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Help me understand potential issues with battery pack after a few hundred thousand miles

jjomaski

Member
Feb 23, 2017
15
3
buffalo ny
with an ice car at say 200,000 miles many things can go wrong. Some can be replaced some just aren’t worth it . Also they just stop working . Now help me understand a model 3 . If I have 200,000 miles on it what can happen. If the main battery goes bad is it just stop completely or is it a case of slowly not charging to a full range . What other problems can occur . The reason I am asking is I see more posts expecting 500,000 miles . I can drive as much as 50,000 miles a year and if I take a 5 year loan that means 250,000 when it’s paid off .
 
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C141medic

Active Member
Apr 9, 2016
1,714
1,497
New Jersey
what can happen. If the main battery goes bad
Not sure I understand what you’re asking? The main issue you may have with your battery over 200,000 miles will obviously be degradation. Compared with other EV’s Tesla batteries are superior and don’t degrade as much as other batteries. As far as how much to expect, it depends on a few factors but I don’t think anyone can say exactly how much range you’ll lose over a certain time. But, I don’t think major range loss is an issue with Tesla vehicles.
I can drive as much as 50,000 miles a year
Just consider how much you’ll save over gas driving 50K miles a year. And don’t forget no oil changes, timing belt replacements, etc. I wouldn’t worry about the miles you’re going to put on the car. If you’re going to keep it for a while it shouldn’t be a big deal. There are a few threads and YouTube videos on owners who’ve reached 50K miles. I’d suggest taking a look there for more info.
 
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jjomaski

Member
Feb 23, 2017
15
3
buffalo ny
Not sure I understand what you’re asking? The main issue you may have with your battery over 200,000 miles will obviously be degradation. Compared with other EV’s Tesla batteries are superior and don’t degrade as much as other batteries. As far as how much to expect, it depends on a few factors but I don’t think anyone can say exactly how much range you’ll lose over a certain time. But, I don’t think major range loss is an issue with Tesla vehicles.

Just consider how much you’ll save over gas driving 50K miles a year. And don’t forget no oil changes, timing belt replacements, etc. I wouldn’t worry about the miles you’re going to put on the car. If you’re going to keep it for a while it shouldn’t be a big deal. There are a few threads and YouTube videos on owners who’ve reached 50K miles. I’d suggest taking a look there for more info.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,928
7,720
Visalia, CA
...500,000 miles...

Tesloop has run up one car to 400,000 miles already. It expects to reach 1,000,000 miles with minimal cost.

...If the main battery goes bad is it just stop completely or is it a case of slowly not charging to a full range...

If it can still maintain 70% capacity, it's still good.

The degradation is gradual so you won't be left stranded on the road because you can plan. Suppose that it used to say 310 miles for a full charge but now it would say 217 miles. You just have to stop and charge in between as opposed to when you didn't have to stop for a charge at all.

However, at the end of its life, when it is degraded beyond the point of usefulness, you might see it fails quickly over a few more charges or trips. I wouldn't take a long trip at that time. For example, the full charge now says 50 miles, I wouldn't dare to take a 30 mile trip because as I start driving, it might revise the range as 20 miles instead.


...What other problems can occur...

Like anything, there are things that can be broken but the most expensive ones are drive unit and main battery which both are covered for 8 years / 120,000 miles for Long Range whichever first.

Your screen can go bad. Same with HVAC, Suspension, Axles...
 
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CharleyBC

Active Member
Jun 28, 2019
1,403
1,589
Talent, OR
If the main battery goes bad is it just stop completely or is it a case of slowly not charging to a full range
Well, none of us are there yet that I know of. But I think your slow degradation scenario is far more likely. After a whole bunch of years, your 310-mile battery is only giving you 275, say. But it’s still getting you where you want to go. Sure, a catastrophic, sudden total failure is possible, but the battery also carries the longest warranty.
 

