Hellcat Re-Match Results in beating P85D

[Norbert]

I'm on my second Tesla, went from a P85 to a P85D and I have a guy in here arguing with me about being on the wrong website because I shouldn't be discussing drag races in a performance version of the Model S, but rather talking about smog and environment benefits. I have a P85D primarily for performance reasons, because it's awesome in that category- other features such as using electricity instead of gas is secondary. The electric motor and power delivery is why I have this car right now. For someone who types thousands of posts and has not dropped a penny on the car that tells me I'm in the wrong place is hilarious to me, hence the LOL.

I'm saying I could reply that you may be on the wrong website *if* you think you can have this discussion involving a factory Model S *and* exclude someone like me from that discussion.

I don't intend to discuss environmental questions in this thread, but I am saying there will be people posting in this thread whose primary interest are electric drive trains, rather than anything with four wheels, and they will naturally have more metrics than just the bare time, in the first place.

It seems you understand neither this website, nor what I am saying.

 

[krisg81]

I'm saying I could reply that you may be on the wrong website *if* you think you can have this discussion involving a factory Model S *and* exclude someone like me from that discussion.

I don't intend to discuss environmental questions in this thread, but I am saying there will be people posting in this thread whose primary interest are electric drive trains, rather than anything with four wheels, and they will naturally have more metrics than just the bare time, in the first place.

It seems you understand neither this website, nor what I am saying.

You are right. I seriously do not understand what you are talking about.

Anyway, about that Hellcat vs P85D video. I can't help but imagine what a beast the P85D would be once the full 691HP is unlocked, and if they eventually offer a 2 speed gear box. All it needs is one more gear after 60MPH or so, and the car would pull like a madman and stay in its power band. I'm willing to bet 120+MPH traps would be easy with another gear.

 

[Norbert]

You are right. I seriously do not understand what you are talking about.

Glad we settled that.

Update: BTW, I used to be one of those who argued Tesla should build a performance oriented four wheel drive version, long before it was an official plan to build any four wheel drive.

Another update: Since you say I "didn't drop a penny on the car"... I still do have $5000 Model S reservation. LOL.

 

[commasign]

hehe

so basically

*putting fingers on ears*

"la-la-la i cant hear youuu"

Was more commenting about social media and viral videos in general. Yes, all the Tesla fanboys will obviously watch the rematch video and will know that the Hellcat beats the P85D. But that's not the video that went viral or will be remembered (except by Hellcat fans cause they were embarrassed by the first video).

 

[ZsoZso]

The fact that the hellcat got the jump on the Tesla right from the start tells me that the Tesla driver was sleeping at the wheel and not paying attention to the start lights. I have no problem with the cat beating the P85D in the total race, but I cannot understand how any ICE can beat the initial full torque of the P85D.

When the first video went viral, lots of people blamed the cat driver for bad start, even though it was completely rational that the Tesla should have the better start. In this race the cat driver had the perfect start but the P85D driver messed up the start.

 

[WarpedOne]

it is pretty obvious to anyone that actually looks at the video that MS driver started badly.
Me on my bycicle can beat a drag with a F1 when F1 driver forgets to actually start.

 

[Matias]

This is not pointed to anyone specially, but the whole thread;

So 700+ hp muscle car with special tires warmed up in burn up beat Tesla in drag race. What is the problem?

 

[Thud]

The fact that the hellcat got the jump on the Tesla right from the start tells me that the Tesla driver was sleeping at the wheel and not paying attention to the start lights. I have no problem with the cat beating the P85D in the total race, but I cannot understand how any ICE can beat the initial full torque of the P85D.

When the first video went viral, lots of people blamed the cat driver for bad start, even though it was completely rational that the Tesla should have the better start. In this race the cat driver had the perfect start but the P85D driver messed up the start.

An ICE can get instant full torque on launch too, it's just a lot harder. For an auto transmission you need to brake-torque, and for a manual you need to get the launch RPM's just right and drop the clutch. Launch control in modern ICE's does a lot of the thinking for you though.

The difference is that the P85D is also easy to live with every day.

 

[sandpiper]

it is pretty obvious to anyone that actually looks at the video that MS driver started badly.
Me on my bycicle can beat a drag with a F1 when F1 driver forgets to actually start.

That's what it seemed to me. It looked like the MS guy asleep at the switch for a couple of tenths. No biggie. I didn't buy the car to drag race, but it sure is nice to show people that an EV can have everything - practicality, performance, comfort, etc. The P85D does that in spades.

 

[ecarfan]

Ok, so you have 4,376 posts here and do not even have a Tesla? When I type LOL, I am usually not laughing out loud- its just a thing I put online.. but in this case, I am truly "laughing out loud" when I put this... LOL !

