Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Help needed planning route! (Rural Manitoba)

duvywpg

Member
Mar 10, 2020
11
10
winnipeg
My wife and I are planning on going out to see her Grandma this weekend who lives in the Winnipegosis area (about 380km Northwest of Winnipeg). I could charge to 100% at the Portage La Prairie supercharger and just barely make it to our destination. I would be able to charge using a household outlet for Friday night, saturday day/night, and Sunday morning, but I don't know if that would be enough. I also worry about using an extension cord for long periods of time, and I don't know if the mobile connector cord will be long enough.

Another option is to take the long route (adds about an hour driving time) and stop at a Level 2 chargers for multiple hours. There is a destination charger in Riding Mountain National Park, which I could stop at for awhile in order to charge up on the way there and on the way back. This might make the normal 120v outlet more feasible, but adds a good amount of time to our commute.

I tried to plan it out on ABRP, and it says it is feasible but it also looks like it is capping my speed at 75km/hr in order to make it.

The final option (that I'm leaning towards) is to just borrow a car from a family member for the weekend and not worry about it at all.

Edit to add: Model 3 SR+. I'll add the Aero covers back on for the drive.

Also I want to add a disclaimer; this doesn't really bother me. This is a drive to a remote community in northern canada and it makes sense that it is hard to plan out. My wife and I have been together for almost 6 years and this will be the 2nd time that we've gone up to visit. The car is still good for every other trip I'll ever take. I feel like that is worth mentioning because I've already gotten a lot of flack from ICE drivers about 'this is the reason why EVs will never be mainstream'. I've already taken multiple road trips since I've gotten my car and have had no range issues.
 

darkenergy

Member
Apr 13, 2018
254
212
Canada
Assuming its about 285km from Portage La Prairie to your destination, that seems possible if you drive modestly.

Recently, with our LR on highway we did ~225km starting from 90% (~450km) and leaving 100km range in the battery at the supercharger. I wasn't driving cautiously :) With Aeros and AC running.

So as long as you weren't driving super fast, it seems likely that you could make it up there.

If you can get 12A @ 120V (a 15A circuit) over about 36 hours that should net you about 45-50kW into the battery. That could get you to the park. The park quotes 16kW over two chargers so you should be able to get more than 8kW and then loop back to the SC.

But not in winter.

Any chance you could plug the car's unit into a dryer socket? That 240v would give you extra insurance. :)

Certainly a question of risk tolerance!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tessaract

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
219
245
Calgary
Plugshare lists the Super-8 in Dauphin as having a J1772 charger ($10 to charge), although the reviews suggest that it's not terribly reliable. Maybe give the hotel a call and see if it's working.

As for an extension cord, 14 gauge is fine, but I personally carry a 12 to limit voltage drop. (https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...n-cord-with-lit-fan-32-8-ft-0522471p.html#srp).

What plugs do you have the for the mobile connector? 6-20 is common for high power window/thu wall air conditioners (common at motels) and any place that does welding would have a 6-50. Sadly, the campground there only lists TT-30.

Depending on how close you can get to the oven plug, running an extension cord out the window is an option, albeit an expensive one.
https://www.amazon.ca/Conntek-15306...690384011&rps=1&sprefix=50A+rv,aps,197&sr=8-5
 

duvywpg

Member
Mar 10, 2020
11
10
winnipeg
Any chance you could plug the car's unit into a dryer socket? That 240v would give you extra insurance. :)


Plugshare lists the Super-8 in Dauphin as having a J1772 charger ($10 to charge), although the reviews suggest that it's not terribly reliable. Maybe give the hotel a call and see if it's working.

As for an extension cord, 14 gauge is fine, but I personally carry a 12 to limit voltage drop. (https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...n-cord-with-lit-fan-32-8-ft-0522471p.html#srp).

What plugs do you have the for the mobile connector? 6-20 is common for high power window/thu wall air conditioners (common at motels) and any place that does welding would have a 6-50. Sadly, the campground there only lists TT-30.

Depending on how close you can get to the oven plug, running an extension cord out the window is an option, albeit an expensive one.
https://www.amazon.ca/Conntek-15306-Rallonge-indicateur-dalimentation/dp/B00F17QD9O/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1HW2FLKYPYEPB&dchild=1&keywords=50a+rv+extension+cord&qid=1598544970&refinements=p_85:5690392011&rnid=5690384011&rps=1&sprefix=50A+rv,aps,197&sr=8-5

The only adapter I have is the included 120v and the 14-50 that I use at home. Her Grandma has an RV plug-in (i think it's 30amps), which she sent a picture of. Looks like it's a TT-30 plugin, and she has an adapter to make the receptacle look like a normal household plug instead. From my understanding this would only give 12amps continuous and wouldn't be any different from a normal outlet. Dryer is inside and not really feasible.

