Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E

[Watts_Up]

Since you have some time, consider going through the Munro & Associates tear-downs for both the Model Y and the Mach E.
The 2022 Model Y you would purchase will have addressed some of the issues called out in the 2020 tear-down.
The Munro teardown called out several good Ford innovations - eliminate outside door handles, door internals, one of the drive units.

From The bottom line is that Tesla is a vertical design company:
- So components can be specifically designed and optimized for their need.
- To modify a component is very easy, allowing making continual improvments.

Other car manufacturers generaly outsources components from suppliers:
- Thoses supplyers provide components at a very competitive price because of the high volume production.
- However, components have a broader use so they might not provide the optimal fit.
- And making requests for changes or improvments is a difficult process taking time.

Some interesting comments from Sandy Munro shown that, for example for the Mach E, by just rotating by 90 degree a connector, a shorter wiring could be used.
Also there was variety of costly high voltage connectors with various shapes and not always of premium quality, while Tesla was using the same well designed connector.
But the worth for the Mach E, was the complicated battery cooling system with numerous big hooses designed for high temperature ICE engine,
while Tesla was able to combine all the valves and pumps into a very compacts unit and and used PVC type of tubing with easy to connect clips-on.

I think the Model E is a very good contender, for example the no-handle door mechanism seems to be very interesting and great design.
However, many other improvements are needed, in particular to provide better efficieny. It was great to have the Mach E to be out of the door.
But I would prefer wait to see the future changes, a little bit like at the time when Microsoft
started to delivered Windows and finally the Windows NT 3.1 become the first reliable and usable version.

 

[pt19713]

My decision was because my wife told me to.
The reasons she wanted a Tesla was the cargo space for hauling around the dog, trips to Home Depot, and weekend drives. It's hard to beat the amount of cargo capacity in the Y. With the soft crate, we can fit multiple gym bags or carry-on cases in the trunk, plus another carry-on in the sub- trunk, and another in the frunk. With the back seats down, even more space.

Add on the reliable charging network, the amazing acceleration, and proven battery tech & software, it was an easy choice.

When it came time for her on another car, we briefly discussed the Mach-E. The only reason it was on the short list was due to the Federal credit. Take that away and it wasn't even worth looking at. We decided against it since we knew there would be early adapter issues. Maybe in 3-5 years Ford will get there, but they aren't quite there yet. She wasn't in the mood to be a beta tester. We ended up with a Model 3 Performance alongside my Y Long Range. No regrets.

 

[drtimhill]

• Body Style. The Mach-E looks great. The body looks muscular. The LED projector headlights on the Premium look amazing, as do the taillights. I also like the futuristic look of the Model Y, but not as much.
• 
  
• ...

A few thoughts...

-- I think both cars look great .. this really comes down to personal taste. I do like that Tesla took advantage of the lack of an up-front engine to have a swept-down front that (apart from aerodynamics) gives an amazing view of the road ahead (helped by the lack of an instrument cluster).
-- I agree on build quality, but Ford are not exactly the best brand for that (think Toyota), and Tesla have certainly got past most of the body gap hell.
-- Novelty. Well, that's pretty ephemeral, and everyone knows as soon as you buy ANY new car you start seeing them all over the place!!
-- Dashboard and controls. Frankly, I would not rank this very high as an issue. Sure, it "feels" odd at first with the center screen, but so does a new pair of shoes .. for a week or so. I've never understood ppl worried about the speedometer off to the side, after all, you glance up into the rear view mirror without any trouble! It's all just muscle memory, and that's much more pliable than we sometimes give it credit for.
-- Garage Door Opener. Yeah, that sucks but to be fair the integration is exceptional. Setup is far better than on any other car, and its nice to have the car automatically open the door when I get home.
-- Apple CarPlay. Annoying, but the main ask seems to be for Apple or Google Maps, but I would never use these for navigating since the integrated nav system does things a 3rd party system will never do (such as AP/FSD, automatic battery preconditioning etc). The basic problem with integrating CarPlay is Apple assume the CarPlay screen is "auxiliary" in that its not necessary for driving functions, which of course it not the case for Tesla. This means CarPlay integration is a massive undertaking.
-- Established Company. Well yes, Ford knows how to build ICE cars, but they are new to building EVs, and it shows (watch some of the Munro videos). I think they will catch up, but they are not there yet .. the Mach-E still looks to me like a rushed job. I'd trust Tesla more at this point in time.

 

[pepperoni]

A few thoughts...

