Help me decide: Model Y or Mach-E

[WattsHappening]

The service was free of charge because your car is still under warranty. I tend to keep my cars way past warranty, so I wonder what these service appointments would cost under these circumstances. BMW prices or closer to Ford. It’s also interesting that you requested service on the glove box door, not something that is typically required. I’m really trying to understand the cost of ownership for these cars past the warranty period.

Yep, that's true. But it points to how little you will probably need to go in for service. The glove box door was due I'm sure to early build error. And the A/C was a bad module. Could happen to any car. Luckily, it presented itself the first summer, so as you say, all under warranty.

As others have stated, your maintenance costs should be significantly less than with an ICE. I don't know about the MME; theoretically, it should be similar. But knowing Ford's dealership model, they will want your service business, regardless of whether you need it or now.

No oil changes, no tune-ups, no emissions checks, probably no brake work needed. Gone will be the days when you have to worry about timing belts, transmissions, fuel injectors, etc. The one higher expense will be tires. But tire manufacturers are coming out with tires for EVs, so hopefully, that won't be as big of an issue going forward.

 

[mrwug]

The one higher expense will be tires. But tire manufacturers are coming out with tires for EVs, so hopefully, that won't be as big of an issue going forward.

And who goes to a dealership for tires? The only time I've bought tires from a dealer was when I already had the car in for something else.

 

[pepperoni]

We are a Tesla bunch... with 4 cars in the group; 1 MX (me), 2 M3, 1 MS, and 1 MY. The M3's have 78K and 64K miles... the MS has 114K miles, my MX has 40K and the MY has a whopping 2K.

The only SC visit was me (unfortunately) for a broken windshield. Of course, the largest freakin' windshield and the most expensive. Other than that, one M3 and the MS got new tires. All have orig brakes! No issues. (*knocking on wood)

Cost of ownership? For us... Nil. FYI

FWIW, on a recent trip to San Diego... I ordered an Uber, and was picked up by an MS. His car had some 170K miles, and since he liked to talk about his Tesla, I asked what he's had to have serviced, and he said he's never been to an SC... but has gone through many sets of tires! I forgot to ask about brake pads...

Excellent data point. Your story is certainly consistent with what I’ve heard from other Tesla owners. Beyond just the expense, making time to get a car serviced is always a headache, especially when it is unexpected. I have two cars which will hit their 120K major service marks next year, so that will be an expensive year just for routine maintenance. I’m looking forward to the day when I won’t need to worry about scheduling an oil change appointment. Or for that matter, even making time to stop for gas. Thinking of which, I better head to work early this morning, need to fill up…

 

[pepperoni]

Yep, that's true. But it points to how little you will probably need to go in for service. The glove box door was due I'm sure to early build error. And the A/C was a bad module. Could happen to any car. Luckily, it presented itself the first summer, so as you say, all under warranty.

As others have stated, your maintenance costs should be significantly less than with an ICE. I don't know about the MME; theoretically, it should be similar. But knowing Ford's dealership model, they will want your service business, regardless of whether you need it or now.

No oil changes, no tune-ups, no emissions checks, probably no brake work needed. Gone will be the days when you have to worry about timing belts, transmissions, fuel injectors, etc. The one higher expense will be tires. But tire manufacturers are coming out with tires for EVs, so hopefully, that won't be as big of an issue going forward.

Thanks for the follow up. I’m starting to come on board… these cars really are cheaper to maintain. Details are still unclear about the Ford. They are still new, so there aren’t people out there with 100K+ miles who can talk about cost of ownership yet. But as long as they aren’t churning out lemons, I’m guessing it will be similar.

 

[drtimhill]

Thanks for the follow up. I’m starting to come on board… these cars really are cheaper to maintain. Details are still unclear about the Ford. They are still new, so there aren’t people out there with 100K+ miles who can talk about cost of ownership yet. But as long as they aren’t churning out lemons, I’m guessing it will be similar.

I hope you've been getting some good data from both this thread and the similar one on the Ford forums you visit. My feeling is this is coming down to a couple of issues:

- You like the idea of the Mach-E because you prefer it's appearance/appeal (it does look good) and you want a bit of "cachet" around the new and uncommon Mach-E (at least for a year or so).
-- You are concerned about being an early-adopter of Ford in terms of unknown reliability and immaturity of the software stack in the car.

