Help Me Decide Between Long Range and Performance

[freeAgent]

Correct.

This is not correct because as we should have established earlier on in this thread, weight actually does impact braking distance. Here's another thread that gets into it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/2n6g2y

Tesla Model 3s live in the real world, not an oversimplified Newtonian physics mental model.

 

[Black306]

Correct.

Please explain to me how a car with 14% more kinetic energy can stop in the same distance.

 

[MikeyC]

Please explain to me how a car with 14% more kinetic energy can stop in the same distance.

If a car has X% more mass and thus X% more kinetic energy, I think people are counting on the friction between the tires and road surface also increasing by X%: due to the increased mass pressing the tires onto the road. I think what gets lost here in these "all else being equal" scenarios is that I don't think tires perform equally or have the same coefficient of friction when they heat up more due to the increased weight and deform differently under different weight. I think in reality, more mass will result in a slightly longer braking distance, but it won't be the full X%. And in some situations, depending on tire compound, tread, and road surface, braking distances may be shorter with more weight... up to a point... and then get longer once you pass some optimal weight for the tires/road, at which point the braking distances start getting longer again if you keep adding more and more weight. Like a bell curve.

I just don't know how "pointy" that peak on the bell curve would be. It helps to think in extremes. If you think about it, if you have very little weight at all (say 10 pounds distributed across 4 tires), the rubber on the tires wouldn't deform and "squish" down into the nooks and crannies of the pavement and your contact patch would be reduced: your tires would basically be riding only on the microscopic peaks of the rough road. And on the other side where you've added a massive weight, say 20,000 pounds, the rubber in the tires will get so hot from the friction that the rubber would just melt. Somewhere in between would be the peak of the bell curve.

Mike

 

[ogmios]

Hello everyone,

It took a while for me to get back here, and certainly a while longer to read through the entire discussion around which car breaks faster . Pretty impressive what these Tesla forums can turn to.

In the meantime I have done 2 test drives, one with the performance model and one with the LR model. Although I do love speed and making driving a bit more fun than the average person, the difference in acceleration between the 2 is not really making it up for me. I definitely like the meaner look of the Performance, but I think it is possible to give the LR almost the same with a bit of custom tweaks.

That being said, the LR felt more comfortable (it had the 18" on), and while you could change the 20"s on P too, it's still an added cost. Then again, the LR can get the Acceleration Boost, and get somewhat closer to that 3,3 probably for a somewhat similar cost for buying smaller wheels for the P.

Personally, the added range (for the Q2 model) and the smaller price made me choose the LR model. Will be ordering it for Q3 delivery, and now going into that period where I am like a kid waiting for the candy to be delivered .

Thanks a lot to all those who helped me get more informed into my decision.

/OG

 

[Ofarlig]

Hello everyone,

It took a while for me to get back here, and certainly a while longer to read through the entire discussion around which car breaks faster . Pretty impressive what these Tesla forums can turn to.

In the meantime I have done 2 test drives, one with the performance model and one with the LR model. Although I do love speed and making driving a bit more fun than the average person, the difference in acceleration between the 2 is not really making it up for me. I definitely like the meaner look of the Performance, but I think it is possible to give the LR almost the same with a bit of custom tweaks.

That being said, the LR felt more comfortable (it had the 18" on), and while you could change the 20"s on P too, it's still an added cost. Then again, the LR can get the Acceleration Boost, and get somewhat closer to that 3,3 probably for a somewhat similar cost for buying smaller wheels for the P.

Personally, the added range (for the Q2 model) and the smaller price made me choose the LR model. Will be ordering it for Q3 delivery, and now going into that period where I am like a kid waiting for the candy to be delivered .

Thanks a lot to all those who helped me get more informed into my decision.

/OG

Congrats! The acceleration boost makes a big difference, will most likely buy it day one on my new 3 (like I did with the old one). Together that makes the LR the best choice for me, close to the same performance but a lot more comfort.

 

[Voodoo077]

Old(er) topic so not sure if any answers that will follow.
Overhere in Europe the difference is price is much lower than 11K like stated in the start.
It is about 7K but if you take the bigger wheel option and the boost it is already 4K so only 3K difference at that moment.
Still beter choice than the LR?

 

[MikeyC]

Old(er) topic so not sure if any answers that will follow.
Overhere in Europe the difference is price is much lower than 11K like stated in the start.
It is about 7K but if you take the bigger wheel option and the boost it is already 4K so only 3K difference at that moment.
Still beter choice than the LR?

I haven't looked but I'll take your figures as fact. So then... it's a 5K difference. Once you start adding 21 inch wheels, you've already started adding more stuff from the M3P so you're kinda halfway there already and we're talking about more than just acceleration boost. A lot of people (me included) specifically don't want the 21 inch wheels. The 19's are a better ride and won't destroy both a tire and wheel if you hit a decent size pothole.

Mike

 

[jbcarioca]

Please explain to me how a car with 14% more kinetic energy can stop in the same distance.

Longer answers have been posted. Shorter ones work.
More weight on the tires given more traction. Brakes on modern cars are perfectly capable of stopping is very short distances, and traction is the limiting factor. Performance brakes are for heavy repeated use, not single fast stops, near all brakes can do that.

