants to get by this situation and never mention it again. If we do nothing and prey they figure it out. We’ll be doing him a favor and going away like he wants. People have asked and this is the question he goes out of his way to ignore. I could be wrong here but he could easily put all of it to bed with a simple statement on the subject. It’s not that people aren’t willing to wait. We waited 6 years already. If he can’t even address it, why would those customers think he wants to serve them? Thus my reason for complaining and bombardment. It’s the only time these companies care about anything. Elon knows how to do things better but he continues to go out and put out timetables that he doesn’t meet. He said all hardware necessary included but Tesla is in a catch 22 because if upgrade happens. All fsd people who upgraded to mcu2 already will be owed a refund and probably the reason he won’t say *sugar*. Just my opinion tho.
 
I agree. Key words being a company that wants to serve its customers. Not trying to pick apart your statement but it just seems like Elon wants to get by this situation and never mention it again. If we do nothing and prey they figure it out. We’ll be doing him a favor and going away like he wants. People have asked and this is the question he goes out of his way to ignore. I could be wrong here but he could easily put all of it to bed with a simple statement on the subject. It’s not that people aren’t willing to wait. We waited 6 years already. If he can’t even address it, why would those customers think he wants to serve them? Thus my reason for complaining and bombardment. It’s the only time these companies care about anything. Elon knows how to do things better but he continues to go out and put out timetables that he doesn’t meet. He said all hardware necessary included but Tesla is in a catch 22 because if upgrade happens. All fsd people who upgraded to mcu2 already will be owed a refund and probably the reason he won’t say *sugar*. Just my opinion tho.
Definitely not advocating to doing nothing.

Instead of sending angry tweets, I would recommend taking legal action. That is heard louder and clearer.
 
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