Ultimately this has to be your choice .. and like all tough choices it comes down to the tension between what you emotionally want (the Mach-E) vs what is the most sensible/safer choice (the Tesla). However, cars are, for me at least, a big purchase in terms of $$, and so getting it wrong has a major impact that I have to put up with for several years (or more). So here are a few thoughts:

-- The cachet/uniqueness appeal of the Mach-E is very ephemeral .. it will be gone in 12 months, basically.
-- The Tesla software stack is light-years ahead of the Mach-E .. really (I spent 4-5 hours with a Mach-E a few weeks back, it was shocking how far behind they are). Sure, Ford are working on this, but I have two concerns (a) Tesla isnt sitting still either and (b) the Mach-E is simply not setup for a true OTA evolution, since it's built with traditional (and isolated) subsystems that were never designed for OTA updates (the Tesla has 3 computers all developed in-house and closely integrated, the Ford has several dozen from many vendors).
-- Getting an EV right isnt simple .. look at GM owners right now who have their EVs parked outside because of fire risks while they wait for a battery replacement.

I think Ford are invested in an EV future, and the Mach-E is an interesting first step onto that path. If you have the financial resources to maybe bail out in 12 months should buying a Mach-E turns out to be a bad idea, go for it. But if you plan on keeping the car for longer, I would hesitate. Tesla have had their share of problem, of course, but they have grown past that phase .. Ford are just entering it.

In either case, please let us know when you make your choice, and what factors ultimately lead to it!

 

[pepperoni]

I hope you've been getting some good data from both this thread and the similar one on the Ford forums you visit. My feeling is this is coming down to a couple of issues:

- You like the idea of the Mach-E because you prefer it's appearance/appeal (it does look good) and you want a bit of "cachet" around the new and uncommon Mach-E (at least for a year or so).
-- You are concerned about being an early-adopter of Ford in terms of unknown reliability and immaturity of the software stack in the car.

Ultimately this has to be your choice .. and like all tough choices it comes down to the tension between what you emotionally want (the Mach-E) vs what is the most sensible/safer choice (the Tesla). However, cars are, for me at least, a big purchase in terms of $$, and so getting it wrong has a major impact that I have to put up with for several years (or more). So here are a few thoughts:

-- The cachet/uniqueness appeal of the Mach-E is very ephemeral .. it will be gone in 12 months, basically.
-- The Tesla software stack is light-years ahead of the Mach-E .. really (I spent 4-5 hours with a Mach-E a few weeks back, it was shocking how far behind they are). Sure, Ford are working on this, but I have two concerns (a) Tesla isnt sitting still either and (b) the Mach-E is simply not setup for a true OTA evolution, since it's built with traditional (and isolated) subsystems that were never designed for OTA updates (the Tesla has 3 computers all developed in-house and closely integrated, the Ford has several dozen from many vendors).
-- Getting an EV right isnt simple .. look at GM owners right now who have their EVs parked outside because of fire risks while they wait for a battery replacement.

I think Ford are invested in an EV future, and the Mach-E is an interesting first step onto that path. If you have the financial resources to maybe bail out in 12 months should buying a Mach-E turns out to be a bad idea, go for it. But if you plan on keeping the car for longer, I would hesitate. Tesla have had their share of problem, of course, but they have grown past that phase .. Ford are just entering it.

In either case, please let us know when you make your choice, and what factors ultimately lead to it!

You’ve captured where my head is at quite well. One additional factor not on your list (because I really haven’t discussed it) is the federal tax incentive. I have been treating these cars on equal footing because I can’t predict what the tax incentive will look like in 2022 when I accept the car. As of today, if they are nearly the same cost (and show up on the same day), I’ll probably go Tesla. If I get a $7.5K tax credit on the Ford (or even better, $12K as is in the house package) and not the equivalent for the Tesla, then I’ll almost certainly go Ford. Timeline matters too, and if I can’t get one of them by Spring I’m not going to wait for it when the other arrives. We need a car in early 2022, not a year from now. Fortunately, my Tesla EDD is currently Feb 19 - Mar 19. And Ford seems to be ramping up production too, with some people who placed their orders the same week I did getting production dates in December.

I will certainly update this thread with my ultimate decision, or if I have additional questions. You have all been a tremendous help, giving me a lot of great information to consider. I am sure there are plenty of others faced with the same decision who will find this thread useful. Thank you all!

 

[dhrivnak]

I think it depends on how you will use your car. If 98% of your driving is withing 100 miles of home the Mach-E is a fine car. But if you intend this to be your main trip car taking many trips over 400 miles the SuperCharger network is a joy to use and very well integrated. I would hate doing trips with the Mach-E and I know my frequent trips to Tylertown MS (650 miles) or even Pittsburgh (420 miles) would be a pain with the Mach-E.

