Help saving a friend from buying a Porsche Taycan in Raleigh, NC

[HankLloydRight]

They even told him he could get the rebate, which I think is bull.

If you’re talking about the US EV tax credit, if the car is a real dealer demo that hasn’t been sold/titled yet, yes it still qualifies for the $7,500 tax credit. I bought my P85+ as a demo car with 8k miles on it and still got the tax credit.

 

[onesixeight]

Very thoughtful responses! I have a Plaid but also have a Taycan Cross Turismo on order.

Plaid is an impressive car but I seriously don't think a single stranger test drive is the right way to decide what car to buy.

If he has 350kw EA chargers in his area, he is gonna be better off with the Taycan. Free EA charging sessions (even on used Taycan) and better charging curve in my opinion. Sure lots of issues with EA but he's probably gonna save money buying the Taycan.

And depreciation, the Model S historically hasn't been great and I don't expect the Plaid to change that. Taycan is bringing near MSRP values at auction and see them both depreciating similarly in 3 years time

 

[dduffey]

I don't get your point

I've given lots of strangers a ride in my cars and have let friends drive my cars.

I have not let strangers or stranger's friends drive my car. (Well I have in college and regretted it).

You have the Tesla experience to share with your friend. Convince him to test drive one at a used car dealership, he is intending to buy a high performance EV, not some random forum member's car.

 

[avoigt]

A friend is looking buy a Porsche Taycan 4S in Raleigh, NC from Porsche Southpoint.

He is going to drop $124k for a loaner 4S, 12.5k miles, 25 month warranty left.
Battery has 93kw, 227 mile EPA at best when new.
3.8 sec 0-60.
They even told him he could get the rebate, which I think is bull.

Any way, I need to convince him to order the Plaid, ASAP.

Can someone in Raliegh- Durham, please, let him drive the plaid and save a soul.

Please drop me a text or call.
Pinny
321-3636757

You may want to give your friend my latest article

Porsche Whistleblower: “60% of all delivered Taycan have battery issues that caused replacements, damages and fires”

“Six out of ten Porsche Taycan” ever delivered have a problem with battery management that affects and damages battery cells, requires replacement of cells and batteries, and is causing vehicle fires, according to a source working at Porsche’s headquarters in Zuffenhausen, Germany. Porsche is...

www.teslarati.com

 

[CapeOne]

They even told him he could get the rebate, which I think is bull.

If it's a new/untitled car, it should qualify for the $7,500 EV tax credit. Your friend will want to confirm that it's still on MSO and hasn’t been titled.

Can someone in Raliegh- Durham, please, let him drive the plaid and save a soul.

Porsche Southpoint lists a used MS Plaid for sale on their website. Your friend can test drive it there and compare the two cars.

The Lexus dealer nearby (Johnson Lexus) also lists a used MS Plaid on their website. That's two places he can test drive the MS Plaid.

 

[ArchEtech]

^^^^well there you go!

 

[orlando-model-s]

These kinds of threads, in any kind of forum always crack me up.

OP: Hey I need help with this what do you think?

Posters: Well we think you’re asking the wrong question.

Some other posters: We think you’re wrong.

OP: Hey can you just give me the answer that I want and nothing else? I don’t need any tangent, like anyone would normally have in an actual, casual, conversation, just agree with me and give me the answer that I want to hear.

LOL deep breaths.

You asked people to help convince your “friend” to get a Plaid, and share their car for a test drive. You could have just left the rest out about the Porsche and convincing and just said:

“Hey does anyone have a Plaid in North or South Carolina that would be willing to let a friend and I check out this car, maybe test drive it before they order?”

Short, sweet, and to the point. No back story, No discussion on what the Plaid is going to be used for, or that it’s being cross shopped.

You didn’t however ask it that way did you. You had to bring Porsche into it, and later the fact it will be used for driving 300 miles every day, so you’re going to run the risk of getting additional feedback.

I would say it’s good feedback about picking the right tool for the job and helping your “friend” make the right decision, weigh all options, something you probably should be doing for this “friend” if he or she is a “friend.” That way they don’t regret making a $140,000 purchase.

This is exactly the kind of feedback you want from a Tesla forum. Honest, thought out, level headed non fan boy bias.

Is a Plaid or a Taycan really the best car for a 300 mile per day commuter? Mmmmm my option is no. Sorry.

Hey, thank you a lot for the time you put to analyze this "ridiculous" situation, my "Friend".

