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Help me with pricing advice

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by Shumdit, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    I am looking at a used P85 Performance Plus. Only 400 miles on it, and every option that was available before the new options (parking sensors, cold weather, yacht floor) were added and the price was adjusted by Tesla. It also has the service plan and the factory paint armor. Sticker today would be about just over $132K before the $7500 credit (which I won't get obviously). Any thoughts on what a good deal, and what a GREAT deal would be if you were buying it with your hard earned money. PS- I am a tightwad, so picture yourself that way too when doing your math!:wink:
     
  2. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Car is worth as much as the seller will take, and you will offer.

    So what are you offering? You can ask us, but the person you need to be speaking with is seller.
     
  3. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Well, I've seen the same 6 or so used Model Ss for sale in CA for 2-3 weeks now. They're all in the $100-130k range. Most of them are more expensive than a similarly-equipped brand new one. So the used market is probably being very unrealistic due to the waits for new ones. Further, IMO, the $7500 credit should be built into the used price until at least such a time as it's no longer available for new buyers. I wouldn't consider buying used until I was saving many thousands over what it cost new.

    That said, you're not really helping us. What's the asking price?
     
  4. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    #4 Shumdit, Oct 3, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
    I am speaking with the seller, but I figured you more experienced enthusiasts would have an opinion. There never seems to be a shortage of those on the internet.


    I thought I was the one supposed to be getting help. You asking me for help is like asking a blind man if you look fat in those jeans.

    Since the wait for a new P85 or P85+ is only one month and that is assuming they do not already have a suitable car built and ready (which they do have some brand new ones ready to buy) I think paying a premium for that makes little sense. There is a dealer in Cali that keeps asking $120-130 for every P85 he gets, but he's a high line dealer and I think they must just build in a ton of haggle room or look for a sucker to walk in the door. It's likely the ones you are referring to also. On the other end, I have seen that one P85+ here that Jeddi just bought and I do not know what he paid, but I think it was about $105K based on what I saw. That seems like a pretty great deal for a car with 1100 miles and all of those options. This car has more options and less miles than it, but maybe that price was not as good of a deal as I assume it was, which is why I asked for an opinion from you guys/gals. What did you mean about the $7500 credit? I would think if a car was $130K on the sticker it would automatically be worth no more than $122.5K even with one mile on it once it had been titled since only the original owner can claim the federal tax credit. Is that not correct?
     
  5. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    No need to get angry. You've never seen Jerry Maguire? Help us help you.

    The most relevant pieces of info are: 1) What was the sticker price, 2) What is the asking price, 3) What is its condition/reason for selling. We can say "it's worth $105k" if that's what you want, but if the seller doesn't agree, then it doesn't really matter.

    Regarding the credit, that's exactly what I meant. Deduct the credit from the sticker price of the car as a starting point, and start working backwards from there.
     
  6. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    Sorry if my humor comes across as anger. Not intended that way. I thought I was funny, you thought I was pissed off. We were apparently both wrong! :wink:

    Thanks for the follow up. I think we are on the same page in regards to the tax credit deduction issue. The condition is perfect except one curbed wheel and we are discussing that being deducted from the cost. The reason for selling I do not feel comfortable disclosing out of respect for their situation, but I will say it has nothing to do with the car and is about the need to free up cash. This is not the only asset they are selling. Sticker was right at $123K and would be a bit over $130K with the new pricing that just took effect in August (not including the tax deduction, so more like $116K or 123K now with that $7500 deducted.
     
  7. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Good info. OK. Selling for financial reasons is perfectly specific, no further details required.

    If it were me, I'd be looking to make an offer somewhere in the $108-$110k range. Seller is, obviously, going to want their $123k back. Needing the money can often translate in a great deal for you, but you'll probably end up somewhere in the middle. So to your original question, I'd say: Great = $108-110k, Good = ~$115k.

    From the seller's perspective, @$115k they're losing $8k + whatever the tax was in their state. Depending on how long they've been trying to sell, they may not be open to that. The reality is they're going to eat the tax no matter what (you have to pay tax on it also, the state is doing awesome in this deal). You're just haggling on how much it depreciated in the 400 miles they had it.