I saw the plug at the hotel in Dauphin on Plugshare as well; but the last check in was in February and it said out of order. Even if I called and they said it was working, I wouldn't want to rely on that.
 

Tectonic

Member
Jan 27, 2020
234
435
Colorado
Her Grandma has an RV plug-in (i think it's 30amps), which she sent a picture of. Looks like it's a TT-30 plugin, and she has an adapter to make the receptacle look like a normal household plug instead. From my understanding this would only give 12amps continuous and wouldn't be any different from a normal outlet.

If you can confirm the TT-30, this could be a great option. You can get 10+ miles of range/hr on a TT-30 (charging at 120V, 24 amps). The best way to use a TT-30 plug is to use one of these adapters (TT-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters), but you probably don't have time to get it prior to this weekend. If you can find a 14-50 to TT-30 adapter, you could manually dial down the amperage to 24 amps. Good luck!

Edit: barring the adapter linked above, you'd need to find something like this (but you have to remember to manually dial down the amperage to 24): AC WORKS EVSE Charging Adapter RV TT-30P 30 Amp Plug to 50 Amp Electric Vehicle Adapter for Tesla Model S-EVTT30MS - The Home Depot
 
Last edited:

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
219
245
Calgary
The only adapter I have is the included 120v and the 14-50 that I use at home. Her Grandma has an RV plug-in (i think it's 30amps), which she sent a picture of. Looks like it's a TT-30 plugin, and she has an adapter to make the receptacle look like a normal household plug instead.
Yeah, TT-30 dosen't do you any good unless by some wildly improbable chance the electrician who installed it only happened to have a roll of 3/8 wire in his truck that day and just taped off the extra wire.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Tessaract

IdaX

Member
Dec 27, 2016
428
523
Moscow, Idaho
If you can confirm the TT-30, this could be a great option. You can get 10+ miles of range/hr on a TT-30 (charging at 120V, 24 amps). The best way to use a TT-30 plug is to use one of these adapters (TT-30 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3/Y Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters), but you probably don't have time to get it prior to this weekend. If you can find a 14-50 to TT-30 adapter, you could manually dial down the amperage to 24 amps.
I had trouble with a TT-30 a few weeks ago -- dunno what the issue was, maybe that it didn't have the right ground or something. It worked fine for my travel trailer, but not for the car for whatever reason ("check charging equipment"). So be careful about RELYING on this until you've demonstrated its capability.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrElbe

bpjod

Supporting Member
Nov 5, 2016
468
2,391
Alberta, Canada
I do trips like this all the time. Here’s how I’d do it:
  • From Portage La Prairie to Winnipegosis is 284 km.
  • The SR+ battery is 50 kWh capacity.
  • To cover that distance, you want to do it on 45 kWh, leaving a 5 kWh reserve, just in case (detour, headwind, battery degradation, etc.).
  • 45,000 Wh / 284 km = 158.45 Wh/km. That’s do-able, but it’s pretty tight.
Leave Portage with a 100% charge. Have a trip computer displayed (bottom left of screen, trip computer) showing Wh/km since last charge and keep a close eye on that to ensure you’re maintaining your average below 158 Wh/km. Leave the Energy graph up flipping between the two tabs to further monitor consumption. Start the drive with TACC set to 90 kph. Slow down further if needed but don’t speed up past this until you’re extremely confident you’ve got plenty of battery power in reserve to make your destination. Experiment with drafting if you get an opportunity (and you’re comfortable doing so). I’ve had great luck following dump trucks, semis, motor homes and the like with autopilot set to 2 and going at a pretty good pace.

Dauphin looks to be your only L2 option in case things go wrong, so call them (or check recent entries on PlugShare) to ensure the charger is working before you go.

As for charging to get back home, 50,000 Wh / (120 V x 12 A) = 35 hours to fully charge the battery from 0% to 100% which is a day and a half, so that shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re using an extension cord make it as short as possible and 12 gauge (or better yet 10 gauge) to minimize both energy loss and fire risk.

Have fun!
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Pescakl1 and IdaX

ccudmore

Member
Jul 5, 2019
237
390
Ottawa
Being rural Manitoba, I wouldn't be surprised if you ask around some neighbour has a welder outlet (NEMA 6-50) that they've forgotten about but still works. I've used those before and they worked like a charm.
 

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
219
245
Calgary
As for charging to get back home, 50,000 Wh / (120 V x 12 A) = 35 hours to fully charge the battery from 0% to 100% which is a day and a half, so that shouldn’t be a problem. If you’re using an extension cord make it as short as possible and 12 gauge (or better yet 10 gauge) to minimize both energy loss and fire risk.

Have fun!
120V charging has horrific AC-DC efficiency, so your numbers are way off. I think the pack is also 54kW on the SR+
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,095
Vernon, BC, Canada
Since the numbers are pretty tight, I want to make a few more accurate calculations here (at the risk of being too technical). The below assumes net zero elevation change, and that's basically true.

