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Help Me Decide Between Long Range and Performance

Wheely

Member
Apr 11, 2018
71
63
Norway
Hello everyone,

I am completely new here, but overly-excited of the prospect of getting a Tesla soon. However, as I have some specific wishes, I would like to hear your thoughts/advice before making the final decision.

A bit of back-ground:
- I have not owned an EV before, so this would be the first one.
- Driving habits/behavior: City-driving during the week, up to 15-20km in one go, and occasionally longer during week-end (250-300km return trips on the highway). 1-2 times a year, I do a long road-trip of 2-4000kms in total, mostly during the warm seasons. I do drive quite aggressively in the city, but not on the longer trips.
- Weather: As you can see, I live in a fairly moderate country in terms of weather, with temperatures ranging from 0 (32F) or a bit less (in the winter) to 25-30 (77-86F) (in the summer), and also moderate, but consistent wind. There is also a fair amount of rain during spring/autumn and sometimes summer too.

My current options:
- Long Range model, which just received an update in Q2 on the range (WLTP value 614km)
- Performance model, WLTP value 567km

Initially, I was quite set on getting the performance model - I found it worth it for the extra power, and nicer visuals. Not in particular happy about it being lowered due to the roads here, but well. Also took a test-drive in this one, and definitely got hooked on it.

However, since range is an important factor for me, mostly due to the 1-2 times a year long trips, I am leaning more and more towards the LR model. That being said, when starting to dig through forums, articles, I have seen some concerns with this model:


My first question, then is: What can I realistically expect out of the 614km range? It is not the city-driving context which worries me - there are plenty of charging stations around, and I am sure I will manage it. It is the long-trip/highway driving, where in general the speed limits are 110-130km/h. Of course, one cannot expect to achieve the WLTP value, realistically, but how much lower should I set my expectation?

My second question, then is: If the answer to the first question is, a significant amount lower (say 25-30%), would it then really make a huge difference compared to the Performance model? 70% of 614 = 429 while 70% of 567 = 397. So not such a significant difference after all.

=====================
(Moderator note: Welcome to TMC. I moved this thread you created (this post and the ones after it) to an active thread on the exact same subject. You can read about peoples opinions on this topic in the thread this post is now in)
You may be worrying a little too much about range. I drove from Oslo to south of Italy in a model X with a claimed 420km range and it was no problem at all. The speed that a tesla charges at and the fact you really need to stop every now and then anyway really makes real range over 350km just a nice buffer for the start of your return trip in my opinion. I have also travelled from Oslo to beyond the arctic circle in winter in my Model X, again with no charging issues at all. I advise you to get the car you want. The range difference won't be an issue especially given that in at least some tests, the new performance Model 3 has slightly more real range than the long range model due to it's larger battery pack. By the way, Tesla Superchargers are everywhere and often are quite memorable parts of your road trip.
 

NinjaFoot

Member
Apr 14, 2021
43
26
OH
Nah. I would get a full equipped M3P, place an order on a roadster and rent the corvette for the track. I do like a LOT what they did with the latest model design wise. Looks badass IMO. I saw one around here not long ago. Ticket-red.
I don’t know man, to me high performance ICE is pure skin to skin sex whereas high performance BEV is like VR sex lol.
 

byeLT4

Member
Feb 16, 2017
775
876
Texas
Everyone has opinions... So here's mine.... My Ludicrous Model S feels like it defies physics when launching. I love how it finds and uses ANY available traction. I've done pulls in a rock filled parking lot, in the pouring rain and sure it is not as fast as it could be in those condition but the car still just GOES. I came from a C7 Z06 where even on dry pavement it couldn't perform as spec'd. Plus at times the car seemed to act like it had a mind of it's own, but that is a whole 'nother discussion. I am looking forward to the new Roadster and hope to be able to get a used one in a few years. For those that don't know, the motor in that Z is called the LT4, and so looking at my forum name you can kinda see where I stand 😉
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,628
29,935
... For those that don't know, the motor in that Z is called the LT4, and so looking at my forum name you can kinda see where I stand 😉
Of course since ICE propulsion in NA English is called 'engine' and BEV propulsion is called 'motor' your moniker seems still appropriate. That's pedantic, I know. FWIW in most Romance languages the term for all such energy conversion devices is akin to 'motor' whether ICE or BEV.

