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High Amperage Charger On Inventory Cars - Now Standard on MS?
- Thread starter ericonline
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- Model S
3PH: 3 phase-power charger. Different from North American spec Teslas. This thread doesn't apply to your car
You'll find this charger on basically all the non North American Spec Teslas since basically only USA/Canada/Mexico use single-phase power in residential homes.
Shock-On-T
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No, single phase is common in Australia. I have single phase in two out of three homes.3PH: 3 phase-power charger. Different from North American spec Teslas. This thread doesn't apply to your car
You'll find this charger on basically all the non North American Spec Teslas since basically only USA/Canada/Mexico use single-phase power in residential homes.
I also have the original HPWC (single phase only) at one house, and a new HPWC (single or three-phase) at another house.
jelloslug
Active Member
In North America, 3 phase is never found outside of industrial/commercial applications.
So if I have the 48A charger in my S75D what am I missing?
I think the superchargers still charge my car at the maximum rate, right? So the home charging is the only place I'm likely to be affected. With a 50A 240V connection, I get 33 miles of range per hour of charge and that's at 40A. When I visit family, I either use a 50A 240V circuit, using 40A, allowing the 33 mile/charge-hour, or I use a 30A 240V dryer electrical adapter. That 30A gets me 23 miles of range per hour of charge. The 72A charger won't help me away from home since I'm supply limited to 30A or 40A. If I use a supercharger, I think the on board charger is bypassed so I get the maximal rate the supercharger provides.
If I put in the Tesla home charging apparatus, I suppose I'm limited to using 48A. That extra 8A (compared to the plug in limit of 40A) would increase my charge rate by 20%. That should give me about 40 miles of range per hour of charging. I've noticed that increasing the amperage does increase the charge rate by more than the simple ratios would indicate, up to 40A anyway, and I assume that trend continues.
With a 75D I started with a range of 259 miles, that has rapidly dropped to 250 after the first couple of charges. So to increase my charge by 200 miles of range, the 33 miles per hour charge rate would take just a bit over 6 hours. At 40 miles per hour of charge, it'll take 5 hours. That hardly seems worth the expense or the effort to install Tesla's charger.
If I could charge at 72A, I should be able to cut the home charge time by 1/3, so that charge would take about 3 hours and 20 minutes.
I know I'm ignoring the slowing of charge as the battery charge passes 90%. Since the battery slows it's rate of charge at 90% of capacity, I'm guessing my 40A or 48A would at some point supply the maximum accepted, so the advantage of the 72A would probably disappear at 90% or so. So charging from 50 miles to 250 miles, then leaving out the top 10%, or 25 miles, leaves a difference of 1/3 of the time over 175 miles. So with Tesla's home charger installed that 175 miles of range should take me 4 hrs and 40 min (at 40 per hour). If I had 72A, I should get something over 53 miles of charge per hour, so 3.3 hours, or 3 hours 18 min. So I'd save about an hour and 22 min. Is this about right?
When I'm home I charge overnight so that 1 hour 22 min time savings really doesn't matter to me. It's unlikely I'll come home, sleep for a couple of hours then start a trip.
It makes me think that 72A charger isn't as important with the 75KWH battery packs as it might be with the larger packs. If the only place it would help me is overnight at home, I don't think having that 72A charger would make a bit of difference to me.
I think the superchargers still charge my car at the maximum rate, right? So the home charging is the only place I'm likely to be affected. With a 50A 240V connection, I get 33 miles of range per hour of charge and that's at 40A. When I visit family, I either use a 50A 240V circuit, using 40A, allowing the 33 mile/charge-hour, or I use a 30A 240V dryer electrical adapter. That 30A gets me 23 miles of range per hour of charge. The 72A charger won't help me away from home since I'm supply limited to 30A or 40A. If I use a supercharger, I think the on board charger is bypassed so I get the maximal rate the supercharger provides.
If I put in the Tesla home charging apparatus, I suppose I'm limited to using 48A. That extra 8A (compared to the plug in limit of 40A) would increase my charge rate by 20%. That should give me about 40 miles of range per hour of charging. I've noticed that increasing the amperage does increase the charge rate by more than the simple ratios would indicate, up to 40A anyway, and I assume that trend continues.
With a 75D I started with a range of 259 miles, that has rapidly dropped to 250 after the first couple of charges. So to increase my charge by 200 miles of range, the 33 miles per hour charge rate would take just a bit over 6 hours. At 40 miles per hour of charge, it'll take 5 hours. That hardly seems worth the expense or the effort to install Tesla's charger.
If I could charge at 72A, I should be able to cut the home charge time by 1/3, so that charge would take about 3 hours and 20 minutes.
