I have a white interior on my blue stealth. But got it in Sep 2018. And after over 20K miles with 2 young kids, the white interior is holding up well
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Help me decide Stealth vs P3D+
- Thread starter Joabe
- Start date
I have a white interior on my blue stealth. But got it in Sep 2018. And after over 20K miles with 2 young kids, the white interior is holding up well
When I was purchasing I checked with my insurance company and there was 0 difference in the cost of insurance from the 3D and P3D or even the SR+
I also had the option of the P3D- when I was buying and decided not to go with it. There are several reasons why, some ascetics but mostly because the + is more capable of handling speed with it being lower, better brakes, the inverter was more capable of handling more voltage for longer draws, and the rear motor was bigger. One of those facts may not be true, but I chose to believe the alternative facts the people at Tesla gave me. Either way, the Brembo brakes are easier to maintain and service especially since you will not use them very often worth at least $1200. The $4k set of 20” wheels are nice and you will need a second set for winter so just plan for that. Pedals and spoiler can be easily fitted by anyone. Other than the thin red line under duel motor that’s about it.
I bit the bullet and went for the full on Performance. The other legitimate reason for wanting the Base Performance is that it has a tow hitch option (500kg limit; ~1000kg for AWD), wheres the Performance does not at all. But I just couldn't wait the unknown delivery time for one.
The red underline is available for the Base Performance, for every example ive seen here, btw
The red underline is available for the Base Performance, for every example ive seen here, btw
Msjulie
Active Member
All Performance models have the same motors and inverters; non-stealth have bigger rotors, different calipers, different rims+tires, spoiler, minor suspension diffs, some interior bits (pedal covers).
What's best is what's best for you...
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Alternative facts, lies . whatever you want to call it. Although with the vin code change, it may be true things are different now. I am pretty sure the Performance and LR were the same at one point early on minus the extras to save on manufacturing costs, but as production grows, it’s cheaper to only fit a unit with what the company sees as a good compromise between cost and longevity to save money. I am sure Tesla has reached the production tipping point where they can diverge the 2 duel motor versions and save money on parts and manufacturing for the LR. Early on it was probably hard to judge sales and making a unit flexible made the most sense but that time is long gone now.
Msjulie
Active Member
No lies, just facts. Only recently did the motor part # even change for the AWD cars rear motor so yes at one point it appears that the motors for AWD and Performance of any kind were the same.
Tesla (sometimes) sells a Performance car w/o the added bits and it gets track mode software and more go-fast.
Not sure why you find that somehow an alternative truth.. your choice to get one with more gadgets doesn't somehow make the other car less... unless you mean less likely to damage wheels on potholes, less bling, etc...
Sorry wasn’t being literal, I believe Tesla employees are not exactly sure what they are saying and they are clearly not on the same page about anything. It is a fact that all auto manufacturers scale driveline parts to the most cost effective option and sometimes less capable version get more capable parts because it’s more cost effective to have less part numbers and differences in the manufacturing stage. Sometimes it goes the other way, but that’s a calculated risk most car makers don’t take.
My real point is all the people that have the LR and Basic Performance that purchased early probably have the same drivetrain as the Performance model minus big brakes. I believe that changed in 2019 at some point, like everything Tesla, gradual changes on the assembly line. The people at Tesla I talked to had a variation of this story but the main facts stayed consistent. Rear motor changes and inverter changes set apart the LR, and P in 2019 at some point. I am sure if they run out of LR parts they swap in P parts and try to sell it as a Basic Performance to recoup the costs so they don’t slow down production, otherwise they take a calculated hit which only effect the margin slightly. To Tesla, the share holders only care about # of cars delivered and market share.
Msjulie
Active Member
This does seem to be true
If you mean AWD that does appear to be true for the early cars; mine is a 2018 Performance and it has the same motor part # (FWIW) as the non-stealth Performance of the same time and many AWDs as well. The newer Stealth Performance, from various forums' anecdotal evidence (again FWIW) do seem to have the same motors while recent AWD have a new part # out back.