Wennfred

Supporting Member
Apr 4, 2019
2,956
1,918
San Diego
A Youtuber model 3 has reached 50,000 miles and his battery degraded 9 miles. He has a Long Range.... Not bad, note that his daily charge methods is to top it off at 80%

Fred
 
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Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,296
6,858
Canyon Lake,CA
If you drive 50,000 miles a year, you are going to love the savings you will get with the Tesla.

The time you will spend Supercharging will be offset by the number of gas station stops you will eliminate by starting off every morning with a full (+300 miles) charge.
 

Ptheven

Member
Mar 9, 2019
138
138
Kellyfornya
Tesloop has run up one car to 400,000 miles already. It expects to reach 1,000,000 miles with minimal cost.



If it can still maintain 70% capacity, it's still good.

The degradation is gradual so you won't be left stranded on the road because you can plan. Suppose that it used to say 310 miles for a full charge but now it would say 217 miles. You just have to stop and charge in between as opposed to when you didn't have to stop for a charge at all.

However, at the end of its life, when it is degraded beyond the point of usefulness, you might see it fails quickly over a few more charges or trips. I wouldn't take a long trip at that time. For example, the full charge now says 50 miles, I wouldn't dare to take a 30 mile trip because as I start driving, it might revise the range as 20 miles instead.




Like anything, there are things that can be broken but the most expensive ones are drive unit and main battery which both are covered for 8 years / 120,000 miles for Long Range whichever first.

Your screen can go bad. Same with HVAC, Suspension, Axles...


The Tesloop car is basically the ship of Theseus at this point. Let's also not forget that we Model 3 folk don't get the unlimited mileage powertrain warranty.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,069
4,696
MA, NH
Like anything, there are things that can be broken but the most expensive ones are drive unit and main battery which both are covered for 8 years / 120,000 miles for Long Range whichever first.

Your screen can go bad. Same with HVAC, Suspension, Axles...

And his warranty goes poof in a little over 2 years. With 3 years of payments to go.

I personally wouldn’t mind paying for extending the battery / drive unit warranty.

120 k miles is not that much for some drivers and many ICE cars. 200K without many serious issues is pretty common these days.

It’s currently $40k to replace a roadster battery.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,928
7,720
Visalia, CA
...$40k...

Although the main battery is only covered for 120,000 miles but it is expected to last much longer and the repair cost much cheaper than Roadster and S and X:


Elon Musk
@elonmusk


Replying to
@Gfilche
Model 3 drive unit & body is designed like a commercial truck for a million mile life. Current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules (not pack) will only cost $5k to $7k.
9:18 AM · Apr 13, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,609
3,281
Maine
with an ice car at say 200,000 miles many things can go wrong. Some can be replaced some just aren’t worth it . Also they just stop working . Now help me understand a model 3 . If I have 200,000 miles on it what can happen. If the main battery goes bad is it just stop completely or is it a case of slowly not charging to a full range . What other problems can occur . The reason I am asking is I see more posts expecting 500,000 miles . I can drive as much as 50,000 miles a year and if I take a 5 year loan that means 250,000 when it’s paid off .
You sound like a candidate for gap insurance.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,069
4,696
MA, NH
Although the main battery is only covered for 120,000 miles but it is expected to last much longer and the repair cost much cheaper than Roadster and S and X:


Elon Musk
@elonmusk


Replying to
@Gfilche
Model 3 drive unit & body is designed like a commercial truck for a million mile life. Current battery modules should last 300k to 500k miles (1500 cycles). Replacing modules (not pack) will only cost $5k to $7k.
9:18 AM · Apr 13, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

I know all the marketing hype. It will take time to prove it.

There are folks that have gone through 3 drive units on Model S. Suspension issues. Door handle issues. Screen issues. All at very high costs. Given some early issues on Model 3 it’s hard to say if any of what’s been posted is significant given the higher volumes or not.

$5-7K for a battery module is a LOT of money. And if one goes, how much time before another goes? That’s way more than I’ve spent on maintenance on the entire ownership running 200k+ miles on two different ICE Vehicles.