 

[voxel]

You’ve captured where my head is at quite well. One additional factor not on your list (because I really haven’t discussed it) is the federal tax incentive. I have been treating these cars on equal footing because I can’t predict what the tax incentive will look like in 2022 when I accept the car. As of today, if they are nearly the same cost (and show up on the same day), I’ll probably go Tesla. If I get a $7.5K tax credit on the Ford (or even better, $12K as is in the house package) and not the equivalent for the Tesla, then I’ll almost certainly go Ford. Timeline matters too, and if I can’t get one of them by Spring I’m not going to wait for it when the other arrives. We need a car in early 2022, not a year from now. Fortunately, my Tesla EDD is currently Feb 19 - Mar 19. And Ford seems to be ramping up production too, with some people who placed their orders the same week I did getting production dates in December.

I will certainly update this thread with my ultimate decision, or if I have additional questions. You have all been a tremendous help, giving me a lot of great information to consider. I am sure there are plenty of others faced with the same decision who will find this thread useful. Thank you all!

The Mach-E is made in Mexico. It won't get anything but the $7.5K credit.

As for folks with production dates in Dec... I think that's part 2021 carryover and or flukes. Expecting the Mach-E to arrive before summer is super-optimistic. I technically am taking over a cancel April order that's was on chip hold until recently and that ETA is already "maybe" Dec because of shipping delays.

 

[dhrivnak]

Yep, that's true. But it points to how little you will probably need to go in for service. The glove box door was due I'm sure to early build error. And the A/C was a bad module. Could happen to any car. Luckily, it presented itself the first summer, so as you say, all under warranty.

As others have stated, your maintenance costs should be significantly less than with an ICE. I don't know about the MME; theoretically, it should be similar. But knowing Ford's dealership model, they will want your service business, regardless of whether you need it or now.

No oil changes, no tune-ups, no emissions checks, probably no brake work needed. Gone will be the days when you have to worry about timing belts, transmissions, fuel injectors, etc. The one higher expense will be tires. But tire manufacturers are coming out with tires for EVs, so hopefully, that won't be as big of an issue going forward.

Unfortunately that is not my experience after owning two tesla's past warranty. None of my gasser's required a repair of over $200 in the first 100,000 miles. Both Tesla's have. The windshield cracked on the Model 3 (stone on the interstate) but while my Volt with cameras was $225 to fix I could not get a third party to fix it and Tesla did at $975, over 4X more than my last windshield. I am far from throwing in the towel but in my experience Tesla's are not low maintenance.

 

[DanDi58]

Unfortunately that is not my experience after owning two tesla's past warranty. None of my gasser's required a repair of over $200 in the first 100,000 miles. Both Tesla's have. The windshield cracked on the Model 3 (stone on the interstate) but while my Volt with cameras was $225 to fix I could not get a third party to fix it and Tesla did at $975, over 4X more than my last windshield. I am far from throwing in the towel but in my experience Tesla's are not low maintenance.

Well, a windshield isn't really a maintenance item per se. If you had been driving an ICE car at the same place and time, it probably would have cracked as well. Granted, the cost for the Tesla windshield is exorbitant at this time but you'd expect that to decrease as new factories come on line and they cut into the wait times (i.e., more parts available for repairs vs new production - which I imagine gets priority).

 

[Dennisis]

Unfortunately that is not my experience after owning two tesla's past warranty. None of my gasser's required a repair of over $200 in the first 100,000 miles. Both Tesla's have. The windshield cracked on the Model 3 (stone on the interstate) but while my Volt with cameras was $225 to fix I could not get a third party to fix it and Tesla did at $975, over 4X more than my last windshield. I am far from throwing in the towel but in my experience Tesla's are not low maintenance.

Wow, guess you didn't own Beemers with HUDs, easy $1500 for a windshield. And how exactly is a cracked windshield a "maintenance" issue?

 

[Corndart]

Unfortunately that is not my experience after owning two tesla's past warranty. None of my gasser's required a repair of over $200 in the first 100,000 miles. Both Tesla's have. The windshield cracked on the Model 3 (stone on the interstate) but while my Volt with cameras was $225 to fix I could not get a third party to fix it and Tesla did at $975, over 4X more than my last windshield. I am far from throwing in the towel but in my experience Tesla's are not low maintenance.

2020 Honda Civic windshield was $895 to replace including a $250 "recalibration" charge for their driver assist sensors. This was not even the dealer, but a place I've always had glass repair and replacement done. Had a rock chip go full on crack within hours.

