Hellcat Re-Match Results in beating P85D

[sorka]

Wow! Do we know if the Tesla driver also have drag radials? Would it make a difference? Also, was the Insane mode turned on? hahaha

No, because the Tesla has all wheel drive, so it doesn't need drag radials to get its best acceleration in street form

Not even remotely an apples to apples comparison.

The hellcat on street tires doesn't get better than 0-60 in 4.7 seconds:

We test the 2015 Dodge Challenger Hellcat from 0-60 MPH over over again - YouTube

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I'm pretty surprised to see the Tesla beaten on launch. I would not think there would be enough HP difference to make up for the instantaneous torque (but I am not an expert on this). I'd like to see a re-rematch knowing that the P85D had a full charge, good tires, and a clean start. I suspect the Hellcat would still win in the end, but I don't really believe it would win the launch.

When you have slicks and a torque converter, you can abuse the car to get a lot more launch torque than the SAE engine torque. Slicks totally change the game.

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The Hellcat is not dedicated to anything. It seats 5 people just like the Model S without those weird trunk seats. It drives plenty fine on the street, and even has a power level mode setting, like Sport and Insane mode on the P85D. The Hellcat isn't some drag racing car trailered in to the track, it's just as dedicated of a car as the Tesla is- not sure what your point is. I love my P85D but I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker like quite a few other Tesla owners I've met. Give credit where credit is due. The trap speed speaks volumes and the horsepower of the Hellcat obviously exceeds and beats the P85D. From a roll the P85D would be a spec in the mirror of the Hellcat.

At the end of the day, I'd never want to own the Hellcat and wouldn't ever trade it for the P85D. Because the Tesla is a much better all around car, plain and simple. I'm just a little tired of the people who say it can't beat a Hellcat and compare the P85D to supercars, because it can beat them for a few seconds from a dead stop. It's NOT the fastest sedan in the world. Maybe to 60. The hype is strong and it's getting old.

Fact of the matter the Tesla P85D is the best all around sedan in the world.. And it's not because it's quick to 60.. That's just a tiny reason.

Have you sat in the back of a challenger? Sure you can technically fit 3 people back there but it would get old real fast. Plus there's no cargo capacity by comparison. It's not really a practical family car. My Lexus coupe seats people in the back but you'd never want to subject people to that.

 

[krisg81]

Have you sat in the back of a challenger? Sure you can technically fit 3 people back there but it would get old real fast. Plus there's no cargo capacity by comparison. It's not really a practical family car. My Lexus coupe seats people in the back but you'd never want to subject people to that.

The better comparison would be the Charger Hellcat, which is actually faster than the Challenger Hellcat. That is actually considered the worlds fastest production sedan, as it can reach speeds of 204MPH. With the right traction and driver, it can run 10 second quarter miles all day long and trap 125MPH+. It is a very roomy car and can seat 5 people just as easily as my P85D. Cargo capacity is also impressive as the rear seats fold down. I know this because my friend has a Charger SRT.

 

[MikeBur]

Elon won't allow this

queue 2.8s 0-60 firmware and 440kW power ceiling lifted

I've now heard this come up a couple of times (the 2.8 number) and I heard from a Tesla employee that a day before the p85d reveal that the announcement was stating 2.8 (or was it 2.7?). I didn't put much credence in it, though it's been niggling at me for a while. Is there a source for this 2.8 number, or is it that whilst technically feasible, the warranty / reliability takes too much of a hit?

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The better comparison would be the Charger Hellcat, which is actually faster than the Challenger Hellcat. That is actually considered the worlds fastest production sedan, as it can reach speeds of 204MPH. With the right traction and driver, it can run 10 second quarter miles all day long and trap 125MPH+. It is a very roomy car and can seat 5 people just as easily as my P85D. Cargo capacity is also impressive as the rear seats fold down. I know this because my friend has a Charger SRT.

Would the better comparison not be a 2015 GTR? 0-60 in < 2.8 and AWD? Buddy and I were testing some theories and although limited to 3 launches per day the GTR can beat p85d in dry weather on perf tires. In wet/damp weather the traction control on GTR is less effective. He "track days" his GTR and wants to "spank me mercilessly going around a track", I graciously declined as I believe he will ;-)

 

[R²B]

*Note - Tesla shown is in Valet mode.

 

[Norbert]

Whats cool is the same guy who owns the Hellcat in this video, also owns the P85D. The owner was driving the Hellcat, his son was driving the P85D. I assume because the P85D is easy to drive fast and safer for his son to pilot that ride, versus the beastly 'Cat.

Well, without knowing them, that makes me wonder if son allowed dad to go first. Not a good set-up for an objective result.

 

[Law&Disorder]

You all seriously need to stop worrying about whether the latest 700+HP monster ICE car can take the P85D in a drag race. The Model S is inarguably the most advanced production car on the planet and it makes every other car on the road at any price point look last century. The P85D's insane mode acceleration is just one of the literally dozens of amazing things it does and the fact that a car that is purposely built for the singular purpose of putting up insane 1/4 mile times can beat the P85D in a drag race changes nothing about which car is superior.