Either way I was enamored of high performance ICE until I drove my first Model S in 2013.
Every BEV, no matter how modest, seems to have that instant response that I find addictive, even the I-MIEV.

Still, no matter how wonderful to LR Model 3 is, the Performance simply continues to excite me 2 1/2 years later. As fro how I really look at the issue, I do have a Model S Plaid+ on order despite a strong preference for a smaller car. When a Plaid+ Model 3 happens or the new Roadster I'll go for one or the other as long as they both have the enormous range of the 4680's. In the meantime Model 3 Performance is it!
 

El joe

Member
Jan 29, 2019
729
589
SF Bay Area, CA
Actually thats not even true. The lr with performance boost has faster acceleration at higher speeds which is kinda ironic given that thats where most real world driving happens.
Well, it is true at lower speeds. Though also, Bjorn also showed that at a lower battery percentage, LR AWD w/AB is faster even at lower speeds than the Performance, which has is insane to me. Also, the tires on the Performance fare really poorly in really cold temps.
 
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Mahamilto

Member
Feb 20, 2021
397
324
New York, NY
The Dyno results from multiple sources based on state of charge show the P having more power than LR w/AB at all speeds when SOC is equal... but the battery has to be equally as warm and SOC the same to be a fair test of the capabilities of each. Simple and undebatable fact, in the 2020 and on ONLY the P has the 980 motor on the rear. There is room more more power output in the P vs the LR, despite it not being fully tapped yet (likely to keep range figures over 300). Wheels on the LR are also lighter, tires less sticky, bad in cold. Both things remedied By a wheel and tire swap.

The LR w/AB is great, and if the P isn’t optimized, it will start to overcome the deficit, stay even, or possibly beat the P, but make no mistake: the P is the faster car.

So yes, situationally, the LR w/AB may be faster, as in the video we have all seen that you are referencing, but it isn’t faster when both vehicles are optimally performing. Period.
 

bjrosen

Member
Apr 19, 2019
302
301
Westford MA
Thank's a lot for the toughts.

What I meant by LR (new) is the updated model for Q2, where as I understood from the guys at Tesla I talked to, they are using some parts developed for the Y model, to get that extra range. I am not sure if this is updated on the US site yet (displays 353 miles - EPA for LR), but on the DK site it says now 614km (380 miles) instead of 580km which was for the Q1 model - WLTP rating.

So in the comparison it was still between a new Performance, and a new LR, but with that additional range. In terms of speed, since I just tried the P, it is probably wise to try the LR as well and compare. My assumption is that both are sufficient for my needs.

For the range question/answer, again, my 'concern' is on the long-stretches on those 2k km journeys I was talking about. Is it unrealistic to expect a range of 400-450km at highway speeds (120-130km/h) with minimal to no use of AC during spring to autumn seasons?

As for the supercharger network, while it is decently developed in Europe, I don't think it's comparable with US, hence why I would find stopping every 300-350km for a recharge a bit cumbersome. Especially since I like to do those trips in one-go, and so would expect to take perhaps 4-5 stops instead of 6-7. It's not a deal breaker necessarily, but I would like to have realistic expectations before I go on with the buy.
In Europe Tesla uses the CCS2 connector instead of the Tesla connector used in the US, that will give you the ability to charge at third party sites as well as Tesla Superchargers. The third party charging infrastructure in Europe is much better developed then it is in the US. I suggest that you look at the Tesla Supercharger map as well as the Ionity charger map to see to how well the routes that you want to travel are covered. My guess is that once you've looked at the map your concerns will evaporate. Here is the link for the Supercharger map.