-- I think both cars look great .. this really comes down to personal taste. I do like that Tesla took advantage of the lack of an up-front engine to have a swept-down front that (apart from aerodynamics) gives an amazing view of the road ahead (helped by the lack of an instrument cluster).
-- I agree on build quality, but Ford are not exactly the best brand for that (think Toyota), and Tesla have certainly got past most of the body gap hell.
-- Novelty. Well, that's pretty ephemeral, and everyone knows as soon as you buy ANY new car you start seeing them all over the place!!
-- Dashboard and controls. Frankly, I would not rank this very high as an issue. Sure, it "feels" odd at first with the center screen, but so does a new pair of shoes .. for a week or so. I've never understood ppl worried about the speedometer off to the side, after all, you glance up into the rear view mirror without any trouble! It's all just muscle memory, and that's much more pliable than we sometimes give it credit for.
-- Garage Door Opener. Yeah, that sucks but to be fair the integration is exceptional. Setup is far better than on any other car, and its nice to have the car automatically open the door when I get home.
-- Apple CarPlay. Annoying, but the main ask seems to be for Apple or Google Maps, but I would never use these for navigating since the integrated nav system does things a 3rd party system will never do (such as AP/FSD, automatic battery preconditioning etc). The basic problem with integrating CarPlay is Apple assume the CarPlay screen is "auxiliary" in that its not necessary for driving functions, which of course it not the case for Tesla. This means CarPlay integration is a massive undertaking.
-- Established Company. Well yes, Ford knows how to build ICE cars, but they are new to building EVs, and it shows (watch some of the Munro videos). I think they will catch up, but they are not there yet .. the Mach-E still looks to me like a rushed job. I'd trust Tesla more at this point in time.

Thank you! This is the first post to directly address multiple comments I left in my first post, and I appreciate the feedback. It is good to hear your perspective on the dash, controls, and Apple CarPlay. Really, I’m trying to figure out if I would miss these at all. I still can’t get my head around needing to use a touchscreen to adjust the wipers. That is really something that should be integrated into the steering wheel stem, so I can make adjustments without taking my eyes off the road. I understand it can be voice controlled, but as another person commented, that doesn’t work if you’re on the phone. Not a deal breaker though, just a gripe.

 

[TomServo]

I learned along time ago during my Corvette days err decades that

when someone asks those questions it’s best to let them make up their own mind.

I hope you will be happy with whatever you decide. Good luck.

 

[alexgr]

Thank you! This is the first post to directly address multiple comments I left in my first post, and I appreciate the feedback. It is good to hear your perspective on the dash, controls, and Apple CarPlay. Really, I’m trying to figure out if I would miss these at all. I still can’t get my head around needing to use a touchscreen to adjust the wipers. That is really something that should be integrated into the steering wheel stem, so I can make adjustments without taking my eyes off the road. I understand it can be voice controlled, but as another person commented, that doesn’t work if you’re on the phone. Not a deal breaker though, just a gripe.

On wipers:
90%+ of the time the wipers work just fine for me automatically with no need to touch anything. When rain is heavy, the wipers will work fast and no problem there. If rain is just starting or very weak, then sometimes Tesla hesitates to start the wipers. But this is not an issue because you control one-sweep and the washer by the left stick on the steering wheel as on many "traditional" cars. So, it is rare I need to adjust the wipers speed on the screen, and it never interferes with any critical driving tasks.

 

[chinney]

The one thing I'll say about the Mach-E is while I think its a good step, they really just got it out as fast as they could. There is no internal training company wide on any of the tech or support.

They actively tell customers to charge to 100%. If you plan to park this inside, do some research on how much noise they make even on Level 2 charging. I have a friend with one who can't park it inside his garage because of how much noise it makes near their children's room.

Just curious, where is the load charging noise coming from on the MME? A cooling fan? No fan these days should make that much noise. This is confusing to me.

 

[drtimhill]

I understand it can be voice controlled, but as another person commented, that doesn’t work if you’re on the phone. Not a deal breaker though, just a gripe.

Yeah that's the one downside of voice commands. However, the rest of the time they are better than ANY control, manual or touch, since you dont have to move your hands from the wheel for a moment.

Btw, my feeling is that both the Mach-E and ID.4 are the first serous competition for Tesla .. they are not there yet (imho), but are certainly throwing down the challenge. Which is good for consumers, as competition always helps! I've seen a couple of Mach-E's on the road, and I think they look great (but the informatics needs a LOT of work).

 

[tomagucci]

My decision was because my wife told me to.
The reasons she wanted a Tesla was the cargo space for hauling around the dog, trips to Home Depot, and weekend drives. It's hard to beat the amount of cargo capacity in the Y. With the soft crate, we can fit multiple gym bags or carry-on cases in the trunk, plus another carry-on in the sub- trunk, and another in the frunk. With the back seats down, even more space.

Add on the reliable charging network, the amazing acceleration, and proven battery tech & software, it was an easy choice.

When it came time for her on another car, we briefly discussed the Mach-E. The only reason it was on the short list was due to the Federal credit. Take that away and it wasn't even worth looking at. We decided against it since we knew there would be early adapter issues. Maybe in 3-5 years Ford will get there, but they aren't quite there yet. She wasn't in the mood to be a beta tester. We ended up with a Model 3 Performance alongside my Y Long Range. No regrets.

have a link for the soft crate?

