Help deciding 60kw or 85kw

[Earthdog]

Ok, I'm convinced for an 85kw. However, you all are really worrying me about the lack of range on the 85kw and also the battery degradation.

Now I need to find out the details of the battery warranty. If you are looking at a loss of 5-10% in capacity each year that's crazy! I hope I am misunderstanding.

 

[AlMc]

Ok, I'm convinced for an 85kw. However, you all are really worrying me about the lack of range on the 85kw and also the battery degradation.

Now I need to find out the details of the battery warranty. If you are looking at a loss of 5-10% in capacity each year that's crazy! I hope I am misunderstanding.

You misunderstood. Degradation about 2%/year. Battery warranty on 85s is 8 years, unlimited mileage. If you can swing it I would go with 85. There are lots of people who love their 60s and there is not a 'bad' S configuration IMO. But I have not read a thread where someone says, 'I have an 85, wish I got a 60'. There is evidence on this thread and others that their is some angst over not having gotten the 85.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

Unless money is really the primary issue, I would recommend an 85. Having that extra range and extra power, plus free super charger access just gives you more flexibility and piece of mind over the lifetime of the car.

 

[liuping]

Ok, I'm convinced for an 85kw. However, you all are really worrying me about the lack of range on the 85kw and also the battery degradation.

I would not worry excessively about degradation, especially since you said your daily commute is 40 miles

An 85 kWh battery should still have more range than a new 60 even after 8 years (conservatively assuming 3% degradation per year), so with the supercharger network in place, long trips will still be fine as well.

 

[qwk]

Another thing to consider would be the climate you live in. The car will use quite a bit more power in below freezing temperatures.

 

[montgom626]

85 kW

 

[brianman]

@Discoducky - Weigh in please with your thoughts on the 60 kWh.

 

[Apoclyps]

first off, I am an idiot. I tried responding to this thread, but got sidetracked on another thread and ended up responding there.

60kw upgrade to 85kw, Was told by multiple Tesla Sources not possible at this time. - Page 3

 

[jerry33]

Ok, I'm convinced for an 85kw. However, you all are really worrying me about the lack of range on the 85kw and also the battery degradation.

I just drove from DFW to Lincoln, NE on my 85. Three charging stops and never even came close to running out. Range just isn't a problem with the 85.

The battery degradation isn't a problem either. The previous car's battery (the Roadster) are doing 20% to 30% better than originally thought according to an owners survey from PlugInAmerica. LiOn batteries degrade more in their first year and then level out for a long time.

 

[Kipernicus]

As others have noted, the decision really depends on your particular circumstances (where you live, how far (and fast) you want to drive, etc).
For me, the 60 has been great because
1) when I configured, the jump to 85 really was $10k because I was grandfathered into free SC and there was no tire upgrade
2) I live in CA, with the many superchargers and public charging stations
3) I've been able to drive all around the bay area, up to Tahoe, and a week long trip to LA (down the 5 and up the 101). 10k miles now.

No regrets on choosing the 60, but if I had to configure today, I'd probably get the 85 because now the difference is really just $7k, and I wouldn't have to worry about degradation as much. I could keep it at 50% and still have enough for spur of the moment trips.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I too live in Atlanta and my normal commute is 90 miles or so if I drive to lunch... The 85 gives me the ability to charge below the standard 90% and still have plenty to spare... I feel like that may conserve pack degradation over the years, but who knows...

And the 85 will also be nice for road trippin' once the super chargers appear on the east coast... Can't wait! I've seen lots of folks post about road trips in the 60, but I don't want to have to drive 55-65MPH on a road trip just to have a decent enough buffer at my destination to feel comfortable

I felt like the 60 would be a decent option if there was talk of a bigger battery than the 85 appearing at some point and you could trade-in/upgrade later, but that seems like it will be a very long time before we'll see that... with no guarantees on the trade-in

One last thing to consider is when it gets cold (for the few months out of the year in Georgia) your range will take a hit..

 

[Shumdit]

Your ICE will be sitting around collecting dust more than you can imagine.

SO TRUE. I had originally decided to sell one car as part of my "deal with my conscience" when I bought the Tesla. Now I am selling three because I simply do not see myself driving them much if at all. If only Tesla could get more people behind the wheel on test drives!

 

[Btrflyl8e]

I don't regret going with the 60, but I really never go on long road trips. I did have the rare occasion to need to drive to Miami recently, but a supercharger opened exactly halfway about a month before my trip, allowing me to take the Tesla. So for the 7,500 miles I have on it so far, I've never needed to charge anywhere but at home, while I sleep (other than that one road trip, of course).

For the way I use the car, even with all the errands I suddenly volunteer to make, the 60 is still perfect and I used the $7000 for vacation instead :biggrin:

 

[ssq]

I don't regret going with the 60, but I really never go on long road trips. I did have the rare occasion to need to drive to Miami recently, but a supercharger opened exactly halfway about a month before my trip, allowing me to take the Tesla. So for the 7,500 miles I have on it so far, I've never needed to charge anywhere but at home, while I sleep (other than that one road trip, of course).

For the way I use the car, even with all the errands I suddenly volunteer to make, the 60 is still perfect and I used the $7000 for vacation instead :biggrin:

That's reassuring for a potential buyer who too cannot justify spending 7k more (i.e. cannot swing a 85) !