 

[fiksegts]

The GT-R isn't limited to 3 launches per day...

Would the better comparison not be a 2015 GTR? 0-60 in < 2.8 and AWD? Buddy and I were testing some theories and although limited to 3 launches per day the GTR can beat p85d in dry weather on perf tires. In wet/damp weather the traction control on GTR is less effective. He "track days" his GTR and wants to "spank me mercilessly going around a track", I graciously declined as I believe he will ;-)

 

[jimmyjohn]

Any dedicated, souped-up high performance car that in all seriousness gets pitted against a 7 seater family sedan is already a laughing stock, regardless of the outcome of the race.

Lose / Lose Situation For Any ICE Vehicle.

If the ICE wins; who cares? This ICE is a drag race car --- with dubious reliability.

If the ICE losses; you just lost to a 7-passenger all-day daily-driver with a body that would make Marcello Gandini excited.

I could not agree with you more; all ICE vehicles would be wise to simply step aside. The evolution of Ferrari and other ICE manufacturers to a hybrid system is simply a veiled attempt to not admit that they are wrong... while admitting that they are wrong.

The Tesla Model S P85D will go down in history is as the official turning point.

 

[krisg81]

Would the better comparison not be a 2015 GTR? 0-60 in < 2.8 and AWD? Buddy and I were testing some theories and although limited to 3 launches per day the GTR can beat p85d in dry weather on perf tires. In wet/damp weather the traction control on GTR is less effective. He "track days" his GTR and wants to "spank me mercilessly going around a track", I graciously declined as I believe he will ;-)

Definitely not a good comparison to a GTR, because GTR is a sports car with limited usage other than performance, unlike a Hellcat (in both Challenger and Charger configurations) which could be used as a daily driver and haul a family and groceries around no problem, and actually rides very nicely. A GTR is more of a purpose built / street legal race car and would demolish the P85D in everything except 0-30MPH launches- even then, it would be pretty close if using launch control. Around a track, a GTR would destroy P85D almost instantly. In fact, the P85D around a track would likely best compare with a 250-300HP ICE like a Subaru because of its heavy weight and power reducing limp mode.

Based on the comments here, its really unfortunate there is little respect for other vehicles such as the Hellcat, and quite a bit of "high and mighty" pro-Tesla fan's cheering. It really is a shame, because most auto forums I frequent have a lot of auto enthusiasts with respect for other cars and their performance, and here- well, its a lot of "ICE vehicles better step aside!" "Tesla is the BEST!" "No comparison to the Tesla! Who cares if the ICE is faster, its old!"

:/

 

[Norbert]

A daily driver doesn't have drag radials and doesn't get the tires smoked before accelerating.

I understand that for a drag race you might do those things, but it is not a valid comparison of daily drivers. I'll speculate the father was desperate to show off his racer, and the son wasn't (especially regarding the start).

 

[krisg81]

A daily driver doesn't have drag radials and doesn't get the tires smoked before accelerating.

I understand that for a drag race you might do those things, but it is not a valid comparison of daily drivers. I'll speculate the father was desperate to show off his racer, and the son wasn't (especially regarding the start).

I daily drove quite a few cars over the years with Nitto drag radials no problem. Its the benefit of living in SoCal with amazing weather.

I am not getting the speculation/opinion that the "father was desperate to show off his racer" when he owns both cars himself. I doubt his son was perfectly modulating a launch to let his dad win. That is just a weird thing to say, sorry.

 

[MikeBur]

Definitely not a good comparison to a GTR, because GTR is a sports car with limited usage other than performance, unlike a Hellcat (in both Challenger and Charger configurations) which could be used as a daily driver and haul a family and groceries around no problem, and actually rides very nicely. A GTR is more of a purpose built / street legal race car and would demolish the P85D in everything except 0-30MPH launches- even then, it would be pretty close if using launch control. Around a track, a GTR would destroy P85D almost instantly. In fact, the P85D around a track would likely best compare with a 250-300HP ICE like a Subaru because of its heavy weight and power reducing limp mode.Based on the comments here, its really unfortunate there is little respect for other vehicles such as the Hellcat, and quite a bit of "high and mighty" pro-Tesla fan's cheering. It really is a shame, because most auto forums I frequent have a lot of auto enthusiasts with respect for other cars and their performance, and here- well, its a lot of "ICE vehicles better step aside!" "Tesla is the BEST!" "No comparison to the Tesla! Who cares if the ICE is faster, its old!" :/

Agreed on first paragraph, mostly, though like I said traction control gave more of an advantage than we expected.I presume the second paragraph was a general observation, and not mishearing what I said ;-). I'm a car fan first, though that my EV aligns with my other predilections and belief is a bonus

 

[Norbert]

I daily drove quite a few cars over the years with Nitto drag radials no problem. Its the benefit of living in SoCal with amazing weather.

