HEY TESLA -- Safety feature request - ADD THIS!

[robby]

My goodness, what timing for this thread.

Just this Friday, one week to the day after our delivery, my 85D failed to switch as the OP described. Here's the result:

I'm sure Tesla has a rationale for implementing shifting the way that it does, but I view this as a mechanical failure. When I move a physical lever toward R or D, I expect the vehicle to be in that gear (as is the case with every other car on the road). If there's a problem switching, the vehicle should alert me instantaneously.

An audible beep would be a great way to indicate a successful or failed switching. Maybe a different tone for each. If anybody from Tesla is reading, please add this feature or consider an alternative way to address it - it would have saved me a $1000 deductible and weeks of waiting, frustration and heartbreak seven days into ownership.

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Looks like someone else had the same problem but was able to stop three inches prior to colliding. Second to last post on page 1: Stupid Things New Owners Do | Forums | Tesla Motors

Another TM forum user (Pilot_51) mentioned the issue on 13 Dec 2014 Shifting to Drive while slowly reversing | Forums | Tesla Motors

 

[Cyclone]

Ouch Robby. I'm a couple states away and I am feeling your pain! I hope she gets back to tip-top shape soon!

 

[GSP]

I don't understand why Tesla needs to inhibit direction change shifts (D-R or R-D). Electric motors can just change to generator mode until they come to a stop and then seamlessly switch to motor mode in the new direction. This would mimick the behavior of automatic transmissions, which can provide the same effect as long as speeds are low (less than 5-10 mph).

If Tesla must inhibit direction change shifts, it is much better to shift to neutral and to issue visual and audible warnings to the driver when this happens.

GSP

 

[SlyWombat]

Please Tesla, no beeping when backing. As others have posted, I had the Toyota dealer turn that sound off in a Prius I used to own as it was extremely annoying.

Okay, it could be an user configurable option, but not the default.

It is not the backup beep, there is a three tone beep in the car if you are rolling in reverse and try and put it in drive (ie an audible warning). I am sure prior to "6.X" I could put it in drive while still rolling in reverse, but now this was added, not recently, but in the last 6 months.

 

[mibaro2]

We all switch back and forth but I have never, not a single time had the car not switch. You definitely have to have the foot on the brake for the car to even consider switching to reverse or back to D. And you probably have to be below a certain speed. Both make perfect sense. I had several occasions where I was able to switch before a complete stop because I was able to accelerate forward while the car was still rolling backwards. So the threshold isn't zero.

If I am going 5km or less, I can switch from reverse to drive without having my foot on the brake. I use this technique every morning. Back out of my driveway, car slows to 5 km or less, and I put it in drive without touching the brake. I read it in the release notes somewhere that the threshold is either 5km or 5mph or less in order to switch without braking.

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I don't understand why Tesla needs to inhibit direction change shifts (D-R or R-D). Electric motors can just change to generator mode until they come to a stop and then seamlessly switch to motor mode in the new direction. This would mimick the behavior of automatic transmissions, which can provide the same effect as long as speeds are low (less than 5-10 mph).

If Tesla must inhibit direction change shifts, it is much better to shift to neutral and to issue visual and audible warnings to the driver when this happens.

GSP

The biggest surprise I had in my first week of ownership was putting the car in drive, and it still rolled backwards. And being parked in a slopped parking spot almost had me back into a solid concrete wall while in drive. That's when I learned that Tesla's D isn't like an automatic transmission (where you can't go backwards in an ICE when in D, the gears prevent you from rolling backwards). It is more like a manual transmission.

I agree that an audible beep when shifting to neutral would be welcomed.

 

[hbouw]

My goodness, what timing for this thread.

I'm sure Tesla has a rationale for implementing shifting the way that it does, but I view this as a mechanical failure. When I move a physical lever toward R or D, I expect the vehicle to be in that gear (as is the case with every other car on the road).

if I accidentally bump the gear shift lever while doing 70mph I really wouldn't want the car to select reverse.

That said, I agree a "failure to comply" beep may have saved you from your mistake and that seems like a good feature to add.

 

[AlbertOnMars]

Having just taken delivery of my MS this past week, I am getting used to how the car "shifts" into Reverse and Drive. I have to back out of my driveway onto the street, requiring me to shift from Reverse into Drive every time. Right now I always look at the dash display to make sure the car is in "D" before accelerating. Nearly all of my previous cars have been manuals, where it is never ambiguous which gear you are starting in because of the physical gearshift nature. Although you can certainly put a manual into the wrong gear if you are not careful, with my other car I have to pull up on a "ring" on the shifter to get the car into reverse.

Audible feedback to confirm a gear change in the MS would be nice, as long as it can be disabled. Ideally there would be unique sounds for Reverse, Neutral, and Drive.

 

[Cyclone]

if I accidentally bump the gear shift lever while doing 70mph I really wouldn't want the car to select reverse.

That said, I agree a "failure to comply" beep may have saved you from your mistake and that seems like a good feature to add.

i agree with grasshopper. A "failure to comply" beep would be great. In that scenario, I dare say, it may not even. We'd to be able to be disabled since it would only go off when you try (or accidentally) shift and the car does not comply.

 

[robby]

if I accidentally bump the gear shift lever while doing 70mph I really wouldn't want the car to select reverse.

