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Help deciding 60kw or 85kw
- Thread starter Earthdog
- Start date
60 kw vs 85 kw Model S
I am also upgrading from a Leaf to a Tesla due to range anxiety. Also considering a 60kw model. Here are a few facts on my driving:
1. Most of my daily driving is under 100 miles. Rarely would I exceed 150 miles in a day.
2. I have a level 2 40 amp charging station in my garage.
3. I rarely exceed 65 mph as we have more speed traps and cameras in my area than you can shake a stick at.
4. I live 2 miles from a Supercharging station. I plan to buy the Supercharger upgrade in the 60.
5. Temperatures in my area range from 90 degrees in the summer to 25 in winter.
Would appreciate your thoughts on whether 60kw will be sufficient. Also, have software upgrades increased the range both the 60 and 85 since the Model S was introduced?
I am also upgrading from a Leaf to a Tesla due to range anxiety. Also considering a 60kw model. Here are a few facts on my driving:
1. Most of my daily driving is under 100 miles. Rarely would I exceed 150 miles in a day.
2. I have a level 2 40 amp charging station in my garage.
3. I rarely exceed 65 mph as we have more speed traps and cameras in my area than you can shake a stick at.
4. I live 2 miles from a Supercharging station. I plan to buy the Supercharger upgrade in the 60.
5. Temperatures in my area range from 90 degrees in the summer to 25 in winter.
Would appreciate your thoughts on whether 60kw will be sufficient. Also, have software upgrades increased the range both the 60 and 85 since the Model S was introduced?
No change to range, only change to how it is calculated from what I gathered. I think ultimately the 60kWh is sufficient for the majority of people, it really comes down to your price tolerance and if you think it will haunt you that you didn't get the 85. I definitely drive a lot more than I did with any ICE, and we've already taken more road trips in 10 months than I probably did in the previous 5 years... but I still have no regrets going with the 60. My daily commute is 40 miles, and I have a very heavy right foot.
I think like a lot of people the 60 would be more than enough for daily driving but there is something to be said about extra range on the 85. If it is within budget I think it is the first option to go for. Good luck.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Worst case scenario: Will a 60 kWh be able to do 150 miles in 25 degrees while driving ~65 mph in winter with the strongest headwind and worst snow-scenario Bluchip may risk encountering where s(he) lives on the East coast?
MassX1317
Addicted to TMC
I think with 100-150 miles daily you should go with the 85. I am right around 100 miles daily and I thought the 60 was borderline for this area factoring in the cold and degradation. I was thinking the daily 100 miles plus errands I may need to run, could put me above the winter limit. I didn't want to spend $80k for a car and be afraid to drive it.
I calculated something like this:
Year 1-Range charge = 210mi/90% charge = 189mi/worst in cold (75%) = 142mi
Year 2-205/185/139
Year 3-200/180/135
Year 4-195/175/131
Year 5-190/171/128
Year 6-185/166/125
Year 7-180/162/122
Year 8-175/158/118
Pros of 85kw:
8 year warranty regardless of miles
You will have little to no range anxiety
You will charge faster at SC vs a 60
Cons:
Will cost you $125-150/mo if financing
I calculated something like this:
Year 1-Range charge = 210mi/90% charge = 189mi/worst in cold (75%) = 142mi
Year 2-205/185/139
Year 3-200/180/135
Year 4-195/175/131
Year 5-190/171/128
Year 6-185/166/125
Year 7-180/162/122
Year 8-175/158/118
Pros of 85kw:
8 year warranty regardless of miles
You will have little to no range anxiety
You will charge faster at SC vs a 60
Cons:
Will cost you $125-150/mo if financing
Please get the 85. The only common complaint I hear is from S60 owners wishing they got the 85 instead. Don't be one of them. You won't regret it. You'll be glad you did in the long run.
The difference in price is only $8k (since supercharging is included). The VALUE you get for this small price difference (relative to total price) is HUUUUUGGEEE.
For $8k, you get the following:
1) 40% bigger battery. This is huge.
2) better battery warranty (85kW=8yr/unlimited miles vs 60kW=8yr/125k miles)
3) faster performance. Many car enthusiasts would pay $8k or more JUST for this one alone.
4) longer range (obviously) ... The extra miles if/when you need them = less range anxiety
5) LONGER BATTERY LIFE. It's hard to realize this one. The 60 has a less number of individual cells. This means that for the same distance traveled, the individual cell usage in a 60 is going to be higher than the 85. More usage = more deep discharge cycling = faster battery degradation. This is why the battery warranty on the 60 is limited to 125k miles...just having an 85 simply means your battery will last longer for the same distance traveled.