I did not ask "What do you think"?
I merely requested for an owner in Raleigh to let a "Friend" test the car.
Could not be more clearer then that.

I did give some background too increase the "Urgency", and I am sorry I hurt some feelings in the process, I do.

Interestingly, you described the response as...
Some people answer, "you are asking the wrong question".
I don't remember asking any question, and what kind of condescending response is that any way.

"Some are saying: You are wrong", when all I wanted is help my "Friend", make an educated decision.

"All I want is people to agree and give me the right answer", again, no question asked, no answer needed.

I do get your point, indeed, if I phrased my request clean of backstory, I would not have hurt some feelings and cause such reaction. Point taken.

But...

Should I not expect some responses offering help in the matter?

Should I expect some responses wanting to offer help, but are too far?

I could possibly expect some big sophisticated thinkers and bored members to share some off topic remarks, but not all of them.

I guess, if all responses think Taycan is a better car for any purpose, they must be right.

This is a democracy after all.

Oh, and I love this "plaid is not for daily driving and has a lot of problems".
Sounds a lot like the early model S critics back in 2012-13.

Yes, maybe in some of you guys world, if someone buys a 5 seat sedan daily driver for $124k, then, he should not think too much before he buys, just follow your Teenage dreams, since he must have a lot of money to spend correcting a $124k problem.

Hey, anyway, there is no automobile depreciation right now, so who cares, oh and no inflation too, and GM is the world EV leader...
Life must be good to every one if we are so lucky.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[orlando-model-s]

If it's a new/untitled car, it should qualify for the $7,500 EV tax credit. Your friend will want to confirm that it's still on MSO and hasn’t been titled.






Porsche Southpoint lists a used MS Plaid for sale on their website. Your friend can test drive it there and compare the two cars.

The Lexus dealer nearby (Johnson Lexus) also lists a used MS Plaid on their website. That's two places he can test drive the MS Plaid.

Thank you, very helpful, I appreciate it.

 

[orlando-model-s]

Thank you, very helpful, I appreciate it.

Thank you, that makes sense, I will tell him to ask.

 

[BeyondFast]

I daily drive my Plaid. Approximately 122 miles per day, 5 days a week. I charge it at home and leave each morning with 90% soc. I drive it in sport mode and drive it like a performance vehicle. I do not drive in Chill mode and rarely drive it in Plaid mode. After 61 miles of driving I plug in at work at 65% soc. It is late fall in Indiana and I do run the heaters at 70F.
My guess is I will get 250 miles from a full charge.
The air ride suspension is comfortable over rough roads and the car handles very well at both low and high speeds. It is very quiet at highway speeds and I am comparing this to my Cadillac.
It took me 1000 miles to get used to the yoke and all of its buttons. That will be a huge deterrent for anyone test driving the Plaid.
I would buy the Plaid again knowing what I know.

 

[orlando-model-s]

I daily drive my Plaid. Approximately 122 miles per day, 5 days a week. I charge it at home and leave each morning with 90% soc. I drive it in sport mode and drive it like a performance vehicle. I do not drive in Chill mode and rarely drive it in Plaid mode. After 61 miles of driving I plug in at work at 65% soc. It is late fall in Indiana and I do run the heaters at 70F.
My guess is I will get 250 miles from a full charge.
The air ride suspension is comfortable over rough roads and the car handles very well at both low and high speeds. It is very quiet at highway speeds and I am comparing this to my Cadillac.
It took me 1000 miles to get used to the yoke and all of its buttons. That will be a huge deterrent for anyone test driving the Plaid.
I would buy the Plaid again knowing what I know.

Thx for sharing, nothing like personal detailed experience to build up an opinion.

 

[ucmndd]

That Taycan has a little bit more range than 227, that Porsche are great cars, that Tesla will have problems, will depreciate faster, that 396 is probably 370

270 would be much much closer to reality than 370.

Tesla’s range numbers are bordering on fraud.

 

[orlando-model-s]

270 would be much much closer to reality than 370.

Tesla’s range numbers are bordering on fraud.

Appreciate your opinion. How do you explain though, they are EPA approved?
Is Tesla in bed with EPA?
It is hard to assume that Tesla is receiving preferred, unsubstantiated rating.

The cars are independently tested.

I do understand that some personal experience and many unflattering publications show a gloomy picture.

I am just struggling to explain this.

