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Helping people find or sell a reservation for a model S or X

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by davidsiegel, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. davidsiegel

    davidsiegel New Member

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    Dear Tesla community,

    I'm not someone who hangs out in the forums or knows all about the options, but I did recently sell my Model S reservation, and I have since helped two other reservation owners sell theirs.

    Selling your reservation is not straightforward, as Tesla doesn't allow transfers. But a reservation holder can add another party to the process, and that person can pay all the bills and take delivery of the car. In effect, the two of you become co-owners until the car ships, at which time the seller can "hand over the keys" and the two can go separate ways. In my case, I live in New York City and the new owner will take delivery (and pay sales tax) in Florida.

    Both parties need to trust each other, but there is a procedure and it does work. I am willing to be the "marketmaker" for those buyers and sellers who want to meet each other. Buyers are willing to pay money for an early reservation, but everyone needs to understand how the process works and set expectations accordingly.

    I'm a big believer in Tesla. I hope that by making a more liquid market for reservations, more people will reserve and more people will get the car they desire sooner than they would otherwise. I do take a small commission but also have expenses in doing this. I may set up a web site. Until then, potential buyers and sellers can contact me directly: [email protected]
     
  2. araxara

    araxara S-P85#3,218 X-90D#3,299

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    Since there are two parties involved in this transaction, which party benefits from the $7500 tax credit?
     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    I asked, and the paperwork for the tax credit is only available to the 'Primary Owner', and that is the first one listed on the registration. It is not available to the one 2nd on the list.
     
  4. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    My MVPA has a spot for a co-buyer to sign, so it's not really a reservation spot that is being sold, but rather a car being purchased between a buyer and a co-buyer. That's the only "process" I am aware of that would allow a person to get the car early. I think the tax ramifications would be a can of worms for one of the "buyers" if not both.
     
  5. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    That tax credit goes to the original owner of the vehicle. The finalize process allows you to enter any name for the owner, and it doesn't appear that the reservation holder has to be an owner at all. So I don't think there would be any problem. The reservation holder may need to be the official buyer on the MVPA, but that's different that being the owner, I would think.
     
  6. joefee

    joefee Over 2 Million TMC page views

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    I don’t see why any one would need a 3rd party charging a “comission” to do this. Do it yourself or sell on delivery to the new buyer after a wire transfer.
     
  7. davidsiegel

    davidsiegel New Member

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    It is a process. If you agree with someone who wants your slot, you both go through the configuration and payment process together. You lose the tax credit. The other person can take delivery in any state and only pay sales tax for that state, while the original buyer has no tax implications and can even make a small profit. It is possible to sell a slot - I have seen it done. There are willing buyers.

    However, the people at Tesla say they don't want any backlash if people are just selling their slots to cash in, so they are restricting co-buyers to friends and family. I spoke with some people at Tesla and said that maybe if we were allowed to create a real second market for reservations (there are side markets for many illiquid asset classes - plenty of people bought and sold Facebook stock before it went public), that extra liquidity would encourage more people to sign up and could potentially help flatten the playing field. Certainly, everyone here has a right to build a car, take delivery, and then sell it immediately on eBay - so what's the difference? The Tesla people said it would be interesting if people would all support this idea and not get upset when they hear someone has sold a reservation. They said it's difficult to change what's already in place, but that it would be of interest to start a discussion and see what people think.

    So - what do you think? SHOULD there be a side market for reservations? SHOULD Tesla simply allow you to sell your reservation without having a co-purchase arrangement? If you think they should not, what rules do you like and why?
     
  8. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Can you explain? After reading the Form 8936 instructions, I don't see why this would be.
     
  9. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    I don't think Tesla's potential customers gain anything by Tesla opening the floodgates to the reselling of reservations. Only speculators would gain...
     