That said, I agree a "failure to comply" beep may have saved you from your mistake and that seems like a good feature to add.

Yeah, my main point is just that any time a car disobeys a human command, it should do something dramatic enough to counter the expectations of the driver, who is expecting the car to do as told.

As an aside, I think deciding when to override a human for safety's sake is a very difficult problem. Your hypothetical is a good example where it's useful, but there are others where it would be detrimental. Imagine if someone were pinned behind a car as it backed up and the driver quickly threw it into drive to set them free, only to hit the gas and accelerate into them.

Whatever the functional implementation is, there needs to be stronger communication from car to driver when something unexpected occurs.

 

[AudubonB]

I'm finding this entire thread very strange: here's why.

29 posts, many of them agreeing with the OP. Contrariwise, to me, one of the more fundamental features unique to the Model S of when one is reversing/forwarding is that (1)always when in reverse the screen shows the back-up camera; then (2)when shifting out of reverse the image disappears - this is an inescapable visual confirmation of whether one is in "R" or "D".

Now, there are ways to re-configure so that the backup camera doesn't show (I think), but why one would change that default I can't, for the life of me, understand.

 

[Boppus]

I think the basic idea is good, but I wouldn't want a beep that sounds every time I successfully switched to D. That would be annoying. I would rather have a warning beep (maybe three quick beeps or something) when the car notices that I tried to switch gears but it prevented it for whatever reason.

+ 1

 

[beeeerock]

if I accidentally bump the gear shift lever while doing 70mph I really wouldn't want the car to select reverse.

That said, I agree a "failure to comply" beep may have saved you from your mistake and that seems like a good feature to add.

You're absolutely right about 70 mph!!

I think the problem comes down to habit. In a manual transmission car, I know what gear I've selected - by feel - and expect the right response as the clutch is released... whether I'm rolling backwards or not. Same with an automatic transmission... I'm sure everyone backs out of their driveway, selects drive as the car coasts almost to a stop, and expects the car to move forward. Much like the 'creep' feature that was added to the Model S, it's what one expects and given it's your habit to do this every day, you aren't likely to notice if the screen has gone off on the backup camera. It's a reflex that might override noticing the screen or the indicator on the instrument panel. The gear should be selected reliably and if there is a problem, the car should rudely awaken you to the fact. And maybe go to neutral instead of staying in the gear you thought you left.

There's surely enough electronic wizardry in this car to prevent this from happening... and frankly, I'll be testing this on my car to see how prevalent a problem it is... seems almost unbelievable that it exists at all!!!

 

[yak-55]

i agree with grasshopper. A "failure to comply" beep would be great. In that scenario, I dare say, it may not even. We'd to be able to be disabled since it would only go off when you try (or accidentally) shift and the car does not comply.

Yes, I agree. If the car has (sensibly) chosen NOT to do what I have commanded, I would appreciate AUDIBLE feedback. While visual confirmation is available (gear selection on the dash or backup camera status) there's no telling where the driver is looking in this situation. (Out the back of the car is my habit). Also, In addition to the audible warning, I would prefer a shift to NEUTRAL if the car determines a F to R or R to F shift is not sensible.

I haven't had any close calls (yet), but I have had the car "ignore me" unexpectedly when backing out of my driveway.

 

[jerry33]

The backup beeping in the Prius potentially saved me twice in ten years. I say potentially because there's a good possibility that I would have stopped before any harm was done. Nevertheless, I did appreciate the warning, and I never really minded the reverse beeping anyway.

 

[SlyWombat]

You're absolutely right about 70 mph!!

Why? Full power astern Scotty! (ok, so I think there is a mechanical link for reverse gear, so maybe not just reversing polarity )

 

[gregincal]

I'm sure Tesla has a rationale for implementing shifting the way that it does, but I view this as a mechanical failure. When I move a physical lever toward R or D, I expect the vehicle to be in that gear (as is the case with every other car on the road). If there's a problem switching, the vehicle should alert me instantaneously.

Actually, I believe all modern automatics behave as the Tesla and will ignore a shift selection when traveling in the opposite direction. The speed at which they disallow this varies from car to car.

 

[robby]

Actually, I believe all modern automatics behave as the Tesla and will ignore a shift selection when traveling in the opposite direction. The speed at which they disallow this varies from car to car.

They're smart about when to perform the mechanical switch, but I don't know of any automatic transmission that will accelerate backward while in drive.

 

[Ugliest1]

For the most part the gearshift obeys me D or R. Occasionally (rarely) it doesn't. I *think* the pattern is, when I give it a too-quick flip, i.e. not pausing long enough (¼ second maybe?). And I have to shift again hoping no one is watching. I sometimes shift without the brake as well, but that would only be at 1 or 2 km/hr. The too-quick result also sometimes happens changing from Park. I'm ambivalent about a warning click or chime.

 

[Khatsalano]

We have a Prius and an S85D. I agree, a configurable gear-change chime would be fantastic and good for safety. I would not like the Prius backing beep however; we have turn off my constant-beeping-when-backing feature in the Prius but we have to to do it again after every service.

 

[Doug_G]

I little "bong" sound whenever you change shift modes would be a very good idea. Including going to D, N, P and R.