Tesla of course sees no reason to explain further
Exactly they don’t see a need to explain since it will only drive more questions and may impact sales. The basic Performance is more of a mutant than anything. Perfect for red light displays of superiority but nothing more (not a bad thing since that’s what most P3D+ do but ever so slightly slower). I am sure the engineers never meant for the P3D- to go on a track, it just was a economic compromise for street performance and without track performance.
In the end, every person that got an early mutant P3D- actually got the best deal if they never plan on having a track day. I am not convinced that is the same now. You actually get what you purchase now for the most part, not saying there aren’t a few mutants being made at the end of each quarter.
In the end, every person that got an early mutant P3D- actually got the best deal if they never plan on having a track day. I am not convinced that is the same now. You actually get what you purchase now for the most part, not saying there aren’t a few mutants being made at the end of each quarter.
Msjulie
Active Member
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
You got upsold.
My performance upgrades to my P3D- have still come out to less than the $5k PUP package cost back in 2018. I have redone the rear brakes yet. But I don't track it, just the strip.
You are taking this way too personally, I am a person that grew up around performance cars and race teams. Some performance upgrades actually make a car slightly slower from 0-60, like a heavier big brake kit. More weight = slower. What they actually do is allow you to drive faster longer before you have to slow down which makes your faster in a track situation. We can all agree that the P3D- is slightly faster from 0-60 but may be about the same or slightly worse 0-60-0 and absolutely worse if you had to repeatedly do it.
Just because the P3D+ is a better track car doesn’t make it a better car, it just has equipment for dealing with heat better. Unless you push them both hard, you probably would never feel the difference.
I had driven the P3D- and decided that the P3D+ was the better option since it’s all covered by a warranty and I didn’t have to piece together springs, wheels, and brakes as well as knowing the inverter and motors were track tested. If it was a BMW or Audi I would have gone with the less expensive option since many aftermarket options exist.
Just because the P3D+ is a better track car doesn’t make it a better car, it just has equipment for dealing with heat better. Unless you push them both hard, you probably would never feel the difference.
I had driven the P3D- and decided that the P3D+ was the better option since it’s all covered by a warranty and I didn’t have to piece together springs, wheels, and brakes as well as knowing the inverter and motors were track tested. If it was a BMW or Audi I would have gone with the less expensive option since many aftermarket options exist.
Msjulie
Active Member
@MRGEDU Not taking it personally just suggesting your responses might be less, I don't know, derogatory?
I'm not a professional racer or any of that but I was decent enough in auto cross and SCCA club racing so I know my fair share - weight and curb-age potential were just 2 reasons I chose not to get the big 20" rim-equipped Performance variant.
Better is mostly in the eye of the owner I'd agree, when dealing with subjective vs objective attributes.
Edit: my aftermarket brake rotors are lighter than stock and have increased thermal capacity as well - cause I do understand the benefits of both.
I'm not a professional racer or any of that but I was decent enough in auto cross and SCCA club racing so I know my fair share - weight and curb-age potential were just 2 reasons I chose not to get the big 20" rim-equipped Performance variant.
Better is mostly in the eye of the owner I'd agree, when dealing with subjective vs objective attributes.
Edit: my aftermarket brake rotors are lighter than stock and have increased thermal capacity as well - cause I do understand the benefits of both.
ModelNforNerd
Active Member
The inverter/part number thing has never been definitively proven on 2018s, which is when I purchased.
Everyone knows you get more bang for your buck, when you do it yourself. I was more concerned about the things you can’t change, the extras were just a very expensive bonus. I had many conversations with people at Tesla going back to early January 2019 before I purchased in September 2019. My comments are not speculation or guessing, they are a culmination of conversations I had with several people at Tesla. I had found the service centers are useless for details about the car and the corporate people hard to locate, but once you do locate a good one, you can get almost any answer you need with out completing a NDA. Unfortunately they also don’t stick around that long either.