 

El joe

Member
Jan 29, 2019
729
589
SF Bay Area, CA
The Dyno results from multiple sources based on state of charge show the P having more power than LR w/AB at all speeds when SOC is equal... but the battery has to be equally as warm and SOC the same to be a fair test of the capabilities of each. Simple and undebatable fact, in the 2020 and on ONLY the P has the 980 motor on the rear. There is room more more power output in the P vs the LR, despite it not being fully tapped yet (likely to keep range figures over 300). Wheels on the LR are also lighter, tires less sticky, bad in cold. Both things remedied By a wheel and tire swap.

The LR w/AB is great, and if the P isn’t optimized, it will start to overcome the deficit, stay even, or possibly beat the P, but make no mistake: the P is the faster car.

So yes, situationally, the LR w/AB may be faster, as in the video we have all seen that you are referencing, but it isn’t faster when both vehicles are optimally performing. Period.
Agreed. And make no mistake, I’d rather have a P if price was equal. But for $10k less as a starting price, I don’t mind the LR AWD at all. It’s already the fastest car I’ve ever owned by far and had better range than a P. And paying $2k for AB puts it into the same ballpark as a P.
 

bjrosen

Member
Apr 19, 2019
302
301
Westford MA
This is a really easy decision, just take a look at what's sitting in your driveway right now. If it's a muscle car or an M series BMW then you buy the Performance, if it's a car with a normally aspirated V8 or less then you buy the LR AWD. You'll be happy if you just follow that piece of advice.
 
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Mahamilto

Member
Feb 20, 2021
397
324
New York, NY
^^^^ this.
I came from a CTS V. I had an S4... I want the performance model 3.

if you are good with getting a 340i with m package, go for the LR with acceleration boost. Both the LR and the performance are great rides.
 
Jan 11, 2021
83
118
Bristol
My first question, then is: What can I realistically expect out of the 614km range? It is not the city-driving context which worries me - there are plenty of charging stations around, and I am sure I will manage it. It is the long-trip/highway driving, where in general the speed limits are 110-130km/h. Of course, one cannot expect to achieve the WLTP value, realistically, but how much lower should I set my expectation?

My second question, then is: If the answer to the first question is, a significant amount lower (say 25-30%), would it then really make a huge difference compared to the Performance model? 70% of 614 = 429 while 70% of 567 = 397. So not such a significant difference after all.

=====================
(Moderator note: Welcome to TMC. I moved this thread you created (this post and the ones after it) to an active thread on the exact same subject. You can read about peoples opinions on this topic in the thread this post is now in)

I drive an M3P in the UK, so similar weather to Denmark.

Realistically, driving around 80mph on a motorway, you can expect 200 miles range on a 90% charge. With the right weather and driving carefully you can improve this, but I always want to drive at a decent speed with air con on full blast.

For me, I love having the performance version. It may not be as efficient as the LR, but the upgraded performance, brakes and general look were important for me. In reality, the regen braking means I don’t use the breaks as much as I thought I would but still good to have plenty of stopping power with such a heavy car.

At the end of the day, practicality probably suggests an LR may be better for you. But for me, events have shown me that life is too short to worry about practicality at the moment. I’m all about the fun 😁
 

TheRFMan

Member
Dec 15, 2019
554
422
Ottawa, Canada
This is a really easy decision, just take a look at what's sitting in your driveway right now. If it's a muscle car or an M series BMW then you buy the Performance, if it's a car with a normally aspirated V8 or less then you buy the LR AWD. You'll be happy if you just follow that piece of advice.
LOL... in my driveway right now is a 2012 Chevrolet Volt... still choosing the P :)
 

Candleflame

Active Member
Mar 9, 2015
3,228
1,506
QLD, Australia
The Dyno results from multiple sources based on state of charge show the P having more power than LR w/AB at all speeds when SOC is equal... but the battery has to be equally as warm and SOC the same to be a fair test of the capabilities of each. Simple and undebatable fact, in the 2020 and on ONLY the P has the 980 motor on the rear. There is room more more power output in the P vs the LR, despite it not being fully tapped yet (likely to keep range figures over 300). Wheels on the LR are also lighter, tires less sticky, bad in cold. Both things remedied By a wheel and tire swap.