No reason for the "LOL". @Norbert is obviously an admirer of Tesla, and even if he was not, he is welcome here to discuss all things Tesla, including its performance capabilities.

it is pretty obvious to anyone that actually looks at the video that MS driver started badly.

I believe the owner of the Tesla and the Hellcat in the video stated in the YouTube video description that multiple runs were made and the outcome was consistent. The Hellcat won. Here is what someone posted up thread, a quote from the YouTube description:
--------------------------
I own both cars and the Hellcat did win 6 out of 6 races only by about a half of a second each time, so this was no fluke video. However, make no mistake THIS TESLA ROCKS YOUR WORLD. Tesla 60 foot times are heart stopping hard pulls. Think about this . . . . the Hellcat (the most powerful muscle car ever made) ran in the 11's on this video just like the Tesla but the Tesla will do that on Any Surface, Any Temperature, Any Altitude, Anywhere, Anytime even on wet pavement. It makes 891 foot pounds of torque and scrambles your brains off the line. The TESLA is a GAME CHANGER for sure !! Both cars are EPIC cars !!"
---------------------------

 

[DoctorV8]

The fact that the hellcat got the jump on the Tesla right from the start tells me that the Tesla driver was sleeping at the wheel and not paying attention to the start lights. I have no problem with the cat beating the P85D in the total race, but I cannot understand how any ICE can beat the initial full torque of the P85D.

When the first video went viral, lots of people blamed the cat driver for bad start, even though it was completely rational that the Tesla should have the better start. In this race the cat driver had the perfect start but the P85D driver messed up the start.

The reaction time does not affect the elapsed time posted at the end of the race. While reaction times matter in sanctioned races, the ET of the Hellcat and P85D here would have been no different if the Tesla driver waited until the Hellcat finished before he started.

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I daily drove quite a few cars over the years with Nitto drag radials no problem. Its the benefit of living in SoCal with amazing weather.

Same here in Houston. Don't lose all faith in this forum; there are other motorhead/non TM fanboys here too! (I actually ordered a P85D and a 6 speed Jazz Blue Challenger Hellcat at the same time last year, but the Tesla showed up in January, and the Hellcat is just now being built.....)

 

[krisg81]

The fact that the hellcat got the jump on the Tesla right from the start tells me that the Tesla driver was sleeping at the wheel and not paying attention to the start lights. I have no problem with the cat beating the P85D in the total race, but I cannot understand how any ICE can beat the initial full torque of the P85D.

When the first video went viral, lots of people blamed the cat driver for bad start, even though it was completely rational that the Tesla should have the better start. In this race the cat driver had the perfect start but the P85D driver messed up the start.

This is such a great post showing how many people here simply do not come from an auto performance background. There are truly people here who just cannot believe an ICE vehicle can beat the P85D off the line? Let's not even get into the full blown ICE dragsters that go 6-7s in the 1/4 mile. I don't want to go down that path.

I'll tell you I've had a few ICE vehicles myself that were faster than the P85D off the line or very comparable.

Example, I had a 2004 Chevy Silverado SS (AWD) that I had a big supercharger on it that put down 645HP to all 4 wheels- that was well over 760 motor HP. Using a Gtech Pro, I would scratch off 3.0-3.1 second 0-60s no problem. On regular Toyo street tires, I'd run 11.1-11.2 1/4 miles no problem, with 1.5-1.6 60' times. A TRUCK. A truck that would hang with the P85D off the line (maybe slightly beat it), slam you back off the line, and even pull on the P85D in the 1/4 mile because it trapped at 118-119MPH all the time. My point is, the P85D is fast, but it's not the be-all-end-all performance car that no ICE can hang with.

Some of you guys need to get off the soap box, sad to say. It's kind of embarrassing as someone who is a fan of the Tesla brand. This is literally one of the only auto manufacturer forums I frequent that is so biased, so hard headed, and no offense- arrogant about their cars. Performance junkies like myself have had many many cars and respect other vehicles as we all share the same passion, automotive performance. The eco and smog friendly guys share the same passion as a tree hugger and that's fine. Apples and Oranges. We have two sides of the coin here and that's fine as well. Just be realistic and less arrogant.

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Same here in Houston. Don't lose all faith in this forum; there are other motorhead/non TM fanboys here too! (I actually ordered a P85D and a 6 speed Jazz Blue Challenger Hellcat at the same time last year, but the Tesla showed up in January, and the Hellcat is just now being built.....)

Thats awesome man !! Enjoy the Hellcat, that's a great combo right there. I'm trying not to lose faith, it's just a totally different crowd here. I had to laugh when a guy a few posts back called drag radials "special" tires, like they are some magical secret item handed down from God. Lol.

