Help! Need advice regarding HV battery issue/replacement

[johnyoung1234]

I have a 2013 Model S P85 and the HV battery went out completely. The good news is that it was still under warranty and the service center installed a new one. The new battery is even a 400V replacement (I'm not 100% but I think my old battery was 350V). The bad news is that after getting the car back it now only has a max charge of 242 miles. My old battery charged to 260 miles or so. I reset the trip counters per Tesla's instructions and went through another cycle but it's still stuck around 242 miles.

I brought the car back to Tesla and after diagnosing it they said that the 242 mile charge capacity was "within the normal tolerance" for a replacement battery and that nothing can be done to make it charge higher.

This doesn't sound right to me. How could a higher voltage battery charge lower? Anyone have this issue? What should I do?

John Young
Silver Spring, MD

 

[Rocky_H]

The new battery is even a 400V replacement (I'm not 100% but I think my old battery was 350V).

No, the 85, 90, and 100 battery sizes are all 400V. It's the 60, 70, and 75 battery sizes that are the 350V ones.

The bad news is that after getting the car back it now only has a max charge of 242 miles. My old battery charged to 260 miles or so.

Well, when brand new, the S85 and maybe P85 were 265. I thought the P85 might have been a little bit less than that, but not sure. So for a 7 year old car, you were really actually seeing 260 on a full charge? I find that a little hard to believe. I would think it would be about 250-255 at this point, absolute best case. Mid 240's I would think is pretty close to the 250 amount that your 7 year old battery would have. I have a March 2014 S85, about a year newer than yours, and mine is about mid 250's for a full charge I think. This doesn't seem much out of line.

 

[Electric700]

I have a 2013 Model S P85 and the HV battery went out completely. The good news is that it was still under warranty and the service center installed a new one. The new battery is even a 400V replacement (I'm not 100% but I think my old battery was 350V). The bad news is that after getting the car back it now only has a max charge of 242 miles. My old battery charged to 260 miles or so. I reset the trip counters per Tesla's instructions and went through another cycle but it's still stuck around 242 miles.

I brought the car back to Tesla and after diagnosing it they said that the 242 mile charge capacity was "within the normal tolerance" for a replacement battery and that nothing can be done to make it charge higher.

This doesn't sound right to me. How could a higher voltage battery charge lower? Anyone have this issue? What should I do?

John Young
Silver Spring, MD

Did they do a software update also? That might affect your range, as I understand it has been slightly reduced for safety reasons. There's now a larger charge buffer with the latest software.

If not, try a few 100% charges over the next several weeks and drive immediately after the charges complete. Check that you are using the Rated range setting, and see if the range goes up. If it doesn't, you could request another battery with equal to / greater capacity than your original one. It is about a 7% difference though so fortunately it's not a huge amount.

Also note that I would normally only charge to 100% twice a year, mainly for battery balancing purposes.

 

[johnyoung1234]

Mid 240's I would think is pretty close to the 250 amount that your 7 year old battery would have. I have a March 2014 S85, about a year newer than yours, and mine is about mid 250's for a full charge I think. This doesn't seem much out of line.

You are right. Mine would go to about 252-255 before it went out. I was just thinking that a new battery would be 'new' in the sense that it would charge to 265 or so. I actually heard a story from one owner that said his replacement battery charged to 280!

 

[Rocky_H]

My old battery charged to 260 miles or so.

I find that a little hard to believe.

Mine would go to about 252-255 before it went out.

Uh huh. If you want good answers, give accurate information.

I was just thinking that a new battery would be 'new' in the sense that it would charge to 265 or so.

They have never said that replacements would be "new". Their policy on this is that it will have approximately the same level of capacity as your old battery had at the time it needed replacing. So if it is 10-15 rated miles lower than new, that's about what you can expect from the replacement too. Anything more is a lucky bonus.

I actually heard a story from one owner that said his replacement battery charged to 280!

...if he accidentally had the setting on "ideal" miles. I know there have been some cases where people did end up with batteries that were better than what they had, but that is not the standard or to be expected.

 

[SSedan]

My 2014 P85 charges to 242 at 100%, was 257 3 years and 30k ago but updates in particular have taken a toll.

 

[johnyoung1234]

My 2014 P85 charges to 242 at 100%, was 257 3 years and 30k ago but updates in particular have taken a toll.

Just curious...why would the updates reduce the charging? Is it based on formulas/calcuations in the updates?

 

[SSedan]

Look up batterygate, Tesla reduced the maximum cell voltage a year or do ago. This is very well known to those of us with older cars.

 

[Az_Rael]

I actually heard a story from one owner that said his replacement battery charged to 280!

Some owners (maybe the P85DL cars I think) get a 90kWh battery as a replacement. Not sure what a 90 charges to, but that might explain an increase after the replacement.

 

[sorka]

They have never said that replacements would be "new". Their policy on this is that it will have approximately the same level of capacity as your old battery had at the time it needed replacing. So if it is 10-15 rated miles lower than new, that's about what you can expect from the replacement too. Anything more is a lucky bonus..

