Womp, womp. Your ridiculous jihad against the TPC is total BS in this context (as in many others). Tesla sells/installs private superchargers for commercial entities that have a need for them for their fleet operations. If Hertz needs fast charging on their lot, they can have private superchargers installed, TPC is irrelevant.
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Hertz Employees Using All Superchargers
- Thread starter icculus
- Start date
srs5694
Active Member
By that logic, Hertz would also need 8,500+ DC fast chargers, which are quite pricey and difficult to install. Importing the adapters would be cheap and easy by comparison.
The best solution is for Hertz to install Level 2 EVSEs at all their locations. Those are cheap and easy to install. They could supplement use of these by using nearby Superchargers (or other DC fast chargers, with an adapter) when needed, but unless the turnover on the cars is routinely less than about four hours (give or take a bit, depending on the SoC of the returned cars), it'd be cheaper and easier to use on-site Level 2 EVSEs in most cases.
Given the lack of understanding of EVs generally, it's entirely possible that whoever is managing the Hertz location(s) that are relying on nearby Superchargers simply doesn't understand how to charge EVs. They're undoubtedly used to fueling gas cars, and they may simply have tried to fit the square peg of a Supercharger into the round hole of a gas station in their mental model. If it's really a problem at a given location, then it might be worth going to the Hertz site and having a polite and non-confrontational chat with the manager.
Mockingbird
Member
That's normally the case.
After vehicles are returned, they are cleaned, fuel up (if needed), and immediately rented out again.
They're usually returned to a numbered space, and sit there for at least 30-60 minutes before they're taken by the next customer. At most locations, the delay is probably longer than that, because most of the time I start the engine, it's "cold" (as shown on the coolant temperature gauge). So the best place for a level 2 EVSE is in the space where the vehicle will be parked until the next customer takes it away. I believe you're supposed to return the car with at least 20% battery and you get it with 80% or more, so in the worst case, they need to charge it up by 60% (although probably much less than that in most cases, because most customers aren't going to deliberately run it down to 20% and risk getting charged for returning it with 19%). They're renting the SR+ vehicles with a 52.5 kWh usable battery, and 60% of that is 31.5 kWh. With the 32A OBC running @ 208V (we'll assume that the location has 3 phase and they're using two of the phases as opposed to 240V), they can get about 6.6 kW into the battery. They can thus replenish the battery in about 4.5-5 hours in the worst case. In most cases, my guess is it would take between 1-3 hours, and if they have the vehicle charging while it is being cleaned, they can probably rent it out almost immediately.
Mockingbird
Member
From waiting in the lobby while waiting for the prior customer to return the vehicle, I would say that a 30 minutes turnaround time is generous.
So how much would the vehicle be able to charge in 30 minutes from a level 2 charger?
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Have you ever rented a car? This is not how it works. It’s not like “yeah the previous guy will drop it off at exactly 2, we’ll have it ready for you at 2:30!”
These cars probably wait longer than 30 minutes to be cleaned. Put them on a charger while they're waiting to be cleaned and while they're being cleaned. Then they're taken to their designated space and wait for the next customer to pick them up for several hours. Charge them up there too.
Mockingbird
Member
I have.
Have you?
Usually, the location doesn't actually have any vehicles waiting on the lot, so you have to wait in the lobby for a prior customer to return a vehicle.
Mockingbird
Member
No. The vehicles are cleaned right away so they can be rented out again ASAP.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
In 25+ years of driving and renting countless cars, this has literally never been my experience.
Mockingbird
Member
But they're not cleaned in zero time. Someone has to clean them. So charge them while they are being cleaned.
Yep, there are always a number of cars in designated spaces. After my flight lands, they typically assign a vehicle to me, but it takes me a while to get through the baggage claim and out to the car rental company location. I then check the board and it tells me which space my vehicle is in. But the thing is, they have to have a large number of vehicles waiting for customers, because the worst thing that can happen is for a customer who has a reservation to show up and they don't have a vehicle ready. Bad word of mouth would spread REALLY fast.