The only thing that will make this manageable is 3rd party repair/refurb shops and higher volume.

Ive also read recently it’s much harder to access modules in Model 3 battery pack due to density and gluing and cooling plumbing.

And have you watched what it takes to remove the battery pack on a Model 3? It’s ridiculous. A few folks with newish cars have posted they have a bad cell and need a new pack. Sure wouldn’t be a happy camper having my car go through this invasion operation. Check it out. This just doesn’t look like Tesla thought this through of maintaining the battery for the long haul. Probably a days labor to get pack out and in at $180/hr. That doesn’t even get to the labor of repairing the pack and the parts.

 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,599
1,626
Richland, WA
I know all the marketing hype. It will take time to prove it.

There are folks that have gone through 3 drive units on Model S. Suspension issues. Door handle issues. Screen issues. All at very high costs. Given some early issues on Model 3 it’s hard to say if any of what’s been posted is significant given the higher volumes or not.

$5-7K for a battery module is a LOT of money. And if one goes, how much time before another goes? That’s way more than I’ve spent on maintenance on the entire ownership running 200k+ miles on two different ICE Vehicles.

The only thing that will make this manageable is 3rd party repair/refurb shops and higher volume.

Ive also read recently it’s much harder to access modules in Model 3 battery pack due to density and gluing and cooling plumbing.

And have you watched what it takes to remove the battery pack on a Model 3? It’s ridiculous. A few folks with newish cars have posted they have a bad cell and need a new pack. Sure wouldn’t be a happy camper having my car go through this invasion operation. Check it out. This just doesn’t look like Tesla thought this through of maintaining the battery for the long haul. Probably a days labor to get pack out and in at $180/hr. That doesn’t even get to the labor of repairing the pack and the parts.


You’re right, it’s like they’re not expecting to replace packs. There are a couple Model X vehicles used by Tesloop that have done 300k miles on the original battery and drive units. Those vehicles have been supercharged very frequently (three or four times a DAY). Of course they also had a Model S that required three packs, all replaced under warranty, but still.

I would say those cars are stressed to the max. Multiple supercharging sessions a day and 100k+ miles a year is insane.

Assuming the Model 3 pack and cells are designed for better longevity (which is what Musk has said) and looking at some of the historical data, as long as there aren’t specific pack or cell failures, I suspect 200,000 miles wouldn’t be abnormal. Even at a higher range of 15k miles a year that’s over 13 years. I think the average car is about 7 years, so I suspect the battery will age well.

If you do have failures I would suspect you would see them within the first 100k miles which is what the Tesla warranty is.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,069
4,696
MA, NH
You’re right, it’s like they’re not expecting to replace packs. There are a couple Model X vehicles used by Tesloop that have done 300k miles on the original battery and drive units. Those vehicles have been supercharged very frequently (three or four times a DAY). Of course they also had a Model S that required three packs, all replaced under warranty, but still.

I would say those cars are stressed to the max. Multiple supercharging sessions a day and 100k+ miles a year is insane.

Assuming the Model 3 pack and cells are designed for better longevity (which is what Musk has said) and looking at some of the historical data, as long as there aren’t specific pack or cell failures, I suspect 200,000 miles wouldn’t be abnormal. Even at a higher range of 15k miles a year that’s over 13 years. I think the average car is about 7 years, so I suspect the battery will age well.

If you do have failures I would suspect you would see them within the first 100k miles which is what the Tesla warranty is.

Keep in mind those high mileage Model S were back when it was unlimited mileage warranty on the pack.

I’m sure many will go a good distance. The question is how many.

I’d be a whole lot more comfy with that older unlimited mileage warranty. And if the packs were that good, why did they get rid of that warranty?
 
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acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,599
1,626
Richland, WA
Keep in mind those high mileage Model S were back when it was unlimited mileage warranty on the pack.

I’m sure many will go a good distance. The question is how many.

I’d be a whole lot more comfy with that older unlimited mileage warranty. And if the packs were that good, why did they get rid of that warranty?

