Sorry Dave, but how dare you bring reasonable and well argued sentiments like that to the discussion? Makes people like me seem even more frothy mouthed and Daily Expressish than I usually do!
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[UK] Help with legal case against Tesla over USS
- Thread starter RafP
- Start date
- I have to save all my arguing / dealing with unreasonable behaviour for my 8 year old and the many reasons she doesn't want to do things 
MrBadger
Badger out
I didn’t realise that your Tesla was that old… thought you had a M3
Cardo
Active Member
I have a handful of Tesla shares, however I’m still quite interested in these legal actions (this USS one and the FSD one). Whilst I’d rather my stock holdings didn’t lose value due to negative publicity/etc., I do feel Tesla isn’t behaving in the best way possible in some of these aspects so I’m interested to see if the courts can make a difference.
In relation to the dislikes, I have noticed this appears to be a very American behaviour. We Brits tend to congratulate things we like, however mutter to ourselves when we’re displeased by something. Certainly, I feel embarrassed to use the dislike button so very rarely use this.
It is not dislike button - I think that is what people think - it is just ‘Disagree’.
I think if someone thinks the AHB, or USS issues are something very important and need to voice that, I guess there may be reasons for others to ‘disagree’ with those views and the freedom of expression is important across all domains NOT only where it is convenient and pragmatic. I wouldn’t stereotype this as American behaviour, in fact I am really offended - I am not an American and I am a Brit.
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Have to say I agree. It takes a pretty extreme, antagonistic view for me to click "Disagree", even if that's the intent of the button. Others are quite "disagree" happy, and seem to use it as a stick to beat people with.
I think what alters it for me is if I click "Like" on someone's post it's because I agree with all or much of what they've said, and instead of posting a low value reply that just says "well said" or "+1" or whatever I just click "Like" instead. If I disagree with someone I'd rather reply and say why, rather than doing a flyby "Disagree" click.
Different strokes for different folks though.
It is not always helpful to explain why in an online forum where you disagree with someone virtually - this leads to more and more inflamatory posts and moderators closing the thread. Sometime it is helpful to disagree and move on!
We'll have to agree to disagree
I can argue my point of view rationally even if someone else has an opposing view.
I feel pretty strongly about the ultrasonics side of things (as you've probably noticed) even though I'm not impacted - my car has them (for now). I have no skin in the game but am irritated about how it has all played out. USS removal was announced at the start of October and we're in March - 6 months on - with no replacement system in sight. No ETA, no updates, nothing. I think that's a shambles, but others don't and the refrain seems to be "I can park fine, I've got eyes" which misses the point entirely.
You're probably right on this particular matter in so much as the positions are so entrenched that one side isn't going to convince the other.
I would say - as was expressed elsewhere but I can't find the post now - that I think views on this and other subjects are tainted by whether or not someone has shares in Tesla. I don't think that negative viewpoints are approached with objectivity when people perceive that way of thinking as being damaging to their portfolio. if Tesla were a private company and people only had their cars to think about perhaps viewpoints might be more aligned. Full disclosure: I have a reasonable amount of Tesla shares, but I'm not going to pretend that the USS situation is anything other than a shambles.
I can argue my point of view rationally even if someone else has an opposing view.
I feel pretty strongly about the ultrasonics side of things (as you've probably noticed) even though I'm not impacted - my car has them (for now). I have no skin in the game but am irritated about how it has all played out. USS removal was announced at the start of October and we're in March - 6 months on - with no replacement system in sight. No ETA, no updates, nothing. I think that's a shambles, but others don't and the refrain seems to be "I can park fine, I've got eyes" which misses the point entirely.
You're probably right on this particular matter in so much as the positions are so entrenched that one side isn't going to convince the other.
I would say - as was expressed elsewhere but I can't find the post now - that I think views on this and other subjects are tainted by whether or not someone has shares in Tesla. I don't think that negative viewpoints are approached with objectivity when people perceive that way of thinking as being damaging to their portfolio. if Tesla were a private company and people only had their cars to think about perhaps viewpoints might be more aligned. Full disclosure: I have a reasonable amount of Tesla shares, but I'm not going to pretend that the USS situation is anything other than a shambles.
MrBadger
Badger out
As someone who who regularly comments on 'negativity' on the forum, do you not think that you are simply adding to it by disagreeing with other peoples opinions? Everyone has different opinions to others. Every post would be full of disagrees if everyone took the attitude of disagreeing with anything they disagreed with. A like and a disagree are not opposites of equal weight. A like is a friendly agreement, but a disagree seen as far from friendly and/or incredibly negative by many.
