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Headlights effect on range???

Discussion in 'Model 3: Battery & Charging' started by daniel, Jun 28, 2018.

  1. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    So as I've posted elsewhere, I'm going to be taking a long road trip up to Canada soon. In Canada, it's highly recommended, if not actually required, to have your headlights on during the day.

    Can anybody tell me how much this will affect my range? I presume not a lot, since they are LEDs, but it would be nice to have an idea.

    Also, since this will be my first road trip in this car, and it will be summer, how much does A/C affect range? Should I use it sparingly, or is the effect minimal?
     
  2. cmaster

    cmaster Member

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    Barely, when you regen for 2 seconds, most likely it will generate enough energy to continue powering the headlights for 30 mins or more.
     
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  3. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Speed has the biggest impact on range. Next is the heater. Anything else is not worth thinking about.
     
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  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Non-measurable in normal driving.
     
  5. smartypnz

    smartypnz Supporting Member

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    No idea what the wattage is for the headlights, but you have approximately 80,000 watts of battery. So, if headlights were 400 watts (not likely since they are LED's) that would take 200 hours if just headlight usage.

    In Spain, some taxi drivers run without lights or wipers to save gas. Ever have any concern about that?
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    HID headlights are 70 W per pair. LEDs are far lower. This amount won't even register. Aerodynamic losses are the biggest followed by tire rolling resistance and drivetrain losses (especially when cold as the lubricant needs to be warm).
     
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  7. DannyHamilton

    DannyHamilton Member

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    I'm not sure what the power draw is on the LED headlights, but it's certainly going to be less than a comparable HID headlight. Lets assume for a moment that the entire lighting system will be 50 watts.

    Now, let's assume that your average speed will be 60 mph (sure you may drive faster on parts of the expressway, but you'll also encounter some slower traffic, and drive much slower while you're off the expressway).

    Finally, lets assume that your average efficiency is 230 Wh/mile.

    At an average speed of 60 mph, it will take you 0.01666 hours to drive 1 mile.

    50 watts * 0.01666 hours = 0.83 Wh/mile. So your trip will increase to 230.83 Wh/mile

    Assuming that you use 63.75 kilowatt hours per day on your road trip, your range for those 63.75 Watt hours will be reduced from:

    63,750 watt hours / 230 watt hours per mile = 277.174 miles

    to

    63,750 watt hours / 230.83 watt hours per mile = 276.177 miles

    Looks like (if my assumptions about speed, your personal efficiency, and the power draw of the lighting system are reasonable) those headlights could reduce your daily range by nearly a mile!
     
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    • Informative x 2
  8. tivoboy

    tivoboy Member

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    Is the heater equal to the AC or is that above the heater? In an ICE vehicle, heating is much easier and takes less power but in an EV not sure if heat takes more energy than AC.?
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Thanks for all the comments and numbers about headlights. Nobody mentioned A/C. Is that not a concern either? As for speed, I do know that's the biggest thing. There are no freeways on my route, other than Revelstoke to Golden, which is only 92 miles with superchargers at both ends. But the rest of my trip is on secondary roads where most of the time I could drive 70 mph if I wanted to risk the speeding tickets. (I won't do that. But much of the trip is pretty wide open.) I will be using TACC. The great thing about TACC is that it prevents inadvertent speed creep. CC does also, but TACC does not have to be disengaged every time there's a slower car ahead.

    Has anybody published numbers for wh/mile at, say, 55 mph and 65 mph?

    FWIW I have the standard wheels and the aero covers.
     
  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    ICE vehicles generate heat. EVs don’t so it takes power from the battery, much more than air conditioning does.
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    A/C's impact will be more noticeable for sure, but it still is not dramatic, in my experience, compared to using the heater. It also depends a lot on what temperature you have the AC set to and what the outside air temp is and how much direct sunlight you're getting (heating the cabin via greenhouse effect). I'd estimate that it increases the Wh/mi by 10-20 in my Model S and X roughly.
     
  12. Darmie

    Darmie Supporting Member

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    Does the model 3 have range mode? Noticed on the S when you select range mode, the driving lights are off during daytime. Wonder why Tesla thought that would help in range?
     
  13. Need

    Need Active Member

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    I don't think you need headlights on during the day in Canada. You just need daytime running light which Tesla already has. Now if you car doesn't have daytime running light, then you should turn headlights on.

    Heated seats and heat take a lot of juice to run. I had to tell my wife to turn off the heated seats one time... we got home with 17 miles left on the screen.
     
  14. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    You’ve got that backwards. Heated seats use much less energy than the heat. That’s why you should use the heated seats in winter, so you can set the temperature way down on the heater.
     
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  15. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    I don't know if the lights are required by law, but they definitely want you to have your headlights on, not just running lights. Headlights make the car more visible to other drivers. Running lights in the daytime have minimal effect on the visibility of the car.
     
  16. Need

    Need Active Member

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    Really? Oh.... good thing my wife doesn't read these forums.. :p Or I will never hear the end of it.."You made me turn off the heated seat for nothing???"
     
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  17. DannyHamilton

    DannyHamilton Member

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    Sure, but they still use a lot more energy than not having any heat at all.

    I assumed that he meant that he had already turned off the cabin heat, but was concerned that there still wasn't enough energy left in the battery to BOTH get home AND run the seat heater. Therefore he had her also turn off the seat heater (and suffer in the cold). Leaving the seat heater turned on certainly wasn't going to INCREASE his range.
     
  18. Need

    Need Active Member

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    Hmm... about that.. nope. I thought it was the heated seats using most of the juice. But I did have the car in Range Mode. Not sure if that limit heat AND heated seat? It kind of sucks when your family decided to go out 20 miles (40 miles round trip) for dinner and you realized that you only about about 70 miles left from day use :p
     
  19. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Hi, Evan. I'd kind of forgotten you were on here. Yeah, I know that A/C is less of an issue than heat. But I'd heard that A/C decreases the gas mileage on stinkers, so I figured it would have an effect on this car as well. Most of my trip is well within my range, but the Spokane to Kelowna leg is 243 miles, and I don't know what the terrain is like. I'll be driving up in early July, so it could get hot. I'll be wearing shorts and using as little A/C as I can without getting too uncomfortable.
     
  20. DannyHamilton

    DannyHamilton Member

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    Oh my! My sympathies to your wife. :(

    The seat heater heats the seat cushion, which in turn heats your body directly. Not a lot of losses there. The vast majority of the heat created goes directly into heating either you or your seat.

    The cabin heater heats air, which then spreads throughout the entire cabin heating the windows, the roof, the dashboard, the floor, the unoccupied seats, the doors, the center console, you, your passengers, etc. Much of the heat energy that was put into the floor, roof, windows, and doors then escapes to the outside. Only a very small percentage of all that heat actually makes it directly to your body. Therefore, a LOT more heat needs to be added to the air escaping the air vents for you to feel the same amount of heat directly to your body as you would from seat heaters.

    In terms of efficiency, if it's cold enough that you would like to be warmed up a bit, you should always start with the seat heater. Then if you still need a bit more warming, you can boost the cabin temperature until you feel comfortable. You should feel comfortable with a MUCH cooler cabin if your seat heaters are on than if they are off.
     
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