Did Tesla manage to invent a diesel gate style software that cheats the EPA tests?

Seriously asking for a "friend". No, really.

How do you explain this?
Leaving out conspiracy and bias.

 

[ucmndd]

Appreciate your opinion. How do you explain though, they are EPA approved?
Is Tesla in bed with EPA?
It is hard to assume that Tesla is receiving preferred, unsubstantiated rating.

The cars are independently tested.

I do understand that some personal experience and many unflattering publications show a gloomy picture.

I am just struggling to explain this.

Did Tesla manage to invent a diesel gate style software that cheats the EPA tests?

Seriously asking for a "friend". No, really.

How do you explain this?
Leaving out conspiracy and bias.

This explains the situation well. Note that it’s currently perfectly legal, but leads to wildly divergent and unrealistic results.

The Secret Adjustment Factor Tesla Uses to Get Its Big EPA Range Numbers

How Tesla puts distance between itself and the competition while still playing by the EPA's rules.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Appreciate your opinion. How do you explain though, they are EPA approved?
Is Tesla in bed with EPA?
It is hard to assume that Tesla is receiving preferred, unsubstantiated rating.

The cars are independently tested.

I do understand that some personal experience and many unflattering publications show a gloomy picture.

I am just struggling to explain this.

Did Tesla manage to invent a diesel gate style software that cheats the EPA tests?

Seriously asking for a "friend". No, really.

How do you explain this?
Leaving out conspiracy and bias.

I don't know what the average speed of the EPA test is, but as I recall, the average speed of the WLTP test that is used in Sweden/Europe where I live, is ~46,5 km/h... Perhaps that can explain things... But... I could remember incorrectly so I recommend you double check this for yourself...

 

[ucmndd]

Here’s another good resource, unbiased testing under the same conditions shows the actual range difference between a Plaid and a Taycan 4S is only ~20 miles.

Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds

Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.

www.edmunds.com

 

[AndreP]

There's nothing *wrong* with the way Tesla cites their vehicle ranges according to the rules, you just won't hit them in reality. The other automakers lean more on the conservative side to provide a bare minimum that is generally exceeded in reality.

 

[ucmndd]

There's nothing *wrong* with the way Tesla cites their vehicle ranges according to the rules, you just won't hit them in reality. The other automakers lean more on the conservative side to provide a bare minimum that is generally exceeded in reality.

I guess I see “not against the rules” and “nothing wrong” as not really the same thing.

Tesla has decided it’s an acceptable business practice to deliberately deceive their own customers so long as it gives them a perceived competitive advantage in the marketplace. Nearly every other automaker has decided that’s not in their best interest.

But I suppose that’s the difference between Tesla and most other automakers in a nutshell.

 

[orlando-model-s]

I don't know what the average speed of the EPA test is, but as I recall, the average speed of the WLTP test that is used in Sweden/Europe where I live, is ~46,5 km/h... Perhaps that can explain things... But... I could remember incorrectly so I recommend you double check this for yourself...

The problem is...
They use what ever method on both cars and all other cars equally.
So, I guess your might be suggesting that at 47 mph, the Plaid is indeed 396 and the Porsche 227, but at 70 mph, the Porsche looses efficiency less significantly then Tesla?
Any way, in that case, the problem lies with EPA distorted methods, not with Tesla fraud.

It is like saying that It's GM fault that Biden crowned them the world leader in EV.

Maybe he was referring to the EV1 which indeed preceded the Roadster, nearly 10 years, which validates the GM leadership conclusion in some distorted way.

Sorry, got distracted there a bit, didn't I.

 

[orlando-model-s]

I guess I see “not against the rules” and “nothing wrong” as not really the same thing.

Tesla has decided it’s an acceptable business practice to deliberately deceive their own customers so long as it gives them a perceived competitive advantage in the marketplace. Nearly every other automaker has decided that’s not in their best interest.

But I suppose that’s the difference between Tesla and most other automakers in a nutshell.

It still doesn't explain, how an independent, non biased government body determines the EPA rate as it does.

Does anyone know how EPA works?
Do they accept company figure and approve it untested? Do they take it for a drive under fixed criterias, equally applied to all brands?
I Would think the latter.

When Audi E Tron quoted 250 or so and EPA announced 204, what is the story with that?
Can someone please explain how EPA determines range.

I hate arguing without facts.

What is the purpose of EPA or any measure, if it is not applied equally and logically.