 

[WarpedOne]

I believe the owner of the Tesla and the Hellcat in the video stated in the YouTube video description that multiple runs were made and the outcome was consistent

That does not make it a property of the car.
Put two p85D side by side with same SOC and history (hence same temps) and one might consistently win - driver factor.
There is this technique for launching the p85d properly: you do not step on the accelerator but you lift your foot off the accelerator and then smash it as hard as you can all the way to the floor. It matters how *fast* and hard one stomps the pedal.

What happens if you step on accelerator and brakes fully at the same time and then release only the brake pedal? Does it launch?

Clutch drop at max RPM with enough traction (and strong enough everything) in a powerful ICE should beat P85D that has to first start to spin everything up.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Kris, no offensive intended, but you do like to stir the pot a bit here. Some of your posts seem designed to provoke the kinds of responses your are complaining about. On the 691 HP thread you changed your story a couple of times when presented with data. For that matter I don't think a single person said the P85D was the pinnacle of performance cars. Maybe tone down the straw men?

As for "special tires": were they stock? Were the P85D tires stock? Then comparatively they were special.

 

[Norbert]

Thats awesome man !! Enjoy the Hellcat, that's a great combo right there. I'm trying not to lose faith, it's just a totally different crowd here. I had to laugh when a guy a few posts back called drag radials "special" tires, like they are some magical secret item handed down from God. Lol.

So over in this article (Dodge Charger Hellcat hitting 60 in 2.9 seconds on drag radials? ),
I'm reading that with drag radials, the charger hellcat is "not only the fastest sedan on the market, but also the fastest muscle car.".

Can I take away from this discussion that with regular street tires on both cars, charger and P85D, one can expect the P85D to win a drag race?

 

[qwertzy]

If you are going to compare modified ICE dragsters than compare them to the electric miata or the Zombie 222.

The Tesla is a production sedan and the only car that can improve acceleration and performance via OTA update.

 

[Charles85D]

This is such a great post showing how many people here simply do not come from an auto performance background. There are truly people here who just cannot believe an ICE vehicle can beat the P85D off the line? Let's not even get into the full blown ICE dragsters that go 6-7s in the 1/4 mile. I don't want to go down that path.

I'll tell you I've had a few ICE vehicles myself that were faster than the P85D off the line or very comparable.

Example, I had a 2004 Chevy Silverado SS (AWD) that I had a big supercharger on it that put down 645HP to all 4 wheels- that was well over 760 motor HP. Using a Gtech Pro, I would scratch off 3.0-3.1 second 0-60s no problem. On regular Toyo street tires, I'd run 11.1-11.2 1/4 miles no problem, with 1.5-1.6 60' times. A TRUCK. A truck that would hang with the P85D off the line (maybe slightly beat it), slam you back off the line, and even pull on the P85D in the 1/4 mile because it trapped at 118-119MPH all the time. My point is, the P85D is fast, but it's not the be-all-end-all performance car that no ICE can hang with.

Some of you guys need to get off the soap box, sad to say. It's kind of embarrassing as someone who is a fan of the Tesla brand. This is literally one of the only auto manufacturer forums I frequent that is so biased, so hard headed, and no offense- arrogant about their cars. Performance junkies like myself have had many many cars and respect other vehicles as we all share the same passion, automotive performance. The eco and smog friendly guys share the same passion as a tree hugger and that's fine. Apples and Oranges. We have two sides of the coin here and that's fine as well. Just be realistic and less arrogant.

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Thats awesome man !! Enjoy the Hellcat, that's a great combo right there. I'm trying not to lose faith, it's just a totally different crowd here. I had to laugh when a guy a few posts back called drag radials "special" tires, like they are some magical secret item handed down from God. Lol.

I agree with StoneyMonster here. Although it is true that you will have Tesla enthusiasts in this forum being biased because it is after all a Tesla Forum, I don't think that "arrogant" is the right term to describe other posters here. Misinformation on both Tesla supporters and Ice supporters creates resentment and endless debate . Anyways, let's call it what it is here on the Hellcat vs. Tesla P85D:

1.) Hellcat is arguably one of the most powerful/affordable mass production ice cars on the market.
2.) Tesla P85D is currently the fastest electric mass production vehicle on the market
3.) If you race a completely stock Hellcat vs. stock P85D, the Hellcat will lose. That is simply because you can not put all of the power of the Hellcat into the ground off the line. That is why modifications are needed. Nothing wrong with modding the Hellcat, its just that Tesla has put out a great stock AWD product.
4.) If you race a non-stock Hellcat (yes, that includes changing to wider tires) with a stock P85D, then yes the Hellcat can win.

