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Help! Where are the savings?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by DewyCheatem&Howe, Jul 12, 2014.

  1. DewyCheatem&Howe

    DewyCheatem&Howe New Member

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    I am a prospective buyer and still looking for answers. Your help is appreciated!

    We have a Ford Fusion Hybrid and buy $700 of gas a year. The Tesla website calculated my potential energy cost, found we would spend an equal amount on electricity ($2 per day, do not have solar.) So there is no savings if we buy a MS 85. Granted we could use Supercharging on road trips but at home it’s a wash. Did I figure this wrong?
    :cursing:
     
  2. TES-E

    TES-E Member

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    Is the Fusion a plug-in hybrid? What is your electric cost for the Fusion? You have to count that along with the gas to get your total cost. Then compare that to the Tesla.
     
  3. RandyS

    RandyS Fan of Elon

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    In my opinion, you can't compare a Ford Fusion Hybrid that uses $700 of gas per year with a Tesla Model S and come out with an overall favorable "Cost savings" calculation that is going to convince you to buy a Model S based only on the savings.

    There are some savings, but the car is 2.5x to 3x more expensive. The tires are more expensive, the maintenance may be more expensive, etc. The Model S is in a completely different class than the Ford Fusion hybrid...
     
  4. James Anders

    James Anders Member

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    Compare the MS to a BMW M5, not a Fusion.
     
  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Have you driven a Model S yet?
     
  6. Jeddi

    Jeddi Member

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    Yeah at this point it's not going to save you a ton of money. You have to drive a MS and see if it's worth it.
     
  7. linkster

    linkster Member

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    #7 linkster, Jul 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
    Yes you did IMHO.. I would submit that you will realize a much higher cost savings with this Columbia Par Car, Model Summit NEV (neighborhood electric vehicle) that is street legal but does require state registration and license tags. The upfront costs are significantly less, requires no gasoline, and the opportunity cost is greatly minimized. This NEV doesn't accelerate nor corner as well as the Model S but it does have a much tighter turning radius and it is a joy to parallel park.
     

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  8. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

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    To the OP: If that's perhaps the name of the law firm you work for, I'm sure you could figure out a way to write it off as a business expense... :wink:
     
  9. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    link,

    I'm not buying unless the seats and cup holders are up to snuff.

    No holders, no way!
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    You drive about 7000 miles a year?
    At that low mileage, you won't make up the money on gas savings.
    Why do you have a hybrid at all though?
    The Fusion costs about $3500 less than the fusion hybrid.
    You would use about 100 gallons more a year, or about $400 more dollars.
    On straight financial numbers, you will make up that difference in about 9 years.

    If you are using less gas for other reasons, such as emitting less CO2, saving soldier's lives, reducing our trade deficit, etc, fantastic!
    Those still apply.

    If you bought the hybrid because of tech and other comforts the hybrid version has over the non-hybrid, those apply to the Model S choice as well, in spades.
     
  11. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Then I think:
    Step 1: work on improving the energy efficiency of your home in order to lower your electricity use
    Step 2: add solar power to offset your electricity use plus another 233kWh/mo
    Step 3: figure out if you can afford a Model S or should wait for the Gen 3.
     
  12. muleferg

    muleferg Member

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    The Model S is 0CO2 free. The Hybrid is not
    I purchased this for my wife. Burns calorie's and electricity. She is now polluting less not driving her Ford Flex.
    Unless there is a Flatus issue
    HeHaw, HeHaw


    aurora-black-4.jpg IMG_1288.JPG
     
  13. karmamule

    karmamule Member

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    If you put in 200 miles at a cost of .12 per kwh into Tesla's tool you get a cost of a little under $8. How many gallons would it take your Fusion to drive 200 miles? What's the average cost per gallon you estimate?

    Being optimistic and using the highway estimate for the Fusion Hybrid of 44 mpg then 200 miles would use about 4.5 gallons. If gas costs you $3.50 per gallon then that works out to 15.75, so the Tesla's energy cost seems significantly cheaper.

    How does it work out when you put in your actual electricity costs, mpg, and cost per gallon?
     
  14. bsbomber

    bsbomber Member

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    #14 bsbomber, Jul 13, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014

    If you are in a serious accident, the Tesla Model S can "save" your life (and your loved ones as well). I am baffled that it seems like everybody thinks that it could not happen to them...and yet there are major crashes all of the time where people are hurt and/or killed.

