HELP: CPO 85 or New 75D?

[JimmyMcNulty]

My understanding is that in general Tesla low balls people on trade ins. I could be 100% wrong.

It seems you've changed your thought process slightly.

To me: used RWD vs new AWD = no brainer given that you're going into the mountains
Get the new AWD

However,
New AWD vs used AWD with bigger battery?

That's a tough call, especially since you said you value "value"

However, with the 90D at $85,000, I would instead get a new 90D with no upgrades except maybe subzero.

Base 90D no options is $89,9500.
-$7500 tax credit
-$1000 referral

=$81,4500

Cheaper than your CPO.
You can always add EAP and FSD later

This is similar to how I reasoned myself into / justified a brand new 90D.

I was originally looking at CPO 85.

Then I realized I might as well get a brand new 60 or 60D, with AP2.0 hardware which will be relevant for many years.

75 or 75D was never really a consideration for me, since I could charge the 60D to 100%.

Then I realized, a 90D without bells and whistles is not too bad, for the range AND performance you're getting. So I ordered it, metallic silver, pano sunroof, textile seats, done – that's it.

Delivery date kept getting pushed, and my OA let me know that the same exact car came off the line as inventory, with gray next gen leather seats. I do need the car for work, so I ended up saying yes. Picking up tomorrow at the factory.

 

[Grossie]

I would go new 75D

Don't underestimate the value of AWD in snow. Also, don't underestimate the subzero package. If you're doing any real winter driving it's fricking awesome. The heated steering wheel alone is worthwhile, but the wiper defrost and 5 heated seats really seal the deal there. The interior heating in the car is just so-so, but if you have all the heated elements in the winter you're good.

Not sure what options you're looking at but I would also suggest the pano roof especially since transponders don't work through the Tesla windshield. Using tolls is much easier when you can slide the roof open 20% and hold the transponder out rather than open your window and stick your arm in front of the car.

Hope this helps. Good luck. There's no way you're going to sell this when the model 3 becomes available!

 

[Footer]

A 60D with only EAP and subzero puts you at $71,500 after tax rebate. The 90D adds $16,500 more.

My I-Pass works fine mounted in the black area next to the camera.

You have lots of options. Pick one that works best for you.

 

[abasile]

@abasile the 75s and 75Ds that are discounted are AP1 cars, hence the discount. I'm ok with AP1 and I'm not the kind of car buyer that purchases options for the purpose of improving resale value.

I agree that you should look for the options you want, not the ones you think someone else might want.

But it seems to me that AP2 potentially represents a quantum leap beyond AP1. Having a car that can truly drive itself would be huge! Think of all of the scenarios where that could be valuable. For me, that would be the primary deciding factor here. Having AWD would simply be icing on the cake.

The reason I'm okay without AP on our pre-owned S85 is that we paid much less than we would have for a newer car.

 

[roblab]

In four years' experience, I have needed and used extra range far more than I have needed or wanted to use any form of autopilot. I bought the most range I could get, and I have AP1. Almost every week I am glad I have the extra range. And time after time, I drive down the road with my TACC on and the AP1 off. TACC does just about all you need. AP1 is just about fluff except maybe on 400 mile drives to LA.

It never ceases to amaze me that newbies always want to pick the exciting "AP2 hardware" over simply being able to go farther without having to find a charger. I just read here that someone at an airport got back from a 3 week trip to find his car was down to 19 miles. Or someone says he can barely make it to his nearest supercharger. And then a few more people want to buy a 60.

Really, folks. Range is the holy grail. AP2 is not necessary, as we all know by looking back 100 years. Well, it may be more safe, but that's a comment on whom we license, and how poorly we drive (inattentive, tired, angry, distracted, etc., etc.) But range is probably still more important than bad drivers.

Spend your extra bucks on bigger batteries and 4WD. And drive safer by maybe slowing down and getting more range. Oh, yeah, can't be done, the speed limit on the interstate is 75 and people do 90 and I must follow....

 

[justg0]

I think you need see what is more important to you - range vs. comforts (leather seats, sub zero, pano), AP1 vs. AP2, RWD vs. AWD. I had a similar decision just 2 weeks back regarding AP1 vs. AP2 (AP1 vs. AP2) and even though I could argue financially I should pick up an AP1 inventory vehicle, in my heart I wanted AP2, so that's what I went with. I also chose leather seats, pano, subzero, premium 75D over barebones 90D as I value that more in my daily driving and found 75D range enough for me.

So you need to decide for yourself what are non negotiable options for you. I had a budget, which I went over as I love driving and I wanted a car that I would want to drive each and every day.

 

[KJD]

• Family of 4
• Very low daily mileage (10-20 per day)
• Want to go on road trips during the summer and drive to the mountains in the winter
• Tesla will be the only car

The correct answer is not listed in your poll and that would be the 90D.

 

[carter_seattle]

The correct answer is not listed in your poll and that would be the 90D.

The 90D is nice, but takes us from ~$72k up to ~$86k for a CPO. I'm struggling to justify the difference given a 75 kWh battery should work just fine if I plan and drive properly. I'm a Leaf owner, so I'm no stranger to this

 

[JRMW]

If you lived with a Leaf, it seems that a new 60 D or 75D would have everything you need and more.

The CPO cars you've listed are more value, but you're paying for bells and whistles you don't need or value

Check your mountain trip. IF it can be done easily with Superchargers and a 60D:
Get a new 60D
$73,000
-$1000 referral
-$7500 federal rebate.

$64,500

This is cheaper than everything you've discussed to date
I think the 60D is the best value that Tesla has ever had.
You get 15 kWh for "free"
Can't use the range, but it helps with charging and probably battery life.

