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Hey, y'all, Toyota believes BEVs are impossible...

gavine

Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
Apr 1, 2014
2,638
2,224
Philadelphia, PA
Can someone explain why anyone would buy a hydrogen car? It basically equals a gas car, only much more expensive and no place to fill it. Other than zero emissions, is there any other reason for them? I can see them being viable if lithium-ion was never invented and petroleum ran-out, but right now I see no reason for them. Please shed some light, if there is any.

If you just want to be green, then electric seems to make more sense, especially since you can charge at home and publicly on the rare occasion that you need to.
 

gordo

Member
Jan 16, 2015
225
92
CA
Can someone explain why anyone would buy a hydrogen car? It basically equals a gas car, only much more expensive and no place to fill it.

Maybe you have a retro 80s thing going on? The Mirai does 0-60 in around 9 seconds -- so that's 80s-era acceleration for you... plus it features a "touchscreen" from the 80s as well:

2016_toyota_fuel_cell_vehicle_012.jpg
 

Grendal

SpaceX Moderator
Moderator
Jan 31, 2012
6,786
9,509
Santa Fe, New Mexico
Can someone explain why anyone would buy a hydrogen car? It basically equals a gas car, only much more expensive and no place to fill it. Other than zero emissions, is there any other reason for them? I can see them being viable if lithium-ion was never invented and petroleum ran-out, but right now I see no reason for them. Please shed some light, if there is any.

If you just want to be green, then electric seems to make more sense, especially since you can charge at home and publicly on the rare occasion that you need to.

Here is a rant I posted when some commenter (as they always seem to do) flatly said that HFCV were the future:

In what way is a HFCV better? Saying it is means nothing. Show how it is better. What specifications does it have to show that it is better? Let me reiterate the important questions for future sales to customers:

Is it faster? Nope.
Is it quicker? Nope.
Is it easier to fuel? It takes twice as long as a gas car.
Does the fuel cost less? Nope.
Is the car less expensive? Definitely not. It's quite a bit more expensive.
Is it more efficient? Questionable.
Is it so clean that an environmentalist would want to own one? Very questionable. Evidence seems to indicate it is worse than a gas car.
Does it look amazing? Nope.

Let me add the question of where you get your fuel? Almost no where on the planet. There are something like 20 hydrogen stations in the USA. That means you only have to build about 10,000 more of them to service the possible needs. Care to know how much building 10,000 new hydrogen stations will cost? Think many billions and you'd be about right.

So I am in the same camp as you. I just can't see any reason for someone to want to own an HFCV. What do you gain? Water coming out of a tailpipe? That's just a fancy magician's trick.
 

ggies07

Active Member
Nov 8, 2012
4,170
10,172
DFW
I'm really confused by Toyota's ongoing actions towards BEVs...are they really that butt-hurt over what happened with Tesla? From what I remember Toyota and Telsa engineers had differences, but Toyota was trying to go the BEV direction. Then Tesla told them they didn't have enough batteries for them to use and that's when the contract was not renewed. FROM THEN ON, Toyota has been all about slamming BEVs for their fuel cell project. Sad really.......
 
Maybe you have a retro 80s thing going on? The Mirai does 0-60 in around 9 seconds -- so that's 80s-era acceleration for you... plus it features a "touchscreen" from the 80s as well:

View attachment 88237

Don't forget the green LEDs, also from the 80s. When the LED lights up that means it is on :)

- - - Updated - - -

I saw this on the Tesla Motors forum...

Here are some of Toyota's finest engineers working quite hard at building an EV like Tesla but they are completely stumped by the "physics" of it :) According to them, hydrogen is the way to go as that's the technology that will most prolong their existing gasoline car sales.

monkey_process[1].jpg
 

ItsNotAboutTheMoney

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2012
12,486
11,085
Maine
Can someone explain why anyone would buy a hydrogen car? It basically equals a gas car, only much more expensive and no place to fill it. Other than zero emissions, is there any other reason for them? I can see them being viable if lithium-ion was never invented and petroleum ran-out, but right now I see no reason for them. Please shed some light, if there is any.

If you just want to be green, then electric seems to make more sense, especially since you can charge at home and publicly on the rare occasion that you need to.

Think of it as using natural gas but a smoother ride because your car doesn't need lots of explosion to make it run. With an HFCV you can guarantee no more than one explosion during the life of the car.
 

nwdiver

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2013
9,136
13,850
United States
Here is a rant I posted when some commenter (as they always seem to do) flatly said that HFCV were the future:

In what way is a HFCV better? Saying it is means nothing. Show how it is better. What specifications does it have to show that it is better? Let me reiterate the important questions for future sales to customers:

Is it faster? Nope.
Is it quicker? Nope.
Is it easier to fuel? It takes twice as long as a gas car.
Does the fuel cost less? Nope.
Is the car less expensive? Definitely not. It's quite a bit more expensive.
Is it more efficient? Questionable.
Is it so clean that an environmentalist would want to own one? Very questionable. Evidence seems to indicate it is worse than a gas car.
Does it look amazing? Nope.

Let me add the question of where you get your fuel? Almost no where on the planet. There are something like 20 hydrogen stations in the USA. That means you only have to build about 10,000 more of them to service the possible needs. Care to know how much building 10,000 new hydrogen stations will cost? Think many billions and you'd be about right.

So I am in the same camp as you. I just can't see any reason for someone to want to own an HFCV. What do you gain? Water coming out of a tailpipe? That's just a fancy magician's trick.

You forgot the most important one...

Does it serve as FUD for dimwitted consumers? Yup.

AND unlike EVs... EVERY FCV MUST fill-up at a H2 station...
 

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