I know I'm ignoring the slowing of charge as the battery charge passes 90%. Since the battery slows it's rate of charge at 90% of capacity, I'm guessing my 40A or 48A would at some point supply the maximum accepted, so the advantage of the 72A would probably disappear at 90% or so. So charging from 50 miles to 250 miles, then leaving out the top 10%, or 25 miles, leaves a difference of 1/3 of the time over 175 miles. So with Tesla's home charger installed that 175 miles of range should take me 4 hrs and 40 min (at 40 per hour). If I had 72A, I should get something over 53 miles of charge per hour, so 3.3 hours, or 3 hours 18 min. So I'd save about an hour and 22 min. Is this about right?
When I'm home I charge overnight so that 1 hour 22 min time savings really doesn't matter to me. It's unlikely I'll come home, sleep for a couple of hours then start a trip.
It makes me think that 72A charger isn't as important with the 75KWH battery packs as it might be with the larger packs. If the only place it would help me is overnight at home, I don't think having that 72A charger would make a bit of difference to me.
The main place the larger charger is ever useful (except if you need to recharge more quickly at home to go out again) is when you are at a location with an HPWC that (a) charges quickly enough to make use of it (72 A or higher) and (b) someone else wants to use the HPWC (you can't sit on it all night as you do at home).
Mine (100D) also says it (included). The price isn't there, just included. So, wasn't there a recent change for European models? I read something, but I can't/don't keep up the foreign market changes. I thought there was something about all models there getting the higher charger?
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If I remember correctly, the service manual says to stick a screwdriver under the plastic part and pop them up through the mounting brackets. I tried this, and could not really get enough leverage for this to work. I didn't want to damage anything by just pulling up with my hands... With that said, everyone I've talked to (out side of tesla) seems to just pull up on the seat??
Yep, even Rich (of flooded car fame) showed us this in his videos, I believe. It really should pop right off. Wait, what service manual?! Unless you are also in Massachusetts....
Yep, even Rich (of flooded car fame) showed us this in his videos, I believe. It really should pop right off. Wait, what service manual?! Unless you are also in Massachusetts....
Yes, I also live in MA.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Whether or not faster AC charging is beneficial depends on your driving needs. To some people it's very useful, while to others is provides absolutely no benefit whatsoever. To give you an example, I have an 80A charger and my wife has 48A. She plugs into 80A capable HPWC and I use a 40A mobile connector. I used the 80A charging 4 times in the last 2.5 years, only once was it actually useful (the other 3 times was first to test the HPWC install, and another 2 times when I was working on my wife's S in the garage and plugged mine while on the driveway and HPWC is the only charger we have that will reach onto the driveway). I did use the 80A charging once on a trip - there it was much appreciated as it halved the time I had to wait. My wife on the other hand has benefited from 48A vs. 40A charging at home a number of times, on days when she does a 100mile trip in the morning, comes home for a bit, then drives another 100+miles in the afternoon. That doesn't happen often anymore, but on those days the extra 8A helps by providing a bit extra buffer. Considered upgrading to 72A but it's not worth $1,900 to us - if she drove 150miles twice a day, then it would be.
Yes, on the Swedish website it says that upgrade charger(16,5 kW) is standard on all cars order after the 30th June.
jelloslug
Active Member
The service manual has a long drawn out process that I cannot possibly see how you could actually do with the seat in place. That absolute worst thing that could happen is that you could break the plastic retainer and you would have to spend $5 or so on a replacement one.
Why did your range drop 9 miles after the first couple of charges? Should that happen?
It is normal to get an initial drop. After that the decrease slows. I've read that the battery pack should have at least 80% of initial capacity at 300,000 miles and at least 50% at 500,000 miles. So this is a long term relationship between me and my battery pack.
The second factor is the measuring system in the car needs recalibration, and I have not done that yet. As I understand it, I need to run the charge down low, 10% or so then charge to 100%. I think it is a one time low to high charge to recalibrate. Some have said the initial capacity returned after having done that. Since I haven't done it I cannot say whether indicated capacity will return to 259 miles.
I don't think it is a worry, but there will be slow progressive capacity loss. I have 2651 miles on it so far. I do take care of the battery avoiding excessive use of superchargers and staying between 20-80% charging as much as is practical. I do expect the indicated capacity will return with a recalibration.
Do you have a source for that?
It is my understanding that lithium ion batteries last longest when the use keeps the batteries closest to 50% charged, so if one used say 20% each day, ideally they'd charge to 60% then use it down to 40% each day.
That 80% seems it should be an upper limit rather than a daily goal.
Honestly the question is probably moot because the 80% charge doesn't significantly decrease battery life, as I understand it. Also that 80% may be beneficial if it plays a role in balancing the batteries. So if Tesla has made that recommendation, I'd like to read it.
You are probably right, here are some more information and as you say, it's about keeping the battery around 50%.
Tesla battery expert recommends daily charging limit to optimize durability