It's about as simple as that. If you put money 10k-100k into a toyota camry, scion, regular truck, or suv, it could all potentially beat a p85d or a stock m5 or a stock gtr, or if you put a ton of money you may even beat a veyron. But I don't think that's what people are talking about here.

 

[krisg81]

Kris, no offensive intended, but you do like to stir the pot a bit here. Some of your posts seem designed to provoke the kinds of responses your are complaining about. On the 691 HP thread you changed your story a couple of times when presented with data. For that matter I don't think a single person said the P85D was the pinnacle of performance cars. Maybe tone down the straw men?

As for "special tires": were they stock? Were the P85D tires stock? Then comparatively they were special.

I never changed any of my story, you may have interpreted what I said differently. As I have spent more time with the car I have just noticed more information I could present. Not trying to stir the pot at all, I am just used to discussions with like-minded performance enthusiasts and the atmosphere is definitely different here. I think many people come from regular/non-performance cars in the past, and the EV crowd is a much different animal than I am used to. Kind of like talking shop and performance with Prius and Volt owners. As EV's get more and more popular, and the prices go down and they are more widely adopted and have a performance aftermarket, those groups of people will come over- but as for now, it seems like the eco-friendly pro-environment crowd is the majority vs. the performance crowd.

If you are going to compare modified ICE dragsters than compare them to the electric miata or the Zombie 222.

The Tesla is a production sedan and the only car that can improve acceleration and performance via OTA update.

I haven't seen a OTA update come out yet that improves performance- just a tweet. Not that I don't think its possible, but lets see what happens.

Updating cars via electronic updates is something I have been doing for many many years. A handheld tuner or even software on a laptop can re-flash any ICE vehicle with an OBD2 port. I have tuned and received tunes for vehicles that are emailed anywhere in the world and uploaded into the car, adding HP via electronic updates. Its nothing new, but a manufacture updating performance with a firmware update using OEM hardware? That definitely is awesome. Let's just see if it actually happens (which I don't doubt)

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I agree with StoneyMonster here. Although it is true that you will have Tesla enthusiasts in this forum being biased because it is after all a Tesla Forum, I don't think that "arrogant" is the right term to describe other posters here. Misinformation on both Tesla supporters and Ice supporters creates resentment and endless debate . Anyways, let's call it what it is here on the Hellcat vs. Tesla P85D:

1.) Hellcat is arguably one of the most powerful/affordable mass production ice cars on the market.
2.) Tesla P85D is currently the fastest electric mass production vehicle on the market
3.) If you race a completely stock Hellcat vs. stock P85D, the Hellcat will lose. That is simply because you can not put all of the power of the Hellcat into the ground off the line. That is why modifications are needed. Nothing wrong with modding the Hellcat, its just that Tesla has put out a great stock AWD product.
4.) If you race a non-stock Hellcat (yes, that includes changing to wider tires) with a stock P85D, then yes the Hellcat can win.

It's about as simple as that. If you put money 10k-100k into a toyota camry, scion, regular truck, or suv, it could all potentially beat a p85d or a stock m5 or a stock gtr, or if you put a ton of money you may even beat a veyron. But I don't think that's what people are talking about here.

Charles, the Hellcat is stock. No mods that beat the P85D. The only thing it had were completely street legal drag radial tires (NOT drag slicks) on the back.. that's still considered stock.

 

[Stoneymonster]

as for now, it seems like the eco-friendly pro-environment crowd is the majority vs. the performance crowd.

This shouldn't be a surprise. It also shouldn't be a surprise that if you come to a forum devoted (and Tesla owners are crazy crazy devoted, more so than any other mark) to a particular car, that maybe the people there will defend their vehicle, perhaps more than is rational or warranted sometimes, yes. After all, this isn't a general performance car forum, it's a Tesla forum. And Teslas are EVs, if you knew the sorry history of EV development and even the current FUD that still circulates, you'd understand the passionate defenses.

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Charles, the Hellcat is stock. No mods that beat the P85D. The only thing it had were completely street legal drag radial tires (NOT drag slicks) on the back.. that's still considered stock.

Honest question, what would be the outcome if the P85D had drag radials that had just been burned out prior to the race?

 

[Charles85D]

My apologies for using the term "stock" wrong, but I think you knew what I meant from the context of my previous message. It seems like you have a lot of experience with performance and ICE cars and have expressed your disappointment that most Tesla owners are not "like minded performance enthusiasts." I think that the demographic here in this forum is definitely different. You will find people from all walks of life (executive, family man/woman, engineer, early tech enthusiasts, independently wealthy, etc.). You won't only find performance people here like the other forums because the model S isn't sold just as a performance product. I actually think that's a win for Tesla owners and Tesla because it means that the electric revolution is working.