    If you want to factor in what the options currently cost you can, but I probably wouldn't.

    Also keep in mind that if you're financing, loan rates may be higher on used cars. This can sometimes be a bargaining point.

    Good luck.
     
  8. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    @Shumdit
    Whenever I consider doing such an evaluation, I do the following:
    1. Spec out the closest configuration I can at teslamotors.com. This includes adjustments "that seem right" to account for options that are no longer available, things that have been made to be "included", etc. Basically try to make it a "fair" comparison.
    2. Come up with a discounting rate that you consider reasonable for distance ($1/mile?) and age ($xyz/month?). If you don't have a good estimate in mind, ask Tesla what their current rate is for when they sell used vehicles such as loaners.
    3. Account for the federal rebate difference.
    4. Come up with a way of measuring the value to you of having the car "tomorrow" rather than "in a month or whatever". Is the instant gratification and/or fuel savings for a "month or whatever" worth $500? $1,500? etc.

    That should get you a rough ballpark to start with.


    One really nice benefit of Tesla's sales model (read: "goodbye dealerships, it's not me it's you") is that you can just dial up a comparable vehicle estimate quickly on a whim without having to talk to a human at all. (I have nothing against humans.)
     
  9. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    Thanks for the continued feedback from you all. I feel with the recent price increase and package changes that Tesla did back in August that this car will be a much better deal. It's the right color combo for me and has options I would not have paid for if I were spec'ing out the car at a lower price to boot. I think the seller and I have come to terms on the price so I hope to be joining the "club" soon (pun intended). Now I have to figure out the logistics of a 900 mile first trip. Any pointers to keep me from sitting dead on the side of the road? I assume there are apps or sites to help plan an EV trip?
     
  10. texex91

    texex91 Banned

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    Google EV CHARGE STATIONS.

    This is a good start http://www.plugshare.com/ (plus of course the Tesla Superchargers).
     
  11. Shumdit

    Shumdit Member

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    Thanks. So much came up when I googled that yesterday it was hard to figure out what the best source of info would be.
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    #1 suggestion:
    Allocate more time than you need by a lot. Enjoy the trip, plan your overnight stays and don't be in a rush.

    There are 110V outlets everywhere* so the only reason to run out of charge in good weather is poor planning and/or impatience with waiting for a slow charge.

    * Except at the tops of some mountains and such, but for typical road trips this is a non-issue.
     
  13. paulkva

    paulkva Member

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    Congrats on the upcoming purchase! As for the long trip:

    * I fully agree with allocating lots of extra time and not being in a rush.
    * In addition to plugshare.com and any superchargers, check out recargo.com (same company, one bought the other, and there's still slightly different data).
    * Join the charging networks ahead of time -- SemaCharge, ChargePoint, maybe Blink, there might be others as well. (Blink is apparently having financial troubles. I haven't joined them yet.)
    * And all of the above services have iPhone (and presumably Android) apps -- quite valuable on the road.
    * Keep in mind you can charge at many campgrounds, you can search on sites like koa.com. Just ask in advance if they have "50 amp service" and if they'll let you charge your EV for a few hours (or however long).
    * Also keep in mind many campgrounds are closed for the winter.
    * Relatively few hotels advertise outdoor outlets or EV charging capability, but some do make them available to guests. Ask in advance, don't just pull up and plug in unless it's clearly a charging station for EVs.
    * Last but not least, check out http://evtripper.com/planner/carview_beta/ -- it takes into account speed, Model S battery size, passenger/cargo weight, elevation, wind speed (!), and of course distance, when estimating energy usage.

    I just drove ~500 miles round-trip from DC to Pittsburgh and back, and I'm about to do it again. At the moment there are very few options for charging in between, but I made it with no problem. Details here if you're interested:
    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19487-DC-Pittsburgh-driving-charging-experience
     
  14. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    That's the first time I'm come across somebody post that link, and it looks fantastic! Takes into account elevation changes and everything. *Very* cool. Thanks!
     

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