The LR w/AB is great, and if the P isn’t optimized, it will start to overcome the deficit, stay even, or possibly beat the P, but make no mistake: the P is the faster car.

So yes, situationally, the LR w/AB may be faster, as in the video we have all seen that you are referencing, but it isn’t faster when both vehicles are optimally performing. Period.
Dyno can say what it wants, real life performance is where it matters. And apart from the first second or so the AWD leaves the performance in the dust above 100kmh. Repeatedly.
 

bjrosen

Member
Apr 19, 2019
302
301
Westford MA
LOL... in my driveway right now is a 2012 Chevrolet Volt... still choosing the P :)
My last car was a 2017 Volt. The Volt trained me to hypermile because it's range was just a smidge too little. I have a weekly commute that's 70 miles on the highway but only 60 on back roads so when I had the Volt I took the back roads and in summer I could do that trip with 12 miles to spare but in winter without using the heater, just the seat heaters, it missed by one block (the engine turned on at the head of my street). I'm still hypermileing except that I take the highway now, I've been doing that trip at 201Wh/mile for the last few weeks.
 

TheRFMan

Member
Dec 15, 2019
554
422
Ottawa, Canada
My last car was a 2017 Volt. The Volt trained me to hypermile because it's range was just a smidge too little. I have a weekly commute that's 70 miles on the highway but only 60 on back roads so when I had the Volt I took the back roads and in summer I could do that trip with 12 miles to spare but in winter without using the heater, just the seat heaters, it missed by one block (the engine turned on at the head of my street). I'm still hypermileing except that I take the highway now, I've been doing that trip at 201Wh/mile for the last few weeks.
My typical commute is 7 miles into the downtown core, on surface streets, in traffic and takes 30-45 minutes. I can do it as fast on a bicycle. Range is not an issue :) Even after the pandemic, I won't ever need to go in more than twice a week, which will be nice.
 

Star Platinum

Member
Mar 20, 2019
149
154
Philadelphia
Dyno can say what it wants, real life performance is where it matters. And apart from the first second or so the AWD leaves the performance in the dust above 100kmh. Repeatedly.
Men lie, women lie, the dyno numbers don’t lie. If the P came equip with smaller wheels and better tires than the Pirelli it’s not even close. I have a LR and wish I went with P, which I ordered and waiting for.
 

Mahamilto

Member
Feb 20, 2021
397
324
New York, NY
Dyno can say what it wants, real life performance is where it matters. And apart from the first second or so the AWD leaves the performance in the dust above 100kmh. Repeatedly.
I can buy wheels and tires to negate any weight/rotational mass advantage (in fact... I did) one cannot go buy the 980 rear motor on the newer LR. Period. I’m not knocking the LR with AB. I’m simply saying it’s a less powerful car and when all else is equal, that means it’s going to be slower. It’s not really a debate.

Like I said, we’ve all seen the 2 videos you are referencing, and no doubt tossing the 32lb boat anchor Uberturbines on the P won’t make high speed pulls ideal, but I’ll take my effortless and repeatable low 11 1/4s to the bank. I got what I wanted and what I paid for. Like someone else said perfectly; dynos don’t lie. And videos on YouTube are impossible to decipher the evenness of SOC and battery temps.

Again. Not knocking the LR. It’s a sweet ride.

But the current discussion is how the LR w/AB is a beetwr performer than the P, and the argument unfortunately doesn’t hold water just because AB brings the top end acceleration to a dead heat (if the P is towing those heavy 20s...) Enven if it were true, acceleration doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of why one would get the P. The brakes are an entirely different animal all together, and while daily driving is going to be a lot of regen braking, any serious performance car enthusiast knows that brakes are one of the most important upgrades one can make if you plan on driving a car even close to its limit. What good is speed if you can’t easily and safely scrub it off to take a corner?
 
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Mahamilto

Member
Feb 20, 2021
397
324
New York, NY
This all aside, the LR with AB may be a better choice for the OP given previous discussion and his priorities. And that was the point of this thread to begin with.
 

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