Except that 242 miles is not approximately 260 miles. If the OP can prove they were charging to 260 miles rated range, Tesla needs to replace the battery with one that has the same or better range. If it was 258 miles instead of 260, that would be one thing and pretty close. But 242 is not close to 260.

 

[SSedan]

You are right. Mine would go to about 252-255 before it went out. I was just thinking that a new battery would be 'new' in the sense that it would charge to 265 or so. I actually heard a story from one owner that said his replacement battery charged to 280!

Except that 242 miles is not approximately 260 miles. If the OP can prove they were charging to 260 miles rated range, Tesla needs to replace the battery with one that has the same or better range. If it was 258 miles instead of 260, that would be one thing and pretty close. But 242 is not close to 260.

OP admitted to overstating the degraded range some. Those of us with P85s are going to call bull on the 252mile range claim, bet the OP hadn't done a 100% in a long while and is quoting an old number. SC said I am lucky with mine seeing 242 at 100%

 

[johnyoung1234]

OP admitted to overstating the degraded range some. Those of us with P85s are going to call bull on the 252mile range claim, bet the OP hadn't done a 100% in a long while and is quoting an old number. SC said I am lucky with mine seeing 242 at 100%

Not sure what the attitude issue is here...but my car was charging to at least 252 before and I do recall a bit higher. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone. You might be a little more likable if you tone it down some.

 

[SSedan]

So I could be your friend if I don't point out that a 7yo car likely subjected to updates that lowered cell voltage would have capacity reduced more than 5%?
5% loss is 252miles remaining.
Pretty well accepted that Tesla packs degrade around 5-6% in the first few years then degradation slows.

Your statements about 260miles mad 350volts show you haven't taken a technical interest, you just enjoyed the car till now which is great.
I am not claimimg you are being deliberately deceptive or anything like that just that I think there are some rose colored glasses involved. If you charge to 100% often you are likely to see higher degradation, if you don't charge to 100% often you miss slow degradation and the effects of software updates some of which have hurt range on these older cars in the last 14months or so.
242miles is 8-9% degraded which is in line with normal for a 7yo car.

If your car had 252miles yet that would have been an outlier in a positive way and wish you had a screenshot to prove it to Tesla and leverage a better than average pack. 252 miles remaining is unbelievable without proof because it is so far off norms.

Maybe the lesson is we should be doing screen shots when we do charge to 100% just to have record to hold Tesla to on warranty claims.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

7 year old P85s do not get 260 miles of range. Tesla's warranty offers a replacement pack that is equal or better, at Tesla's discretion. Some have gotten 90 kWh packs. Others have received rebuilt 85 kWh packs. It all depends on what Tesla has on hand. It's like playing the lottery...

 

[beatle]

If your car had 252miles yet that would have been an outlier in a positive way and wish you had a screenshot to prove it to Tesla and leverage a better than average pack. 252 miles remaining is unbelievable without proof because it is so far off norms.

Maybe the lesson is we should be doing screen shots when we do charge to 100% just to have record to hold Tesla to on warranty claims.

That's a major reason why I keep my subscription to TeslaFi active. I should probably start taking screenshots of ScanMyTesla showing my battery voltage at max charge as well. These guys are absolutely not our friends.

 

[CUBldr97]

my 2013 model S claims to get 230 now at 100% charge, real world i get 175 miles, at 330 watts per mile and usable battery is less than 60kwh... and of course tesla says hey thats normal... and i dont use the SC regularly, if at all..

 

[SSedan]

330wh/m is well above rated which is I think low 290s

 

[CUBldr97]

330wh/m is well above rated which is I think low 290s

hah a 2013 RWD even doing 45 mph will never get 290/whmile maybe down hill, supposedly the rated is at 300w/mile but that has never been seen in the 6 years of owning the car

 

[SSedan]

hah a 2013 RWD even doing 45 mph will never get 290/whmile maybe down hill, supposedly the rated is at 300w/mile but that has never been seen in the 6 years of owning the car

What rubber was on the car? Tires matter, speaking in generalities the 21" rims are paired with tires with higher rolling resistance.

Most of my day to day driving is on 35-55mph roads and have no trouble stall seeing 270 in spring and fall, sometimes even in summer.

Road surface matters too, a coarse road is harder to roll on.
How are you about using regenerative braking?
There are a hundred details that matter.

I never had an ICE that got exactly window sticker mileage either.

I have a crappy old Sierra that was rated at I think 21mpg highway and am very happy if it approaches 19mpg, then again I don't have LRR tires on it.

 

[aerodyne]

That's a major reason why I keep my subscription to TeslaFi active. I should probably start taking screenshots of ScanMyTesla showing my battery voltage at max charge as well. These guys are absolutely not our friends.

And you really don't want to show your Teslafi and SMT "cards" unless you need to. I lost both contactors and they tried to blame it on the CAN bus reader.