Here's a tip for charging in parking garages
- Thread starter timk225
- Start date
What if you take something without permission from someone who never expected anyone to take it and so had never given the matter any thought? I think that's the more likely description here. It seems unlikely to me that the parking garage owner would have thought of the possibility of an EV owner searching out that one obscure outlet.
IMO the tone of the OP was how to be sneaky when you plug in.
We're arguing for six pages about the ethics of stealing 17¢.
Or maybe 60¢ if the OP was in Hawai'i.
IMO the tone of the OP was how to be sneaky when you plug in.
We're arguing for six pages about the ethics of stealing 17¢.
Or maybe 60¢ if the OP was in Hawai'i.
Big Earl
bnkwupt
WilliamG
Active Member
WilliamG
Active Member
Can I get the name and address of the parking garage so I can call and ask about EV charging? After several pages of arguments, I simply must find out. I’m happy to call so @timk225 retains plausible deniability.
This. I’d be happy to call the garage and read verbatim the first post.
Big Earl
bnkwupt
I'd just ask as a casual parker new to the area. See what kind of response you get if Average Joe shows up and asks.
Exactly this. Regardless of all the hair-splitting and lawyer speak, the OP made a video describing how to take electricity without being obvious and without asking the owner. I guarantee that there are many parking garage owners who would (rightfully) consider this to be stealing, even if the specific one the OP used doesn't.What if you take something without permission from someone who never expected anyone to take it and so had never given the matter any thought? I think that's the more likely description here. It seems unlikely to me that the parking garage owner would have thought of the possibility of an EV owner searching out that one obscure outlet.
IMO the tone of the OP was how to be sneaky when you plug in.
We're arguing for six pages about the ethics of stealing 17¢.
darth_vad3r
Well-Known Sith
We don’t know if the owner has thought about it or not is the point. We don’t know!
The owner can also consider it after the fact and grant permission retroactively. Or not. We don’t know
You can’t assess if it is theft or not, until you know if there is permission. Not ASKING for permission doesn’t mean you don’t have permission.
If I cut through someone's property, ignoring or not knowing there was a trespassing sign, did I have permission to cross through the property? I don’t know if I didn’t read the sign. What if the sign says no trespassing, except on Sunday. Then if it was a Sunday, I had permission to cut through — even though I didn’t KNOW I had permission.
darth_vad3r
Well-Known Sith
I guarantee you are right. I guarantee there are some that are okay with it too.
So... it’s not wrong unless you are in a parkade that disallows it.
darth_vad3r
Well-Known Sith
Right, so unless we know the status of permission, which we don’t, because OP didn’t ask, then we don’t know if it was theft.
Not asking for permission does not mean you do not have permission.
I would say it is wrong unless you're in one that allows it, but again, hair splitting.
The bigger deal is the OP making a video encouraging people to break the law.
powaking
Member
My company recently moved their HQ into the Seaport district with a parking garage underground. In the parking garage are Chargepoint chargers free to use and are located on every level. Although parking is not cheap ($28) I would gladly pay that than a similarly priced garage that offers NO free charging. Granted I don't have a need to go into the office all of the time but when I do I try to commute with another colleague and split the parking bill.
I would suggest to the OP that he reaches out to the parking garage owner/management that there are options to get charging infrastructure installed cheaply and would attract much more business. An empty parking spot is loss revenue.
Can I get the name and address of the parking garage so I can call and ask about EV charging? After several pages of arguments, I simply must find out. I’m happy to call so @timk225 retains plausible deniability.
It is in the beginning of the video, (Link in post #51 in this topic) when I get the parking ticket. Go see the video again. And I did include a disclaimer, a whole 4 seconds of it. I forget the exact wording, I think it was "for informational purposes only", so I think that makes it okay. Lawyers love disclaimers.
While we are conversing about the idea of "was it stealing for 17 cents", let's debate the moral standards of someone charging FOURTEEN DOLLARS
for a parking spot. Who is the real thief here? I know, I know, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 3 rights make a left, or something like that.....And if anyone really does call, get in touch with the garage OWNER, or at least the head of security, not some office secretary who won't have a clue what you're even talking about.
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darth_vad3r
Well-Known Sith
“It’s not wrong unless you are in a parkade that disallows it.”
“It’s wrong unless you are in a parkade that allows it.”
These statements are the same. I used a double-negative. We aren’t splitting hairs, we are saying the same thing with different words
There are 2 types of parkades, ones that allow it, and ones that don’t. Any ones that haven’t thought about it yet collapse into the other 2 categories once they think about it, and whatever decision they make affects your prior actions being theft or not.
I plugged in without asking, was that wrong?
Owner A: No, it’s fine, we allow charging. (NOT theft!)
Owner B: Yes, it’s theft. You stole power. We don’t allow charging. (THEFT!)
Owner C: Hmm, I haven’t thought about that yet ... <makes a decision>, <insert answer A or B>
You can't pretend the third state doesn't exist just because it could change in the future. The hair-splitting comes in to play in that gray area. But it's really not worth any more discussion. I noticed you completely ignored "The bigger deal" part of my response.“It’s not wrong unless you are in a parkade that disallows it.”
“It’s wrong unless you are in a parkade that allows it.”
These statements are the same. I used a double-negative. We aren’t splitting hairs, we are saying the same thing with different words
There are 2 types of parkades, ones that allow it, and ones that don’t. Any ones that haven’t thought about it yet collapse into the other 2 categories once they think about it, and whatever decision they make affects your prior actions being theft or not.
I plugged in without asking, was that wrong?
Owner A: No, it’s fine, we allow charging. (NOT theft!)
Owner B: Yes, it’s theft. You stole power. We don’t allow charging. (THEFT!)
Owner C: Hmm, I haven’t thought about that yet ... <makes a decision>, <insert answer A or B>
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
JasonR67
Member
Can someone summarize?
If I ask if I can use a public plug in a coffee shop without stating it's purpose, can I in fact use it to charge my EV?
If I ask if I can use a public plug in a coffee shop without stating it's purpose, can I in fact use it to charge my EV?
WilliamG
Active Member
Is that your defense? I just want to make sure.
The garage is private property, right? I do sort of feel like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. There's no point continuing this discussion, truly. The way the OP worded his "tip" was clear to me and others that it was subterfuge/shenanigans.
darth_vad3r
Well-Known Sith
To be clear, I’m not defending anyone. I’m telling the people that think it’s a clear cut case of theft that they are wrong, because they don’t know if the parkade permits charging or not. I’m not saying it isn’t theft either, I’m saying it’s u known if it’s theft.
It’s Schroedinger’s theft
WilliamG
Active Member
Absolutely. There's no clear-cut case, - what's clear cut is that the OP knows for sure that what HE believes is that it's stealing, otherwise there would be no reason for all this subterfuge. And because he clearly believes it, I believe it, too.
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