6) sort of a derivative of #5. I highly expect the residual value % to be higher on an 85 than a 60.
7) upgraded tires (Michelins...much better than the Goodyears).
8) the 85 supercharges at a higher rate than the 60. Again due to having more cells it can distribute more power concurrently.
That's what you get for $8k. Technically it's $10k difference but I'm leaving out the fact that supercharging is included. This value is just too huge. I would never recommend the 60 when you can get all the above for an extra $8k.
The difference in price is only $8k (since supercharging is included). The VALUE you get for this small price difference (relative to total price) is HUUUUUGGEEE.
For $8k, you get the following:
1) 40% bigger battery. This is huge.
2) better battery warranty (85kW=8yr/unlimited miles vs 60kW=8yr/125k miles)
3) faster performance. Many car enthusiasts would pay $8k or more JUST for this one alone.
4) longer range (obviously) ... The extra miles if/when you need them = less range anxiety
5) LONGER BATTERY LIFE. It's hard to realize this one. The 60 has a less number of individual cells. This means that for the same distance traveled, the individual cell usage in a 60 is going to be higher than the 85. More usage = more deep discharge cycling = faster battery degradation. This is why the battery warranty on the 60 is limited to 125k miles...just having an 85 simply means your battery will last longer for the same distance traveled.
6) sort of a derivative of #5. I highly expect the residual value % to be higher on an 85 than a 60.
7) upgraded tires (Michelins...much better than the Goodyears).
8) the 85 supercharges at a higher rate than the 60. Again due to having more cells it can distribute more power concurrently.
That's what you get for $8k. Technically it's $10k difference but I'm leaving out the fact that supercharging is included. This value is just too huge. I would never recommend the 60 when you can get all the above for an extra $8k.
I tend to agree with Yobigd20. The other thing I hear from every Model S owner is that they drive more than they did in their previous car. There are a couple of reasons for this: 1) Driving is more fun when it doesn't cost you $80, plus however much you spend when you get there. 2) Driving a Model S is just a much more pleasant experience--even heavy traffic doesn't bother you as much.
I'm up 11% from last year (18,000 vs. 16,200) and 10% over my previous nine year average (16,300, commute only is 10,000). Also last Sunday was the first time I used a Supercharger. As more Superchargers get built along the routes I frequently drive I expect that my annual mileage will go up.
From the posts I've read, the average increase in distance driven is closer to 20%.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
As others have said, if all of your range needs are met (factoring in degradation and weather) and if the extra $8k is a pinch, the 60 is an excellent choice. As I've said before, unless one's lived with something, they may not really know if it truly works for them. Dare I say, many on these forums think "85 or bust" but, that may be colored by their experience with an 85 alone.
When I finalized the car in Aug '12, my wife kept me honest and prevented me from going down that slippery slope of "wanting it all". The 60 made perfect sense at the end of the day and the money I saved back then has done just fine as an investment in TSLA and my son's college fund.
When I finalized the car in Aug '12, my wife kept me honest and prevented me from going down that slippery slope of "wanting it all". The 60 made perfect sense at the end of the day and the money I saved back then has done just fine as an investment in TSLA and my son's college fund.
I didn't mean to say you can't get a 60 and be happy with it. Some drive less than 10-40 miles on a normal work day though. For someone consistently driving a 100+ miles/day I think the 85 is the way to go if you were planning on getting Supercharging anyway.
Merrill
Merrill
Had this discussion many times on this forum, it gets down to what works for you. I do not commute, rarely take long road trips and keep my cars for a long time. So I do not worry about how much it will be worth 5 or 10 years down the road. I will probably not ever get to the 125,000 mile mark, so the warranty is fine. Took some of the money I saved and spent it on stereo upgrade and extended warranty. Also with the supercharging network, you really do not need to worry about range on a long trip.
I thought that 60 was good for me and finalized on 60. However so many folks were recommending to go for 85 that I called Tesla and upgraded to 85. I will find out if indeed I do drives which are easier in 85 compared to 60 and update in few months
. For me extra 10k was not financial stretch. It was a huge mental stretch to spend so much on a car though and I did not want to regret later. Further if some can only afford 60 and can not afford 85, I will doubt if they should buy even 60. They may want to wait little bit and only if they can afford they should pull the trigger.
. For me extra 10k was not financial stretch. It was a huge mental stretch to spend so much on a car though and I did not want to regret later. Further if some can only afford 60 and can not afford 85, I will doubt if they should buy even 60. They may want to wait little bit and only if they can afford they should pull the trigger.
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