Probably specifically to avoid abuse like that. The warranty wasn’t designed with fleet use in mind. There is a big difference in stress with doing 150 miles a day and overnight 7kW to 11kW charging vs 300+ miles a day with three or four supercharging sessions a day. It’s probably the repeated supercharging sessions and deeper discharge that did damage to the packs. That’s subjecting the car to a lot of heat for a long period or time; high speed driving for a couple hours, supercharging to 95%+ and high speed driving, then repeat. The car can handle that in moderation, when doing a long distance trip, but daily for 120k miles is like an accelerated stress test. Even still, it sounds like Model X handle that well with just a couple years more of design differences from the S.
 

N54TT

Member
Aug 14, 2018
933
716
NY
with an ice car at say 200,000 miles many things can go wrong. Some can be replaced some just aren’t worth it . Also they just stop working . Now help me understand a model 3 . If I have 200,000 miles on it what can happen. If the main battery goes bad is it just stop completely or is it a case of slowly not charging to a full range . What other problems can occur . The reason I am asking is I see more posts expecting 500,000 miles . I can drive as much as 50,000 miles a year and if I take a 5 year loan that means 250,000 when it’s paid off .

Curious what you have now? What cars have you had in the past that went 250k miles?
 

glide

Active Member
Jun 6, 2018
3,290
3,393
USA
with an ice car at say 200,000 miles many things can go wrong. Some can be replaced some just aren’t worth it . Also they just stop working . Now help me understand a model 3 . If I have 200,000 miles on it what can happen. If the main battery goes bad is it just stop completely or is it a case of slowly not charging to a full range . What other problems can occur . The reason I am asking is I see more posts expecting 500,000 miles . I can drive as much as 50,000 miles a year and if I take a 5 year loan that means 250,000 when it’s paid off .

Tesla will kneecap your battery after a few years (regardless of mileage). I’d be more concerned about that than degradation.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
6,069
4,696
MA, NH
Curious what you have now? What cars have you had in the past that went 250k miles?

You didn’t ask me.

But we had a 99 VW Passat with a 2.8L V6 (not the crappy narrow V6) but the longitudinal mounted V6 (same setup as Audi A6) at the time. And this was a manual transmission. 12 years and 230K and sold it to a VW mechanic for his son. Ran like a top when we sold it, still on original clutch too. Had a 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee straight 6. Also 12 years 230K. And it had a major accident around 60K miles. I thought for sure I’d dump it after repair but it ran like a top. Just a few seals here and there. Tires lasted 70k miles each time. And engine tapped a lot when cold. But it was a beast. I beat the crap out of it too. Neither car was ever aligned. Except after accident on Jeep. I do my own oil changes at 7500 miles. Paint was in great shape on both cars when sold. Original exhaust on both cars too. But V6 exhaust was on the hairy edge when we sold it and was like $2000 to replace it. No rust on either car. suspension was tired though. Interior was very good on both cars too, considering age. Jeep did have a known HVAC defect that was very expensive to fix. Some guy on eBay came up with a work around I did myself for $100.00. Broken damper.

VW was nothing but brakes, battery (one), tires and oil. And may have had an early warranty claim. Light bulbs (more than usual with day time headlights). Jeep was nothing but tires, brakes, battery (one), couple seals (launching boat with rear end under water does that). HVAC fix. Maybe shocks I think.

Oh might have tuned either car once during ownership. And VW did get preventative timing chain. Always changed transmission fluid and differential fluid on Jeep.

After that round I’ve been on a buying spree wanting highest safety tech given our age and the amount we still want to drive. Worth the price. Replaced Jeep 3 times (for newer tech) in last 5 years. Now replaced again with Model X for the same reasons. Bad habit lately. But hard to put a price on safety. I don’t care as much about longevity as I used to and safety is very high on the list as well as environmental impact. Which I’m still not 100% sure of with EV/Tesla. We may not know all the cost until 50 years from now.
 
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