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Help me save this salvage car

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Mike K, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    Here's the scoop guys. After my last salvage car, I got a bug for another project and have been looking for a follow-up. Yesterday that car presented itself to me. The owner is a body shop. They purchased the car, did the bodywork and hoped to then sell it. They got it with 70 miles of range and said it lot drove when they received it. What it wouldn't do is charge.

    Now it has 0 miles of range which has apparently been the case for nearly three weeks. I searched for the VIN and saw the original accident. It was a hard rear end hit. I took a look at the car today with the intention of buying it if I could easily pin the no charge issue to low 12v voltage or a blown pyro fuse. The body work is hokey and though the car looks ok, it's clearly not straight which is evident by the right rear seat not latching into place. It's not for me. I did however take a lot of pictures and for anyone looking to get in contact with the seller, I bet you could grab this for 20k.

    In the meantime...

    ...I'd like to help him get a charge in the battery if it's possible so that the car isn't totally useless. Pretty much the only thing working on this car right now is the computer. The other systems (brake vacuum pump, suspension compressor, AC compressor, etc) are all DOA. I assume this is because of the lack of high voltage. I know AC is run off of high voltage so that's a no go. What I don't know is if the car kills other systems as the high voltage system is depleted. The big thing though is getting a charge on the battery.

    Charging Symptoms
    • Car will open charge door but the light ring remains red and the locking pin never releases
    • Displays 2 errors, both "Car Needs Service": "Pull over safely" and "Contact Tesla Service"
    But then the guy told me he's bypassed that pin before and when he did that...
    • Charging cable will insert and lock into place
    • Light ring turns light blue
    • Enabling charging on the car gives no error. No "charge cable fault" or "charge cable not fully inserted" or "check charge cable power". Nothing like that. It simply says charging will start momentarily and the stops charging. When this happens the ring turns red
    • Pressing the button on the charge cable will release it from the port. Removing the cable results in the light ring instantly turning red.
    What I checked:
    • Pyro Fuse - Kind of throwing a dart at a dartboard on this one. No airbags deployed and they said the car lot drove at some point but it's an easy check. No issues here.
    • 12v System Voltage - Voltage was low (11.4v) so we connected a jumper to the car and brought the voltage up to 12.5v at the junction box. This made no difference.
    So then, anyone else want to offer up any ideas? With three weeks on the battery at 0 range I suspect it's done for if he doesn't get a charge on it relatively soon. It was a rear hit so the battery contactors could be an issue as well. They're definitely not engaging but I don't know if that's the problem or a symptom.
     
  2. Edmond

    Edmond Permanon

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    Yuk. Fixing a badly-fixed car is twice the work. Check the fuses, but let it go.
     
  3. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Haha, this is exactly the same behavior my car is presenting right now!!!

    What is VIN? (or year, batt configuration and motor configuration)

    I'm checking my HVIL loop tonight as well as one of the HV rails in the HVJB for leakage current, let's see if I find what the problem is.

    Does this error flash as well "power reduced and car will not charge" (part of one of the contact tesla for service messages)?

    What is the cost for this gem? haha...
     
  4. SPXMike

    SPXMike Member

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    I had an intermittent 12v problem that was eventually traced to a microswitch in the HVJB. I would get 12v faults, no start condition, didn't want to charge. Jumping the 12v didn't help. After my second trip to the SC they finally found it. If the lid is pulled from the HVJB the microswitch opens and kills everything. My microswitch was closed but the resistance when closed was a tad higher than allowed. The HVJB is under the right rear seat I believe. Sounds like the car is crooked in that area. Who knows? Maybe the box got slugged hard enough to open the switch?
     
    • Informative x 1
  5. Ingineer

    Ingineer Electrical Engineer

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    If the HVIL (High Voltage Interlock) was the problem, the car would never have driven. HVIL faults kill all high-voltage in the car.

    I would guess a fault in the charge port or the cabling to it, but without entering diagnostic mode, there is no way to say for sure.
     
    • Informative x 1
  6. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Yes, entering diag mode is the true key to all this! thinking of desoldering ROM and extracting data, same way I did for the Roadster VMS and BMB's...
     
  7. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    I'm right there with you. I've been down the salvage road before but my last car was fixed nicely and didn't have overt frame damage like this. Plus it ran...

    I want to say it's a 13,000 VIN... somewhere in that range. No errors other than the two I posted. The car is a 2013 S85. He's asking $30,000, says he'll take $25,000 and I'm confident I can get him somewhere in the 15 - 20k range. I mean, he's fully aware that he's on the verge of losing the battery permanently. He's out of options and he's the first one to admit it.

    This is golden. Thank you so much for taking the time to post it. This would actually make sense since the car was driven three weeks ago before it was repaired and it's a rear end hit. The seat for sure has been out of the car. Did your charge port act similarly when this happened to you?

    And I presume there's no easy way to enter diagnostic mode?
     