Context: Heavy trucks can invariably stop much more quickly loaded than they can unloaded, because the traction unloaded is far less. Hence, BEV's generally can stop more quickly than an equivalent ICE because of extra weight.

 

[dinonugget]

If you're going to buy a LR, then afterwards modify the wheels, brakes, and suspension to make it a Performance, of course just buy the Performance in the first place!

There are many LR buyers, however, who don't consider the Performance to be without drawbacks, specifically with the staggered 21-inch wheels that have no factory-sized all-season tires, even 1.5 years after release. Also, not every buyer wants to dedicate half the garage to store a bunch of greasy automotive parts (spare rims and tires), just to swap out for when the temperature drops; many just want a quick, well-rounded and versatile commute car, which the LR + AB does really well.

A Performance looks good and would be fun to have, but one really needs to look at what they are buying the car for.

 

[puckpurnell]

Long Range! You'll rarely use/appreciate the P but you'll really appreciate the LR. IMO.

 

[Candleflame]

Stealth performance. Have the power.... have the range... the closest thing to the konami code youll get in real life,

 

[Fairchild]

Go long range.
I am so happy with my long-range and 4.8 to 60 is not shabby.

I had the Model X Raven with a 0-60 at 2.6 and I set the world record for quickest SUV at Palm Beach Intl. Raceway (since eclipsed) and quite frankly the speed on the street just got me into trouble. No tickets, but I should have.

 

[Candleflame]

Go long range.
I am so happy with my long-range and 4.8 to 60 is not shabby.

I had the Model X Raven with a 0-60 at 2.6 and I set the world record for quickest SUV at Palm Beach Intl. Raceway (since eclipsed) and quite frankly the speed on the street just got me into trouble. No tickets, but I should have.

long range awd is much quicker than 4.8s to 60mph... 4.8 is essentially the old RWD LR.

 

[El joe]

long range awd is much quicker than 4.8s to 60mph... 4.8 is essentially the old RWD LR.

4.8 is also without one-foot rollout. Probably closer to 4.4 with it.

 

[Brenkj]

I'm agonizing over this as well. I can't wait 2-3 months for a custom-ordered LR AWD (my M3 was totaled and the insurance company will only pay for a rental car for a few more weeks). So, my options are (1) M3P and hope that my delivery doesn't get delayed, or (2) keep close watch and snatch up a LR AWD that pops up in inventory. With option 2, I'll probably have to pay a delivery fee, since it's unlikely one will pop up close to me.

I'm sure the acceleration on the M3P is amazing, but I'm coming from a 2018 LR RWD, so the LR AWD will still be a nice boost in comparison. And I'd love to have the extra range of the LR AWD. Is the suspension on the M3P significantly better than the LR AWD? Anything else I should be considering in making my decision? Thanks.

 

[Knightshade]

4.8 is also without one-foot rollout. Probably closer to 4.4 with it.

Not remotely, no.

3.9 with 1 foot rollout without acceleration boost.

~4.2 without rollout.

With AB it's ~3.5 with rollout and ~3.7 without it.

 

[tezlam3]

I'm agonizing over this as well. I can't wait 2-3 months for a custom-ordered LR AWD (my M3 was totaled and the insurance company will only pay for a rental car for a few more weeks). So, my options are (1) M3P and hope that my delivery doesn't get delayed, or (2) keep close watch and snatch up a LR AWD that pops up in inventory. With option 2, I'll probably have to pay a delivery fee, since it's unlikely one will pop up close to me.

I'm sure the acceleration on the M3P is amazing, but I'm coming from a 2018 LR RWD, so the LR AWD will still be a nice boost in comparison. And I'd love to have the extra range of the LR AWD. Is the suspension on the M3P significantly better than the LR AWD? Anything else I should be considering in making my decision? Thanks.

kind of on the same boat as you, i currently have a 21 LR and have a P on order because of the wait time... now im having second thoughts on getting the P because its a bit more and have to get a set of dedicated winter tires...

 

[tivoboy]

LR AWD all the way. Unless you want to track or drag race frequently, the LR is going to give you much more utility and comfort for overall driving DAILY than the P. I LOVE road tripping in our 2018 LR RWD, and would never get a car with any less range no matter how fast it could do 0-60. I’ve driven the P and the Plaid and while its a fun novelty to do the warp speed (more like SpaceX lift off actually) Stop to full speed runs, there is no way I would do it frequently and everything else that LR AWD offers gives me much more benefit daily, weekly, monthly, road trips, inclement weather, any needed snow trips etc.

 

[El joe]

Not remotely, no.

3.9 with 1 foot rollout without acceleration boost.

~4.2 without rollout.

With AB it's ~3.5 with rollout and ~3.7 without it.

Sorry, thought we were talking Model Y. I stand corrected.

 

[Fairchild]

long range awd is much quicker than 4.8s to 60mph... 4.8 is essentially the old RWD LR.

Yup. 4.2 sec. Save $7k, put it in TSLA stock and enjoy the extended range.