Are we not all on the same journey here? Rather than kicking someone who is having a problem when they are down, or (not aimed at you), trolling, is it not just best to say nothing at all? Or even better, offer a bit of support even if you do not agree with the position that they are in from your perspective.
I'm with @Durzel, imho a disagree should be accompanied with a statement as to why, otherwise its simply a difference of opinion that is simply a part of everyday life. At least when accompanied with follow on comment, or simply, just a comment, then there is some context to the difference of opinions.
When I was a moderator, there was a discussion about disagrees. Quite a few posters use it to weaponize arguments. Unfortunately my/Durzels 'accompany with a statement' was not taken on, but at least the disagree button no longer counts towards the posters score so you are no longer penalised for someone openly having a different opinion to you. As for weaponizing disagrees, gratuitous use of the disagree can lead to a warning and/or temporary ban, as some that partake within these forum walls will already have found out. By following up why you disagree, it shifts the burden of proof away from why you might disagree, especially when there are multiple disagrees by the same person on the same topic.
Cardo
Active Member
Zilla91
Active Member
You would say that as you're one of those serial downvoters
The OP mentions a particular behaviour of disagreeing to a cultural stereotype and you want us to just ignore that and move on. There is nothing to do with all the faff about weaponizing disagrees etc., And I don’t think I am in any mood to explain to someone who has a biased view about a culture and listen to their half baked views and their cultural insights related to America. Sorry.
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Rooster6655
Active Member
Yes is the best way IMO!
The last time I had a couple of disagrees was funny as both people who disagreed had the opposite opinion to each other, even though the post was based on factual events, so made little sense other than misunderstanding the context,
I am not normally someone who can be relied on to pour oil on troubled waters.
But the original poster @RafP was seeking assistance with his legal claim for non-delivery of a feature that he had bought. Please can we keep this thread to just that? There are lots of other threads where the merits or demerits of Tesla's actions can be discussed, but this thread ought to be preserved to helping him and others pursue their case(s).
Mod comment
I started marking posts for deletion or moving which were off topic and there wasn’t much thread left. I’ve still deleted a few, maybe it’s the snow on a cold Thursday instead of few beers on a Saturday night, but please try and keep it on topic.
If the lack of USS thing doesn’t bother you then I’m very happy for you, but repeatedly saying so to people who are looking for constructive advice about a claim where the decision will be taken by someone who’s not on here isn’t helping at all. Feel free to dislike the view, I just don’t understand what you’re hoping to gain on this particular thread. If you are correcting FACTUAL points then that’s different.
The side topic on disagree v dislike has been left as it’s might be useful to understand what people mean through their use.
I started marking posts for deletion or moving which were off topic and there wasn’t much thread left. I’ve still deleted a few, maybe it’s the snow on a cold Thursday instead of few beers on a Saturday night, but please try and keep it on topic.
If the lack of USS thing doesn’t bother you then I’m very happy for you, but repeatedly saying so to people who are looking for constructive advice about a claim where the decision will be taken by someone who’s not on here isn’t helping at all. Feel free to dislike the view, I just don’t understand what you’re hoping to gain on this particular thread. If you are correcting FACTUAL points then that’s different.
The side topic on disagree v dislike has been left as it’s might be useful to understand what people mean through their use.
cliff harris
Member
FWIW I have a worryingly large number of Tesla shares, and am still furious about USS. In fact it makes me doubly furious. I'm annoyed personally that they lied about when Teslavision would work, and removed USS in such a stupid way.... and I'm annoyed as a shareholder that the management could drop the ball so spectacularly and create such an own goal.
People reckon it saved about $140 per car. My model Y was £73k. (I went full on performance-red-fsd!). They have done way more brand damage than they saved by skipping the USS. Bad for the customer, AND bad for the company.
People reckon it saved about $140 per car. My model Y was £73k. (I went full on performance-red-fsd!). They have done way more brand damage than they saved by skipping the USS. Bad for the customer, AND bad for the company.
Cardo
Active Member
I’d imagine I don’t hold anywhere near as many shares as you do, and I wouldn’t describe my feelings as fury, however I’m of a similar mindset. I feel this has all been managed very poorly by Tesla.
In my oh so humble opinion, I’m guessing what’s happened is the USS supplier upped their prices, Musk told them to stick it and said they’d move to vision only, told the developers to get it done in two weeks, and the developers have been pooing bricks since.
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