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He does it again in Australia...
- Thread starter nswfugitive
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mspohr
Well-Known Member
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Doesn't it also benefit 50k homeowners individually, outside of the "virtual power plant?"
mspohr
Well-Known Member
There are some advantages to distributed storage and solar. It can use existing rooftops so no need to buy land. It removes the central point of failure. Each building with solar can contribute to the grid or be autonomous in case of grid collapse. No need for large power transmission lines.
dhrivnak
Active Member
This is brilliant. The very distributed nature of this system makes it easier to control power very close to the end user. They could even use the inverters to correct reactive power issues without having to resort to capacitor banks. This is assuming the utility maintains control over the inverters and batteries.
What's the point to having homes that can handle grid failures and storage where the users are?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
We in the US think of residential installations as being 2.5x as expensive as utility solar, but that's not reality in the rest of the world. Australian install rooftop solar for something around half our average cost, do it's not a massive leap up from utility scale price points.
The technology is inherently cheap, it's just expensive in the US as a byproduct of the way our economy works.
Not sure what you mean - it isn't cheap here either. I've installed 9.24kW of microinverters/panels that cost me around $20.5K - taking into account the current exchange rate it would have cost me USD16k - is that cheaper or more expensive than the States?
My fee for connection to the grid is $1.485 per day. I'm on TOU, my Peak Rate is $.286 per kWh, Shoulder is $.275, and Off-Peak is $.187. As a comparison, an all day rate would be $1.507 for grid connection and a rate of $.253 per kWh. What is it for you?
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Mokuzai
Member
In Southern Cali we did a 6.1kw system a few years ago. We had some minor roof repairs, a solar thermal system for the pool and a main panel upgrade bundled into the install. Total cost $32k before the 30% federal tax incentive.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
3 years ago I had a professional instal a 4kW system (on poles) and cost was US$21,000 (before tax credit) = about $5/W
Last year I did a DIY install of 2.5 kW (on roof) and cost was US$6,000 = about $2.5/W
(Both with Enphase microinverters)
Looks like you're getting low prices in Australia... except for electricity...
My electric rates are US$0.15/kW (net metering and no TOU) and grid connection is $7.5/month
mspohr
Well-Known Member
BTW, our local ski area (Squaw Valley) will be installing Tesla Powerpacks halfway up the hill to deal with grid instability and power failures.
Reported to be 8 MW (no word on Wh capacity). Apparently our local utility (Liberty Utilities) will be paying for the Powerpacks.
Reported to be 8 MW (no word on Wh capacity). Apparently our local utility (Liberty Utilities) will be paying for the Powerpacks.
Sounds like solar is more expensive - and our rates are high. Last July, South Australia had the highest cost of electricity in the world - luckily I don't live there. It would be a bit harder to justify the ROI for solar in the States. In Australia it is a no-brainer, I also get $.1287 in FIT (feed in tariff) for each kWh - which makes it even easier to justify the cost on installing solar (not batteries at this point - but I got one anyway for the backup capabilities). I'm averaging ~$100 dollars a month that the energy retailer is paying me.
any updates on powerwalls/powerpacks and VPP's? Is powerwall software able to link them into VPP for things like frequency regulation, shaving peaks otherwise done by peaker plants, flattening duck curve, anything? whats happening in Puerto Rico and 11,000 projects mentioned on Electrek Tesla has ‘about 11,000’ energy storage projects underway in Puerto Rico, says Elon Musk I suspect Tesla Energy will be much bigger than vehicles
An update on the VPP in Australia and how it helps
""....In a statement on Sunday, the state government hailed Tesla’s first VPP trials for “delivering cheaper energy to South Australians who need it most”, and increasing the reliability of the state’s energy network.
The results of those trials conducted by Tesla – obtained by RenewEconomy – show that groups of Tesla Powerwalls installed in homes can deliver much of the same services as the Tesla big battery in South Australia, such as providing rapid and accurate response to frequency changes.
This graph below shows how two Tesla Powerwalls (red and green), respond to so-called “droop settings” by autonomously and automatically injecting active power when the frequency (blue line) drops below the thresholds (dotted lines).
“This response demonstrates the ability of the SA VPP to autonomously and instantaneously provide frequency services that help maintain the stability of the grid,” the Tesla document says.
The South Australia government acknowledged this, saying that Phase 1 of the Tesla VPP (100 homes) demonstrates that distributed Powerwall technology can increase the supply of energy during peak periods.
Tesla builds case for 250MW virtual power plant after first trial success
""....In a statement on Sunday, the state government hailed Tesla’s first VPP trials for “delivering cheaper energy to South Australians who need it most”, and increasing the reliability of the state’s energy network.
The results of those trials conducted by Tesla – obtained by RenewEconomy – show that groups of Tesla Powerwalls installed in homes can deliver much of the same services as the Tesla big battery in South Australia, such as providing rapid and accurate response to frequency changes.
This graph below shows how two Tesla Powerwalls (red and green), respond to so-called “droop settings” by autonomously and automatically injecting active power when the frequency (blue line) drops below the thresholds (dotted lines).
“This response demonstrates the ability of the SA VPP to autonomously and instantaneously provide frequency services that help maintain the stability of the grid,” the Tesla document says.
The South Australia government acknowledged this, saying that Phase 1 of the Tesla VPP (100 homes) demonstrates that distributed Powerwall technology can increase the supply of energy during peak periods.
Tesla builds case for 250MW virtual power plant after first trial success
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