I am not getting the speculation/opinion that the "father was desperate to show off his racer" when he owns both cars himself. I doubt his son was perfectly modulating a launch to let his dad win. That is just a weird thing to say, sorry.

You may be able to drive drag radials on the street, but few people do so, and certainly almost none smoke their tires for daily driving. That's just not how you compare daily drivers.

It unfairly removes the advantage of having 4 powered wheels.

 

[Footbag]

I've now heard this come up a couple of times (the 2.8 number) and I heard from a Tesla employee that a day before the p85d reveal that the announcement was stating 2.8 (or was it 2.7?). I didn't put much credence in it, though it's been niggling at me for a while. Is there a source for this 2.8 number, or is it that whilst technically feasible, the warranty / reliability takes too much of a hit?

@MikeBlur See this link.

 

[krisg81]

You may be able to drive drag radials on the street, but few people do so, and certainly almost none smoke their tires for daily driving. That's just not how you compare daily drivers.

It unfairly removes the advantage of having 4 powered wheels.

Norbert, I am going to go out on a limb and say you are not an auto performance enthusiast that has had many performance and highly modified cars in their time.

Drag Radials hook plenty fine on the street, without doing a burnout. Just driving a few miles as normal on a warm day works plenty fine. I could launch a 700HP Vette with minimal tire spin and no burnout just fine, getting 3 second 0-60's easily on the street.

The statement "unfairly removes the advantage of having 4 powered wheels" is just too funny to me- Whats unfair and how is it unfairly removing the advantage? Some would say having 4 powered wheels is "unfairly having the advantage" when racing a RWD car, because it takes more skill to launch a RWD car. Almost anyone can launch the P85D. Whats unfair then? Once again, another weird thing to say Mr. Norbert.

It's a tough crowd here, like car guys trying to have a conversation with the water polo crowd. Very uncomfortable to say the least.

 

[GSP]

Definitely not a good comparison to a GTR, because GTR is a sports car with limited usage other than performance, unlike a Hellcat (in both Challenger and Charger configurations) which could be used as a daily driver and haul a family and groceries around no problem, and actually rides very nicely. A GTR is more of a purpose built / street legal race car and would demolish the P85D in everything except 0-30MPH launches- even then, it would be pretty close if using launch control. Around a track, a GTR would destroy P85D almost instantly. In fact, the P85D around a track would likely best compare with a 250-300HP ICE like a Subaru because of its heavy weight and power reducing limp mode.

Based on the comments here, its really unfortunate there is little respect for other vehicles such as the Hellcat, and quite a bit of "high and mighty" pro-Tesla fan's cheering. It really is a shame, because most auto forums I frequent have a lot of auto enthusiasts with respect for other cars and their performance, and here- well, its a lot of "ICE vehicles better step aside!" "Tesla is the BEST!" "No comparison to the Tesla! Who cares if the ICE is faster, its old!"

:/

I agree. Any car can deserve respect. I do really love and respect antiques like Dusenbergs and Hellcats. :biggrin:

GSP

 

[Norbert]

It unfairly removes the advantage of having 4 powered wheels.

And, probably, that of having a smooth power source with millisecond traction control.

---

@MikeBlur See this link.

Which to me means that Tesla will keep working on demonstrating the advantages of electric drive trains in this way:
- easily achievable good acceleration
- smooth power and fine-grained traction control
- great to use for all-wheel drives (using two motors).

- EDIT: Plus, when you fully accelerate the P85D (as in my recent test drive), it remains smooth and controllable, unlike an ICE where at those accelerations you wonder whether the world falls apart.

I'm sure if Elon writes such a tweet, 2.8 sec will happen sooner or later.

Specifically track racing requires improved battery tech, electronics and/or cooling, which of course they (and Panasonic for example) are working on as well. Whether that will become a product any time soon, however, is a different question. Focus in those areas is surely more on range/cost.

 

[krisg81]

I agree. Any car can deserve respect. I do really love and respect antiques like Dusenbergs and Hellcats. :biggrin:

GSP

Whats up with the copyright verbiage on your signature? Thats a first i've never seen on forums. Are you really worried someone is going to use your comment somewhere for profit purposes? Only on TMC I guess...

 

[Norbert]

Whats up with the copyright verbiage on your signature? Thats a first i've never seen on forums. Are you really worried someone is going to use your comment somewhere for profit purposes? Only on TMC I guess...

Newspaper articles and car magazine websites have used posts on TMC out of context to paint a picture not reflecting the original meaning of those posts. This has actually happened multiple times in places with larger audiences.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Whats up with the copyright verbiage on your signature? Thats a first i've never seen on forums. Are you really worried someone is going to use your comment somewhere for profit purposes? Only on TMC I guess...

There was a dustup many months back where journalists (using the term loosely) were mining the forum for negative quotes about Tesla from owners.