  10. onlinespending

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    I'm interested in selling my Model S reservation (approximately #2300) to someone interested in getting the car several months early. I do fully intend to get the car eventually, so I'd only be willing to sell my reservation for a decent profit. If interested, please PM me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    But I think Tesla certainly stands to gain a bunch. For starters, for those people already deferring or even considering canceling their reservation, it's better to find people willing to buy their spot in line. Additionally, it helps generate buzz around the car and the company. The word will get out that people are paying a premium to be one of the first people to get the car, which can only encourage more people to take out a reservation.
     
  11. Tommy

    Tommy Member

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    #11 Tommy, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
    The problem is if you get a line full of speculators, they crowd out those that want to purchase in the near future as the perceived delivery date gets pushed much further out due to the swelling ranks of speculators; so people don't reserve because it's a perceived 9 month wait where in reality maybe only a 4 to 6 month wait.
    A second problem arises for the factory in that the speculators only motive for the car is to make a quick profit selling their reservation spot and and will quickly bolt from the line (ask for deposit back) at any hint of a delay or problem that arises with the car; the long wait time suddenly evaporates which is not good for Tesla managing production output or Tesla the stock.

    Speculators screw up markets, no different here. Just IMO
     
  12. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    While this is true, it's different to have speculators who purchase 100 event tickets for $20 each or 20 iPhones for $600 each. I don't expect there are many who would purchase ten Model S at $80,000 on speculation.
     
  13. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    The tax credit is only available on a new car purchase and is not available to people buying for resale.
     
  14. Trnsl8r

    Trnsl8r Blue 85kwh since 12/8/12

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    Tommy has a point. If Tesla openly started letting people do this, they would spend extra admin time administering a flurry of speculative reservations, where people would only try to sell them and, if unsuccessful, ask for a refund. Horrible cash management and tons of overhead not related to selling cars.

    The only way I could advocate Tesla doing this is if the reservation has gone into non-refundable territory, so the speculator either transfers the reservation, loses the five grand, or buys the car.
     
  15. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I would not want to see Tesla go to a non-refundable $5,000 deposit so trying to keep speculators out another way is a smart idea.
     
  16. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    I don't see where a resale is taking place. Tesla allows the reservation holder to specify anyone as the registered owner. I posit that that would make that person the original owner and eligible for the tax credit.
     
  17. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    Currently someone can only reserve something like 4 Teslas as I recall so the speculative market wouldn't be too big.

    I think it's sort of pointless though. There's a speculative market in the short term, but unless demand vastly outstrips supply, the delay from "want" to "have" will be ~3 months in the not to distant future so the window of delay from order to configure that supports a speculation will become very small.
     
  18. KangarooAustralia

    KangarooAustralia EV Enthusiast

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    #18 KangarooAustralia, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
    I agree with mnx: Speculators are the only ones who gain at the expense of enthusiasts who really want the car by extending the wait time for them while allowing "Jonny come lately" to jump the queue by flashing his $ around. Unfair by my egalatarian ideals but typical of free market capitalism.

    I think if someone cancels their order, then Tesla should just move everybody up in the reservation list.
     
  19. KBF

    KBF Model S 2017

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    I strongly agree with this. Tesla is trying to reward those who provided them with support before the car was fully realized. They are marketing a "Tesla family" concept, and speculating has no place here. It's refreshing to find a tiny bit of our society that can be different than the rest of our objective capitalist society. Loyalty should be rewarded. It would leave a bitter taste in my mouth if someone like Justin Bieber purchased a Sig reservation in a week and get his Tesla before everyone who has patiently stood by Tesla through media smear jobs, stock volatility, and their difficult learning curve.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This would likely raise Tesla's profile, but would reinforce the idea that Tesla is merely a toy factory for the rich and famous, which distracts from their actual purpose of transforming the car industry from top to bottom. What I liked from the beginning was Tesla's level playing field (not just selling in select areas like California), and dealing directly with their customers (not hiding behind a dealership model).
     
  20. Trnsl8r

    Trnsl8r Blue 85kwh since 12/8/12

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    Sorry, I wasn't clear... I meant once the contract is signed and the $5000 becomes non-refundable (same as it is now), then maybe they could allow transfers. But if I was Tesla, I wouldn't... this just looks like asking for trouble.
     

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