The SR+ usable capacity, when new, is about 50.1kWh. You almost certainly have degradation since then (not sure what year etc.) so let's say you have 47.0kWh usable.

If I take the 2020 model efficiency, it's rated for about 124.6Wh/km. To cover the 282km from the Supercharger to your destination, that requires about 35.1kWh. That leaves about 25% for you to play with, which is plenty for comfort. Something like charging to only 90% (saves time, since the last 10% is slow) and arriving with 15%.

I'm not sure what the roads are like there. I can get 132Wh/km (mine is rated higher at 145Wh/km, because AWD) on mine even at 110km/h with the AC on or windows cracked open a bit. If you need to turn on the heater for a significant chunk of the trip, this won't work.

The biggest question is if that ~125Wh/km figure is achievable in your experience, as each person and car varies a bit.

---

As for charging, lets say you arrived with 10% (4.7kWh). To get to 100%, you then need to dump in 42.3kWh.

With an extension cord you'll have extra voltage drop, so the below voltage is a guess. The below formula works well for me at various charging levels:

Net Power = (Voltage x Amps x 0.94) - 300W
Net Power = (108V x 12A x 0.94) - 300W = About 920W
Recovering 42300Wh (42.3kWh) with 920W would take 46h. Add one extra hour to finish that last little bit in reality. So 47h to get to 100% from 10% on that setup. Hmm, not quite going to do it. You have about 36h to work with. So you can expect to get 37820Wh (37.8kWh), or in other words about 80.3%. This is cutting it really, really close - as above, you need about 75% between Winnipegosis and the Supercharger. Try to arrive with more than 10% so you can leave with more than 80%. If you can't swing that, start figuring out how to incorporate L2 charging and/or work the Brandon Supercharger into your plan.

That making a huge assumption that the battery is warm enough during that time. If temps dip below 10C, you technically might have an issue. Realistically it'll need to be around 0C before you'd notice. If it's going to be cold, that changes the math for the whole trip though, not just the charging part.
 

bpjod

Supporting Member
Nov 5, 2016
468
2,391
Alberta, Canada
Mine’s a LR RWD so I’m not certain of the capacity of the SR+ battery. 4 extra kWh makes the trip even easier.

Oops, forgot about the losses for BMS and efficiency loss etc. when charging. Good of you to point that out. Hard to find good numbers, likely because it’s also temperature dependent. Should probably add 30% more time for charging due to these losses. That bumps charging time for 50 kWh to 45 hours. Nearly two full days which looks like more time than @duvywpg was planning on spending there. Arriving Friday for supper and leaving Sunday after lunch would do the trick, not sure how flexible the travel plans are.

We regularly go to my mother’s cabin arriving late Friday night and leaving Sunday after lunch without any problem. The trip uses about 80% of our LR RWD battery. However we charge with a TT-30 adapter which is more than twice as fast as 120V/15A because the BMS needs are already looked after and most of the extra 12 amps goes directly to the battery. I highly recommend picking up the adapter if you do this trip with any regularity.
 

duvywpg

Member
Mar 10, 2020
11
10
winnipeg
Since the numbers are pretty tight, I want to make a few more accurate calculations here (at the risk of being too technical). The below assumes net zero elevation change, and that's basically true.

The SR+ usable capacity, when new, is about 50.1kWh. You almost certainly have degradation since then (not sure what year etc.) so let's say you have 47.0kWh usable.

If I take the 2020 model efficiency, it's rated for about 124.6Wh/km. To cover the 282km from the Supercharger to your destination, that requires about 35.1kWh. That leaves about 25% for you to play with, which is plenty for comfort. Something like charging to only 90% (saves time, since the last 10% is slow) and arriving with 15%.

I'm not sure what the roads are like there. I can get 132Wh/km (mine is rated higher at 145Wh/km, because AWD) on mine even at 110km/h with the AC on or windows cracked open a bit. If you need to turn on the heater for a significant chunk of the trip, this won't work.

The biggest question is if that ~125Wh/km figure is achievable in your experience, as each person and car varies a bit.

---

As for charging, lets say you arrived with 10% (4.7kWh). To get to 100%, you then need to dump in 42.3kWh.

With an extension cord you'll have extra voltage drop, so the below voltage is a guess. The below formula works well for me at various charging levels:

Net Power = (Voltage x Amps x 0.94) - 300W
Net Power = (108V x 12A x 0.94) - 300W = About 920W
Recovering 42300Wh (42.3kWh) with 920W would take 46h. Add one extra hour to finish that last little bit in reality. So 47h to get to 100% from 10% on that setup. Hmm, not quite going to do it. You have about 36h to work with. So you can expect to get 37820Wh (37.8kWh), or in other words about 80.3%. This is cutting it really, really close - as above, you need about 75% between Winnipegosis and the Supercharger. Try to arrive with more than 10% so you can leave with more than 80%. If you can't swing that, start figuring out how to incorporate L2 charging and/or work the Brandon Supercharger into your plan.