I Truly believe (assume) the P3D+ only cost slightly more than the LR to produce, not counting the development costs. Either way it was developed for high stress driving and the LR or PD3- wasn’t according to Tesla employees. All are very capable versions this is just reality of the “Performance” version, personally I think the best version was the LR rear wheel drive even though I didn’t buy it (opinion). I am sure people are not just throwing around assumptions on here just because they want to have something to say. I did research as well and if I would have purchased an early LR Duel Motor or P3D-, I would be pretty happy that I made a perfect choice. On the flip side, I am sure they will quickly remind you how much they payed for that perfect choice.
You just need to remember you get what you pay for now starting somewhere in early to mid 2019.
I Truly believe (assume) the P3D+ only cost slightly more than the LR to produce, not counting the development costs. Either way it was developed for high stress driving and the LR or PD3- wasn’t according to Tesla employees. All are very capable versions this is just reality of the “Performance” version, personally I think the best version was the LR rear wheel drive even though I didn’t buy it (opinion). I am sure people are not just throwing around assumptions on here just because they want to have something to say. I did research as well and if I would have purchased an early LR Duel Motor or P3D-, I would be pretty happy that I made a perfect choice. On the flip side, I am sure they will quickly remind you how much they payed for that perfect choice.
You just need to remember you get what you pay for now starting somewhere in early to mid 2019.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There aren't any.
Which is a shame because most of them have no idea WTF they're talking about- as evidenced by you repeated a number of claims previously, factually, debunked with hard data.
Not sure what "high stress" driving is- but the + and - are physically the same vehicle apart from the brakes, wheels, pedal/spoiler, and a 0.39 inch lower suspension on the -
You can verify this yourself with the online parts catalog Tesla publishes.
Same inverters. Same motors. Same batteries, etc.
Nothing, at all, changed in 2019 regarding P3D- and P3D+
Only thing that changed is some non-P cars (AWDs specifically) starting getting a 990 drive unit in the rear instead of the 980 that everything else always came with to that point.
FYI- the Short-range RWD cars still get the same 980 your performance has
That would only be true if you didn't put the same tires on both cars.
The brake difference would have zero impact on that test. The brakes don't stop the car- the tires do.
(and indeed, owners here have tested this and found with the same PS4S tires the P3D+ comes with the 18" wheels and the 'regular' brakes stop the car in the same distance as those tires stop the P3D+ just as physics requires.
Eventually- sure. Better brakes don't stop you any shorter- they can't. But they can insure you stop the same as the first time over repeatedly stops without taking time to cool anything down.
But as noted, you can get better than the P3D+ brakes for less than the price difference- even paying to have em professionally installed- if you're someone who is expecting to do very frequent high speed braking.
Again- literally the same parts on both cars as shown in Teslas own parts catalog and from pics posted by tons of actual owners confirming the PNs on their drive units.
Honestly I am not sure why I even engaged in this conversation since everyone wants to base their fact on what was and not what is right now.
Since we are talking about things that make no sense, I am sure everyone will get the LR unlocked with an OTA update to Performance mode since they are all the same, it’s probably coming out 2020 Q1. Give the “software locked” people a glimmer of hope right? I am also expecting Ludicrous mode soon too maybe 2020 Q3. The Performance variant is nothing but cut springs, red brakes and wheels for $6k so why bother.
Just do like my friend did with his Mustang Ecoboost get these (image below) to complete the package since the GT didn’t offer anything more. They actually look real.
I think I contributed enough to this specific conversation.. I am out.
Since we are talking about things that make no sense, I am sure everyone will get the LR unlocked with an OTA update to Performance mode since they are all the same, it’s probably coming out 2020 Q1. Give the “software locked” people a glimmer of hope right? I am also expecting Ludicrous mode soon too maybe 2020 Q3. The Performance variant is nothing but cut springs, red brakes and wheels for $6k so why bother.
Just do like my friend did with his Mustang Ecoboost get these (image below) to complete the package since the GT didn’t offer anything more. They actually look real.
I think I contributed enough to this specific conversation.. I am out.
Dolemite
is my name
P3D- if you don't care for the upgrades or plan on doing them yourself. P3D+ if you don't want to deal with it and want the 20" donks.
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