 

[dhrivnak]

Wow, guess you didn't own Beemers with HUDs, easy $1500 for a windshield. And how exactly is a cracked windshield a "maintenance" issue?

The windshield is not maintenance but the cost at 4x the Volt goes against low cost of ownership. The person was saying the Mach-E is likely more expensive to maintain and I would doubt that.

 

[Dennisis]

The windshield is not maintenance but the cost at 4x the Volt goes against low cost of ownership. The person was saying the Mach-E is likely more expensive to maintain and I would doubt that.

So you’re basing your high cost of ownership comment on a cracked windshield? And lets go back to your comment about 2 “gassers” not requiring repairs of over $200 each in over 100K - that simply did not happen. Even my 15 year old Honda Fit needed a $650 fuel pump replacement and a anti lock brake module in 100K miles. I’m calling BS, didn’t happen. And if it actually somehow did (didn’t), that’s still not a basis for saying Teslas are high cost to maintain. Why would a Mach-e be less?

 

[drtimhill]

Unfortunately that is not my experience after owning two tesla's past warranty. None of my gasser's required a repair of over $200 in the first 100,000 miles. Both Tesla's have. The windshield cracked on the Model 3 (stone on the interstate) but while my Volt with cameras was $225 to fix I could not get a third party to fix it and Tesla did at $975, over 4X more than my last windshield. I am far from throwing in the towel but in my experience Tesla's are not low maintenance.

Do you include the cost of regular maintenance (oil change etc) into the ICE cars? If not, why not?

 

[dhrivnak]

Do you include the cost of regular maintenance (oil change etc) into the ICE cars? If not, why not?

I could as I do my own oil changes. Typically synthetic every 10,000 miles so 11 oil changes, one early at $35 each so add another $350. I had to have my seat sensor replaced and my front control arms replaced on my Model 3 out of warranty which were more.

 

[dhrivnak]

So you’re basing your high cost of ownership comment on a cracked windshield? And lets go back to your comment about 2 “gassers” not requiring repairs of over $200 each in over 100K - that simply did not happen. Even my 15 year old Honda Fit needed a $650 fuel pump replacement and a anti lock brake module in 100K miles. I’m calling BS, didn’t happen. And if it actually somehow did (didn’t), that’s still not a basis for saying Teslas are high cost to maintain. Why would a Mach-e be less?

No the cracked windshield was an example of how much more it is to repair a Tesla over a Chevy. I also has to replace the front control arms and a seat wiring harness on my Model 3. Neither my Prizm, Avalanche or our Prius required any significant repairs in the first 100,000 miles. My sons now drive the Prizm and Avalanche now both over 200,000 without major repairs.

 

[Corndart]

No the cracked windshield was an example of how much more it is to repair a Tesla over a Chevy. I also has to replace the front control arms and a seat wiring harness on my Model 3. Neither my Prizm, Avalanche or our Prius required any significant repairs in the first 100,000 miles. My sons now drive the Prizm and Avalanche now both over 200,000 without major repairs.

I'm also actually shocked that *any* windshield can be replaced for $225. Heck even my old 1994 Wrangler windshield was $250 ish to replace back in the 90's. It's relatively small and flat, and that was 25 years ago.

The control arms and wiring harness weren't covered under warranty?

 

[dhrivnak]

I'm also actually shocked that *any* windshield can be replaced for $225. Heck even my old 1994 Wrangler windshield was $250 ish to replace back in the 90's. It's relatively small and flat, and that was 25 years ago.

The control arms and wiring harness weren't covered under warranty?

No at 68,000 miles even the wiring harness that gave me frequent front left restraint warnings, a safety issue, was deemed outside of warranty. Those repairs were more reasonable at about $175 each.

 

[Dennisis]

No the cracked windshield was an example of how much more it is to repair a Tesla over a Chevy. I also has to replace the front control arms and a seat wiring harness on my Model 3. Neither my Prizm, Avalanche or our Prius required any significant repairs in the first 100,000 miles. My sons now drive the Prizm and Avalanche now both over 200,000 without major repairs.

So at what point will you throw in you rebuilt all 3 Chevy engines around 100,000 but you don't consider it maintenance because you were teaching your boys how ICE's work? And the $250 windshield was for materials so you could manufacture your own at home?...

But seriously, through 68,000 miles you replaced the lower control arms and a wiring harness on your M3, looks like it cost you maybe $1000 or so. I think it's safe to say many of us came from Beemer's and such and we would consider that a bargain for 68,000 miles. I still don't see what you consider the M3 a high cost to own. I doubt that's the typical Tesla owner's opinion.