I thought that Superchargers were not supposed to be used for commercial vehicles.
Mockingbird
Member
Mockingbird
Member
I don't rent from Hertz because I don't want to be arrested.
@ucmndd was asking me about my experience renting vehicles, in general,
No, I'm pretty sure everyone else in this thread was talking about renting vehicles from Hertz and how they could avoid having to use a Supercharger to recharge vehicles between renters...
RTPEV
Active Member
Wow...that is very interesting indeed. I've been renting cars for nearly 30 years and I don't ever recall this happening. Maybe one time there was some kind of delay--I don't necessarily think it was waiting for a customer to return a car, but some confusion over the class of car we rented so they had to go change the paperwork or something.
Granted, I mostly rent from large airport sites, so maybe that accounts for the difference. I suspect that Hertz is renting their Teslas from such sites. Usually they tell you that your car is parked in spot #47, and you walk past dozens of cars waiting to be rented until you get to the one assigned to you. If I had to guess, most cars are sitting for hours to even days before being rented out.
Granted, Teslas may be in high demand (especially now), so I can certainly see higher turnaround for them, but given the nature of the Tesla rental model and the fact that when you rent one you are guaranteed the specific model (as opposed to getting the next car in the queue) and having to specify specific pick up and drop off times, they can certainly manage the flow of vehicles through their system, allowing a sufficient gap between drop off and pick up for any given car.
Someone did mention that they could simply plug the car in while it was being charged. I don't know if that would work. I did a fundraiser at a car wash just off airport once (smaller airport) where the car rental companies would send their cars. In fact, that was probably 80% of the cars that came through the car wash! They basically send the car through the car wash and then the interior gets a quick detail (vacuum, wipe down) at the other end, and then the car is driven back to the airport. I suspect that larger rental facilities at bigger airports might have their own on-site cleaning facilities, but I bet it works the same, where the car is driven to a central location where it is washed/cleaned and then driven back to the lot. Not any opportunity to charge during that time.
But I do think that there would be sufficient time to get a meaningful charge in between rentals. I'm not buying the argument that 30 minute TATs are typical.
cpa
Active Member
Just spitballin' here....
Hertz does not own the land at the airports. It likely leases their counter space and parking lot from the Airport Authority, or whatever governmental agency is in charge of the airport. The parking lot might even be a consortium of all car rental companies since we frequently see one giant parking lot for all rental car companies. Hertz is assigned and rents X spaces for their cars. I further assume (and could easily be wrong) that their lease payments includes all utilities, as it would be impractical to have electric meters for every counter space, restaurant, and other airport amenity.
What would prevent employees from plugging in their cars during idle times? What would prevent other rental car companies from utilizing Superchargers for their fleets? If the airport leases include utilities, how would the airport carve out the electricity for Hertz' vehicles? Would they have to spend a lot of money to wire the parking lots or some other area? To have dedicated charging at an off-site location might work if there could be a method to identify the rental company and kWh added, but that would entail additional safeguards and procedures to prohibit the public from grabbing those electrons and not paying for them.
The last time I rented a car it was from Hertz at the local airport. This was 2012 before we bought our first Tesla. I was pulled over in South Dakota for doing 78/75 on the interstate. Lucky me, the trooper had Rusty the drug-sniffing dog with him. Rusty sniffed the rental car, and he alerted the officer. No drugs, I assured the officer. He searched all my luggage and everything. Rusty and he found nothing. Fifty minutes later I was on my way with no citation, just a cheery, "Welcome to South Dakota."
I reported this to Hertz when I returned the rental about a week later. The agent advised me that sometimes the cleaning crew would sit in the rental cars that were to be cleaned or that had just been cleaned and smoked weed during their shifts. It was the residue that Rusty sensed when he circled the rental.
The employees who service rentals to get them back on the road probably don't make this job a career. Some might be college students, but most are likely forced to work, and will quit when they get tired of the tedium and repetitiveness.