 

[SFOTurtle]

I love my 60. If money were no object, I would have sprung for an S85 for the extra range, not the speed/performance (real world time for 60s is 0 to 60 in 5.1 seconds, I seem to recall posts from a while back trying to figure what the real world 0 to 60 time for S85 was, but it isn't noticeably different -- of course I'm not talking about P85, just S85 vs. S60 real world times). I'm perfectly happy with the OEM tires I have and don't think I would get $1,000 of additional value out of the Michelins, so that would not have gotten me much closer to the 85. I have nearly 11,000 miles on the car and there have been a few times where I wish I had an extra 20-30 miles of range, but these were on road trips and before the Superchargers were operational on the route. If someone doesn't drive the car long distances, a 60 is plenty of car.

Something to think about that I didn't before I purchased -- once you get the car, I can see a lot of folks who will want to start doing long road trips even if they had never planned to do that before!! You'll want to drive it more and more. And for this reason, having a bigger battery pack will make those trips easier and with only an $8K difference in price, is easy to justify. But for a lot of people who would never take the car on trips because they never have and never will, getting the bigger battery pack won't be worth the extra cost. The difference in performance, if there is any, won't be enough to justify it. And that is why I continue to see 60s all over the road here.

 

[Discoducky]

I love my 60 and have taken a few longish trips and one big trip down to Palm Springs and back this past March (see links in my signature) without issue for range as we have pretty great charging up in the Seattle area thanks to amazing support from owners and the state.

However, you live in a place that will not be serviced by superchargers for a while (2015) with a 300 distance between the two major cities so that could be the deciding point for you.

On that trip with a 60 you'd need to stop for 5 hours of charging in Chattanooga with a single charger or 3 hours on a dual-charger or 2 hours on ChaDeMo (if they show up).

On that trip with a 85 you'd need to stop for only 2 hours or 1 hour respectively to drive the speeds you want to go. Or less with more efficient driving.

If I was in your shoes, I might opt for the 85 just because of the lack of supercharging and level 3 support **IF** you really want that drive to Nashville to be quick.

 

[ssq]

I love my 60 and have taken a few longish trips and one big trip down to Palm Springs and back this past March (see links in my signature) without issue for range as we have pretty great charging up in the Seattle area thanks to amazing support from owners and the state.

However, you live in a place that will not be serviced by superchargers for a while (2015) with a 300 distance between the two major cities so that could be the deciding point for you.
On that trip with a 60 you'd need to stop for 5 hours of charging in Chattanooga with a single charger or 3 hours on a dual-charger or 2 hours on ChaDeMo (if they show up).
On that trip with a 85 you'd need to stop for only 2 hours or 1 hour respectively to drive the speeds you want to go. Or less with more efficient driving.
If I was in your shoes, I might opt for the 85 just because of the lack of supercharging and level 3 support **IF** you really want that drive to Nashville to be quick.

My plan is to go for the 60 since my commute is 60 miles(padded for actual freeway speeds and my style of driving). I don't take long road trips but as SFOTurtle pointed out I might start taking those (Julian, Palm Springs for instance). If I see that happen, I plan to add the supercharger option, which again I dont want to spend on because given my past and current commute I don't see the need. Its great I do have the option to add that on after delivery. For the same reasons I want to go with a NEMA 14-50 with a single 10 kw onboard charger and no high power wall charger.

 

[dsm363]

My plan is to go for the 60 since my commute is 60 miles(padded for actual freeway speeds and my style of driving). I don't take long road trips but as SFOTurtle pointed out I might start taking those (Julian, Palm Springs for instance). If I see that happen, I plan to add the supercharger option, which again I dont want to spend on because given my past and current commute I don't see the need. Its great I do have the option to add that on after delivery. For the same reasons I want to go with a NEMA 14-50 with a single 10 kw onboard charger and no high power wall charger.

I think you could easily skip the second charger (can be added later as well but for more money) but if adding Supercharging is a given, the price difference between a 60 and 85kWh falls to around $8,000 then. Almost no one who buys a 85 kWh regrets having the extra range so something to consider.

 

[ssq]

I think you could easily skip the second charger (can be added later as well but for more money) but if adding Supercharging is a given, the price difference between a 60 and 85kWh falls to around $8,000 then. Almost no one who buys a 85 kWh regrets having the extra range so something to consider.

I do follow your point but I don't take long road trips(San Diego => Sequoia National Park was my longest stretch in a day till date), instead prefer flying and then renting(usually a large SUV) from the destination. Usually that also involves a larger group of people and kids at times. So with that $8k I could do this fly+rent combination several times without worrying about bashing up a nice car on unknown terrain over extra long distances and people who may or may not care about a pricey car :smile: .. yes I am finicky about a whole bunch of things I don't allow in my car (maybe because I don't have kids yet)
I can surely argue in favor of S85 as well but I am trying to justify what I really need and not throwing away money for peace of mind (for situation which may never really present itself). I have two ICE cars on the side btw, and one of them stays.

 

[liuping]

I can surely argue in favor of S85 as well but I am trying to justify what I really need and not throwing away money for peace of mind (for situation which may never really present itself).

I don't think you will find many people who went with the 85 and later consider the money "thrown away".

Many find after the get the Model S, they drive it much more and further than they ever planned to. Many drive it far more than they drove their previous ICE vehicles.

If money is the issue, I would (and did) cut many other things before cutting range. The air suspension, pano roof, 21" tires, premium stereo, custom rims all go first for me.