That making a huge assumption that the battery is warm enough during that time. If temps dip below 10C, you technically might have an issue. Realistically it'll need to be around 0C before you'd notice. If it's going to be cold, that changes the math for the whole trip though, not just the charging part.

First off; thank you for this amazing and detailed response, I genuinely appreciate it.

I'm pretty sure I hover around 150kw/km on highway efficiency, but that's without the aero covers, which im going to put back on in the morning before I leave. I've decided to do the trip in the Tesla. I am going to take a route that will take me through Riding Mountain National Park which has a destination charger, I might not NEED to stop there, but it only adds like 20km to the trip and then I know for sure that we can charge up if we need to. Even if it's only for an hour, it will give us a decent cushion for the trip there and back.
 

Tessaract

Member
Aug 12, 2019
337
324
Ottawa
Yeah, TT-30 dosen't do you any good unless by some wildly improbable chance the electrician who installed it only happened to have a roll of 3/8 wire in his truck that day and just taped off the extra wire.
The TT-30 is rated for 30A @ 120V, in comparison to a 5-15 (15 A @ 120V) or 5-20 (20A @ 120V). So the TT-30 certainly increases charging rate, but still much less than using a 240V connection through a dryer or stove receptacle.

I would highly recommend a 14-50/14-30 extension cord. Mine has come in very handy. Ands stove/dryer receptacles are found everywhere. Even in cottage country.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: IdaX

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
219
245
Calgary
The TT-30 is rated for 30A @ 120V, in comparison to a 5-15 (15 A @ 120V) or 5-20 (20A @ 120V). So the TT-30 certainly increases charging rate, but still much less than using a 240V connection through a dryer or stove receptacle.
The OP is driving today and dosen't have a TT-30, hence why I said the plug is of no use to him.
I just plugged in my M3 and current limited down to 8A @244v, which is the same wattage as you could get from a 5-20 and I'm charging at 12km/h, nearly double what Tesla lists the 6-20 as (4mph = 6.44km/h). Assuming 120V charging scales linearly, you're getting ~10km/h on your TT-30 adapter? You'd be better off with one of those hack boxes that plugs in two 5-15's on opposite sides of the phase split and turns it into a 6-15.
 

Tessaract

Member
Aug 12, 2019
337
324
Ottawa
The OP is driving today and dosen't have a TT-30, hence why I said the plug is of no use to him.
I just plugged in my M3 and current limited down to 8A @244v, which is the same wattage as you could get from a 5-20 and I'm charging at 12km/h, nearly double what Tesla lists the 6-20 as (4mph = 6.44km/h). Assuming 120V charging scales linearly, you're getting ~10km/h on your TT-30 adapter? You'd be better off with one of those hack boxes that plugs in two 5-15's on opposite sides of the phase split and turns it into a 6-15.

Yes. A time constraint is certainly a consideration.

However, I've used a TT-30 connection with a M3LR and drawn 24A @120v. Certainly twice the power of [email protected]

However, 120V conversion is not as efficient as 240V conversion with the Tesla on board charger. That's why the same power at 120V will result slower charging.
 
Last edited:

Tectonic

Member
Jan 27, 2020
234
435
Colorado
The OP is driving today and dosen't have a TT-30, hence why I said the plug is of no use to him.
I just plugged in my M3 and current limited down to 8A @244v, which is the same wattage as you could get from a 5-20 and I'm charging at 12km/h, nearly double what Tesla lists the 6-20 as (4mph = 6.44km/h). Assuming 120V charging scales linearly, you're getting ~10km/h on your TT-30 adapter? You'd be better off with one of those hack boxes that plugs in two 5-15's on opposite sides of the phase split and turns it into a 6-15.

You shouldn't trust the Tesla chart for these type of calculations. E.g. I get 5 mi/hr range (not 3 mi/hr of the Tesla chart) for charging an SR+ on 5-15 at 12 amps...
 

pb2000

Member
Dec 22, 2019
219
245
Calgary
You shouldn't trust the Tesla chart for these type of calculations. E.g. I get 5 mi/hr range (not 3 mi/hr of the Tesla chart) for charging an SR+ on 5-15 at 12 amps...
Must be the worst case scenario Tesla lists. I just tried 12A on a very short 20A 120V circuit (About 15ft of 12awg romex from panel and 20ft of 12awg extension cord) and got 8-9km/h (5-5.6mph). My open circuit voltage is on the higher side of normal at 123.5V but I'm not sure how much difference that makes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tectonic

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top