    The Tesla Model S was designed from the beginning to be the safest car ever built by leaps and bounds. With its low center of gravity and major crumple zones, I will never transport my family in anything else.

    So, how much do you value something that might "save" your life? I can't put a $$$$ on safety... that is why I fly a centerline thrust Twin Cessna Skymaster and drive a Tesla Model S.
     
  15. Ssssly

    Ssssly Member

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    You have to consider more variables when comparing BEV's to other vehicles and most are using TCO (Total Cost of Ownership).

    Here's a link to a spreadsheet I've developed. I updated with a Ford Fusion input for comparison, but you may need to adjust based on your particulars.

    My observation based on working through various iterations is that the S85 with typical options will compare favorably to a BMW 530, Mercedes E class, or Audi 6 series. This is the main segment that the Model S competes with, so as others have stated, you're unlikely to see savings from your Fusion as you're not making a equal comparison.

    Another observation from this spreadsheet is that the Model S (and I assume all electric cars) is more economical the more it is driven, while ICE's are the opposite. One can test this by changing only the annual miles in the spreadsheet.
     
  16. Pilot_51

    Pilot_51 Member

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    If cost of ownership is your concern, and considering how little you drive (roughly 9000 miles/year based on $700/year, $3.50/gal, 44mpg), then you should probably be looking at the MS60. It still has plenty of range to hop between superchargers and the 0-60 is 2-3 seconds quicker than the Fusion Hybrid. The more you drive, the faster you realize the savings of a pure EV. I don't know what your electricity rate is, but at my rate of $0.12/kWh, I calculated the cost to be around $370 for 9000 miles at 300Wh/mile and 85% charging efficiency. I think it's safe to say that you won't make up the cost of Model S on savings alone over the life of the car at your current yearly mileage and gas prices. If there are other factors affecting your choice, as would be expected with a Tesla and hinted by your considering the MS85, please let us know so we can better help you.
     
  17. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Something to consider is that the cheapest way to live is in a one room furnished apartment, eat canned beans, and ride the bus. However, life's about more than that (I hope) and the Model S is really a great car that is not as expensive as others in the same class. Yes, it will be more expensive that drive a Prius or Fusion--it will also be a lot more fun and much safer. And it's nice to know that a fill-up isn't going to be buying a gun and/or ammunition for the U.S.'s enemies to shoot at our kids with the way a tank full of gas does.
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    As pointed out, if this is about the money, then stop looking at a Model S...you'll never be able to justify it. As someone else pointed out, if you're spending only $700/yr at approximately 35mpg and $3.50/gallon you're only driving 7000 miles per year. That's around 2300kW of electricity per year in a Model S, or 6.4kW/day. I know electricity cost in California are higher than where I live, but even at $0.20/kW you are only looking at around $1.20/day. So your fuel cost would still be around half. Not sure where your calculations come from.

    In any case, I applaud you for chosing a hybrid, the hybrid fusion is a good vehicle and if you only drive 7000 miles per annum you should be able to stay in that car for many years and make minimal environmental impact and save quite a lot over any new vehicle.
     
  19. Pilot_51

    Pilot_51 Member

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    If Model S or any other pure EV doesn't cut it for you, but you still want a more efficient car, you may want to consider a plug-in hybrid. I wouldn't recommend any car that you can't plug in, because otherwise it's still completely powered by gas and any EV mode is powered by captured waste energy. Most of the benefit of plug-in hybrids is realized when you drive within the range of the battery (roughly 30 miles) and don't push it so hard that the engine kicks in, so you may be able to drive it much like a pure EV without the large upfront cost. My dad has and likes the Ford C-Max Energi, plus there is the Ford Fusion Energi and similar offerings from other brands.
     
  20. Idbvideo

    Idbvideo Member

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    The man math is quite simple, buy the Model S and sell the Fusion.

    Me? I'm a Brit. I have never wanted a US vehicle .....EVER .... until I heard of Tesla. Unless I win on the UK lottery (or get lucky or both) I can only hope for a Gen III. Sorry Jaguar....

    The weird thing is (and call me a freak if you wanna) I want one for the impact on the environment and not the savings..... Just get one, they are the bees knees......
     

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