 

[pt19713]

have a link for the soft crate?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088LSKM3N/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_6TBJ10FFRB8A986DZEW3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

The one in the picture is the 36"

 

[chinney]

Just curious, where is the load charging noise coming from on the MME? A cooling fan? No fan these days should make that much noise. This is confusing to me.

I did some looking around the web to answer my own question. Turns it it is the fans. (I checked out some videos recording the MME being charged - the noise is LOUD - kind of like a having gas lawnmower on beside the car). That said, it appears the Ford has a software fix that they can download and install at dealerships (OTA updates are not yet fully functional for the Mach E) and which fully addresses the issue. I would imagine, also, the issue will not affect vehicles being released from this time forward.

 

[wws]

..... Ford has been here from the start. Tesla is a newcomer, run by a a guy who seems slightly crazy. Will they be around in 10 years?

For the first 40 years or so, Ford was run by a guy who was more than "slightly" crazy... (And his wife drove a Detroit Electric.)

 

[alexgr]

For the first 40 years or so, Ford was run by a guy who was more than "slightly" crazy... (And his wife drove a Detroit Electric.)

That guy was not just crazy, his work on antisemitism has been praised by Adolf Hitler. It looks quite crazy to me that there are still people driving around in vehicles proudly displaying his name.

 

[alexgr]

Btw, my feeling is that both the Mach-E and ID.4 are the first serous competition for Tesla ..

I agree.

 

[Iain]

Thank you! This is the first post to directly address multiple comments I left in my first post, and I appreciate the feedback. It is good to hear your perspective on the dash, controls, and Apple CarPlay. Really, I’m trying to figure out if I would miss these at all. I still can’t get my head around needing to use a touchscreen to adjust the wipers. That is really something that should be integrated into the steering wheel stem, so I can make adjustments without taking my eyes off the road. I understand it can be voice controlled, but as another person commented, that doesn’t work if you’re on the phone. Not a deal breaker though, just a gripe.

As far as the wipers go...on the Tesla you just push in on the left stalk and bingo, you wipers are going. They also bring up the onscreen controls when you do that.

 

[DanDi58]

Gonna go out on a limb here - I bet the Tesla forum mostly recommends the MY, and the Mach-E forum mostly recommends the ME?

 

[voxel]

Btw, my feeling is that both the Mach-E and ID.4 are the first serous competition for Tesla .. they are not there yet (imho), but are certainly throwing down the challenge. Which is good for consumers, as competition always helps! I've seen a couple of Mach-E's on the road, and I think they look great (but the informatics needs a LOT of work).

ID.4 is a RAV4 replacement. It's $18K less than the Mach-E (if you want over 270 miles like the ID.4 you need to buy the Premium trim with Extended Range) or Model Y. Not exactly the same class of cars.

IMO the biggest Tesla competitor will be Ioniq 5 + EV6.

 

[Quipledrip]

I can only speak to the technology Ford uses consistently in their vehicles. I've owned several over the years including a Fusion (Plugin/Hybrid) and multiple Expeditions.

2006 Expedition was a good truck but ICE so probably doesn't and all the issues I had were mechanical.

2015 Fusion Plugin/Hybrid - The technology for this car was supposed to be the latest and greatest but used an outdated modem which had to be replaced under warranty. I had this car in the shop 7-times in 3 years to reset the computer. The mechanic (dealer) told me the electronic system and software were not ready when they released it even though it was 5+years old. I was out of a car for a total of 28 days during the 3years I had the car due to technology issues. Any of these issues could be solved on the Tesla with a reset done at home or an OTA update. Not sure if Ford is doing those on the Mach E but that may be their solution.

2016 Expedition - Wife loves this car and only issue we have had is Apple carplay sucks with their Sync system. Google works well which is what my wife uses. I'm just out of luck. Unless I plug in, unplug, plug in, unplug and sometimes the 4th time is the charm. If I have the patience for it.

Just not a fan of Ford anymore but who knows!!!!

 

[drtimhill]

ID.4 is a RAV4 replacement. It's $18K less than the Mach-E (if you want over 270 miles like the ID.4 you need to buy the Premium trim with Extended Range) or Model Y. Not exactly the same class of cars.

IMO the biggest Tesla competitor will be Ioniq 5 + EV6.

Perhaps .. my point wasn't that they are the same "class" but that they are the first cars that are well-rounded EVs from a company that is serious about being in the EV space and competing there. The Ioniq 5 *might* also be another one, but we shall see.

 

[WattsHappening]

Good advice from the gang.

I'm biased - we've bought two Model 3s and recently a Model Y. Love them all! For all the reasons folks here have pointed out as being Tesla advantages, I never even considered the ME when we decided to buy an E-CUV.

But I'll add one more point to consider that I didn't see mentioned yet. Are the prices you indicated real world? With Tesla, the amount quoted is the amount you (and all others who ordered at the same time) will pay. Not a dollar more and not a dollar less. I don't have personal experience, but my understanding is Ford dealers are charging $5K, $10K, I even saw a $20K 'market markup'. One of so many reasons I hate dealing with dealers. Would The ME costing $5-10K more be a deciding factor?