  8. SPXMike

    SPXMike Member

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    My charge port did act up. It was very intermittent. At first it wouldn't take the plug it just gave me a red ring. Then a couple hours later it took the plug and started charging. Then a couple hours later I pulled the plug but car wouldn't come out of park. Multiple 12v error messages. Wouldn't take the plug again - red ring. I gave up. Next morning car was fine. Drove it to Buena Park SC. Later that day they said the problem was the limit switch, swapped out the entire HVJB, gave me the car back, and haven't had any problems over the last 4 months.

    I can't say this is your problem. I don't even know how common my problem is. I just wanted to relate my experience. Good luck Mike. Wish I could be more help...
     
  9. Btr_ftw

    Btr_ftw Court Jester

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    Ingineer is spot on. There are too many things back there that could be causing the charging issue. In order to properly diagnose the diag mode would have to be entered. The mcu would have to be removed and blah blah etc. (stuff you probably dont care too much about for a car that isnt in your possession) the reason for the vin# is that sometimes a guy that knows another guy that knows a guy (that used to be a woman) that is sleeping with another girl who may or may not work at Tesla can pull diagnostic info from the car...

    Its too bad you dont own the car as the first thing id do is rip apart the rear interior trim and look for poor connections in the wiring harness near the charge port.

    I would power down the car (hv isolation procedure) then remove rear seat and trace wiring harness for any breaks or loose connections. If the rear was hit that hard there could be compromises. Can you source before photos of the car?

    If they did that hokey of a job with bodywork then there is no telling how the rear harness was repaired.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  10. satoshi

    satoshi Electrical Engineering Student

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    Because I like you: 2013 TESLA MODEL S

    There's a good chance this is the car they are talking about.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  11. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    So we have a car with what we believe is an intact battery pack that's dangerously drained, and it can't be charged because of other problems with the car, which we can't identify at this time?

    The pack is designed with Quick disconnects, right?

    Maybe the easiest answer to rescue the pack is to drop it off of that car and swap it onto an intact (or at least less broken,) car for long enough to charge it to a safe level?
     
  12. Btr_ftw

    Btr_ftw Court Jester

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    Assuming that is the car, I would pay 5$ to see that thing "lot drive"

    There is also a nice hit near the charge port wiring (ruh roh...), curious to see how they repaired the wiring around the motor subframe, this seems like something you may also have to jack up and check the connections to the battery itself, from 70 miles to zero miles in 3 weeks for a car that hasn't been driven... hmmmm...
     
  13. brantse

    brantse Member

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    To quote Ron White..."the wheel fell the f*ck off".

    **Disclaimer** Very vulgar language!


    Yeah, I don't think that thing's driving anywhere.
     
  14. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    So, found something strange (to me anyways) in mine... The pyrofuse was blown! However, it would drive... I don't have a pyrofuse (just ordered one though) but I jumped the terminals, no change in behavior (save, it does go into D "quicker", b4 it was hesitant but would do it anyways)... Nothing changed in the charging behavior though.

    Now looking at wires it appears there was some "molestation" in that area, the charging port was missing one of the 4 bolts that hold it in place, very curious since this vehicle was not damaged in that area at all... However, all wires appear intact and connectors connected properly, verified HVIL switch on charge-port didn't change anything about the behavior...
     
  15. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    That would be the thing to do but really only for someone that has the space. He doesn't have another Tesla that he can do it with. I think he's kind of up S creek here without a paddle.

    I think "lot drive" might have been a term I used, not him. He just told me he was able to drive it three weeks ago. He was in his office much of the time and the employee that was helping me also told me that they were able to drive it.
     
  16. Ingineer

    Ingineer Electrical Engineer

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    There's absolutely no way it will drive with a blown pyrofuse, unless someone bypassed it somehow.

    The pyrofuse cuts power to the HV contactors so there is no way HV will leave the pack with it open.
     
  17. Mike K

    Mike K Member

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    The pyrofuse was fine and no airbags were blown but it doesn't matter. I'm not going to be following up on this car. It's not worth the hassle it's caused.
     
  18. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Where might one bypass this? I am not being dishonest, my vehicle literally has a blown pyrofuse, unless testing for resistance isn't how you test a pyrofuse?

    I wonder if however the previous folks bypassed the pyrofuse is what is causing me problems now...
     
  19. satoshi

    satoshi Electrical Engineering Student

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    Two ways to test whether or not a pyrofuse is blown or not:

    Test resistance (near 0 = not blown, otherwise = blown).

    If you have a multi-meter with a conductivity setting, you can set it to that and it will give a nice "beep" if a complete circuit exists. Open/No Beep = Blown, Beep = Not blown.

    There are a number of ways to bypass the pyrofuse, so thoroughly checking that circuit might be a good idea.
     
  20. ElectricLove

    ElectricLove Member

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    Yeah, I knew the process but wanted to test my sane-o-meter, haha... It's definitely, without a doubt, blown... I'll start looking at the circuit itself, after perusing the wiring diagrams for it...
     

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