If needed you can unlock the 75 battery, the EAP, and the FSD in the future

If a 60D can't get you up the mountain,
Get the new 90D

Don't pay money now in the hopes that it'll resell later... unless you value the upgrade

FWIW
I had a lot of same concerns
I went with 60D. Next Gen seats. All glass. EAP. Subzero
In the end those upgrades were of more value TO ME than range, since I don't road trip.

 

[carter_seattle]

So, I love to build spreadsheets. Here's one I built to estimate the true cost of owning either a new or CPO Telsa for the next 24 months. Some assumptions:

• CPO will trade-in at 78% of price after 2-years.
• New will trade-in at 70% of price after 2-years (after factoring out $7500 fed rebate).
• For "true" monthly cost, I am factoring-in the equity built by the time the trade-in happens (trade-in value - loan balance) and the tax savings on my next Tesla by trading in.

Food for thought. It confirms my intuition that buying a new car is more "expensive" when you account for depreciation.

 

[notsoice]

I have the S75D and I love it. I would choose it over the CPO 85 primarily because it's a newer build, love the facelift and it as AP. Also because I don't like buying used.

If you order a new S75D, you'll get AP2.0 hardware and if you beat the Jan. 1/17 deadline you will have unlimited Supercharger access.

As a side comment, even though you don't do a lot of driving day-to-day now, I guarantee you will want to drive the Tesla any chance you get and even look for reasons to take it out!

Good luck!

 

[KJD]

If you trade in a car after only 2 years then yes you are going to lose a lot of money. The major drive train components of my 2012 are warranted for 8 years and I plan to keep it that long.

The longer you keep the car, the lower your cost per mile of ownership. Something to think about.

 

[carter_seattle]

If you trade in a car after only 2 years then yes you are going to lose a lot of money. The major drive train components of my 2012 are warranted for 8 years and I plan to keep it that long.

The longer you keep the car, the lower your cost per mile of ownership. Something to think about.

As I mentioned at the top, I'm planning to trade in for a Model 3. Hence the 2 year window.

 

[justg0]

As I mentioned at the top, I'm planning to trade in for a Model 3. Hence the 2 year window.

Then for sure go with CPO. Look for something 3+ years to minimize loss on depreciation unless you want AP1.

 

[carter_seattle]

Then for sure go with CPO. Look for something 3+ years to minimize loss on depreciation unless you want AP1.

All the cars I'm looking at, including the CPOs, have AP1.

 

[justg0]

All the cars I'm looking at, including the CPOs, have AP1.

I meant if you don't care for AP1, you can get CPO under 60k and they will depreciate even less.

 

[Troy]

@carter_seattle,

What date does the Model 3 delivery estimator show when you enter your data? Your 24 months cost of ownership plan doesn't look realistic to me because it is likely that you will have your Model 3 sooner than that. Why would you want to continue driving an AP1.0 S75D with 259 miles rated range for an additional year after your AP2.0 Model 3 75D with 304 mi rated range is ready to purchase?

Tesla is ramping up hiring at the Gigafactory. By the end of Q2 2017, before the Model 3 production starts, they will have 1850 employees according to this article. I'm not suggesting that Model 3 production will start on July 1st, 2017 as planned but I think it will start in September 2017. Also check out Elon's comments here explaining why the Model 3 won't be late like the Model X.

 

[Footer]

So, I love to build spreadsheets. Here's one I built to estimate the true cost of owning either a new or CPO Telsa for the next 24 months. Some assumptions:

• CPO will trade-in at 78% of price after 2-years.
• New will trade-in at 70% of price after 2-years (after factoring out $7500 fed rebate).
• For "true" monthly cost, I am factoring-in the equity built by the time the trade-in happens (trade-in value - loan balance) and the tax savings on my next Tesla by trading in.

Food for thought. It confirms my intuition that buying a new car is more "expensive" when you account for depreciation.

Looks like the Seattle CPO 90D is gone. The Chicago 90D is still there and that is equipped as well as the 85. If you figure it only cost $4000 more than the 85 it's worth it. A comparably equipped inventory 75 should be more than $5K cheaper than a 75D because there are more available and the discounts are higher. You are looking at the New York Pearl White AP2 90D? Note that it doesn't say EAP is enabled, because it's not. You will have to kick in another $5K to get it.

There is a very nicely equipped CPO 85D for $73.5K. You should add it to your list. I think it will serve you better than the 85.

As you were considering in your first post, keep the car for 4 years through the warranty period and save yourself some depreciation cost. Your family will definitely like the car well enough.

 

[JRMW]

Your numbers on new cars look high to me.

Does your spreadsheet include $7500 tax rebate and $1000 referral bonus?

Because that pulls $8500 off the new cars immediately

As I showed earlier you can get a new 60D for under $65k... and a new 75D for $71k and a new 90D for $81k
(That's $18k cheaper than your spreadsheet )

Nonetheless, I usually read the tone of people's arguments when trying to help them make a decision.

your tone is strongly in favor of getting a CPO car. thus I think you should do that!

In the end you can't go wrong here. Any Tesla you buy will be orders of magnitude better than your Leaf and orders of magnitude more expensive too!

I would first choose the Tesla that works best for your family. I personally think an AWD is mandatory for mountain winter driving

Then decide what's more important to you...
Do you value new? Gizmos? Luxury add on? Speed ?

Go with your gut here. because buying a depreciating luxury items is never a wise financial move!

Happy trails

 

[carter_seattle]

buying a depreciating luxury items is never a wise financial move!

Truth.

To be clear, I did account for the $8500. But it's the 30% depreciation after 2 years that swings the TCO number. Unless they execute deeper discounts, I'll probably stick to CPO and see if any more 90Ds show up.