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High cost of charging according to TeslaFi?

So here are the totals for drives from 9/10/20 to 1/16/21. The 262 Wh/Mile seems pretty spot on with the rated 260 Wh/Mile by using 964 kWh over the 3685 miles driven. However, when I look at my total charging costs over that same period of time, it shows about 1347 kWh added. Where is the 383 kWh difference going? Is that all pre-heating / warming the battery? That seems like a lot of energy towards that. If I use the 1347 kWh added as "actual energy" added over that period of time, I only get 366 Wh / Mile.

It gets worse because the 1347 added assumes 100% charging efficiency. When I download the charging data and sum up the "kWh used" I get 1555 kWh (about a 87% charge efficiency. I charge at home using my Tesla Wall Connector at 13A). That drops the "actual energy" used to be over 3685 miles driven to be 422 Wh / Mile.

Is my math right? Are folks using TeslaFi seeing the same thing? Are the real world energy costs actually that much higher than the 260 Wh/Mile being advertised?

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Since when was it important to know what the total energy used was, including preconditioning and everything else that can consume energy? The number to be concerned about is energy consumption when driving. This value demonstrates how efficient a vehicle is, or isn’t.

With that in mind, the total amount of energy consumed when you consider everything else that will contribute to the total cost is still FAR better than almost every other car on the road. If we evaluated an ICE in the same manner, I think that would be an eye opener.

The truth of the matter is that most EV’s are so efficient to begin with that you will begin to notice the inefficiencies with little effort because they will have a larger impact on the potential result.
 
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I can see how some people would only be interested in how much energy the car is using while moving. But I'm trying to evaluate total cost of energy consumed to own my car. The car may be super efficient while driving but if it costs an arm and a leg to charge it and keep the battery warm while idle or sleeping then it's not really as cost effective as it is on paper. A significant expense isn't being discussed (assuming TeslaFi is right and my math is sound).

I'm not sure why you're comparing to ICE cars. I own a Model Y, you don't need to convince me of the virtues of electric vs ICE. I'm simply trying to figure out how much my MY is costing me in energy costs. And there's a cost that I wasn't anticipating because I was only focused on energy consumed while driving.
 
I don't think my actual rate is too relevant for everyone else here. The point I want to drive home is owners often think about their MY as costing them 260 Wh/Mile, or 241 Wh/Mile in their M3. I think part of this comes from the Tesla Energy dash display where it shows your drive efficiency and owners are comparing that to the rated Wh/Mile. This is fine for driving efficiency but then that number is often used to translate it to a direct cost for the trip. Most posts or blogs talk about a trip costing them $x based on just that drive efficiency. Some even use that number and compare it to gas costs for ICE cars over those same miles which would is not a direct comparison.

The reality is it costs me closer to 366 Wh/Mile or really 422 Wh/Mile (when charging efficiency is taken into account) on my MY when taking into account charging and driving costs (despite a solid diving efficiency of 262 Wh/Mile). This is 41% or 62% more expensive in energy costs to charge and drive those miles than rated. If you don't pay for charging your car it's less relevant and only focusing on driving efficiency makes sense. For those that do (most of us) and are cost conscious, that number - "How much did my Tesla cost me on my electric bill to charge my car and drive those miles" - is something to be considered.

People report about Tesla making tweaks to improve the driving efficiency Wh/Mile. There is less talk about and improving efficiency of charging / sentry mode / pre-conditioning / keeping the battery warm / etc which based on my observation can have a huge impact on cost of ownership.

To answer your question directly, I pay .18 per kWh in NJ. It's not a great rate (but don't tell the unfortunate folks in CA I said that). After looking over my math, I'm looking to see if I can reduce my supply costs. My delivery costs are fixed at .05 per kWh.
 
Yeah, I pay $0.11 per kWh so that's about $150 dollars over that period of time so more than $1 per day for me. A friend in Cal pays more than three times that so a grand a year. It adds up. For me it's worth $1 per day to have a comfy car and for sentry mode but nice to know I can save a bit by not using those functions. Minus, I guess, the extra energy used if just driving off in a car whose battery isn't up to temp, not sure how one would measure that.
 
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Not sure why an owner would only be concerned about the energy used while actually driving but to each there own. I did a back of the envelope calculation with the stats laid out in the first post and compared the costs to our 2011 VW Sportwagen (which our Tesla Model 3 replaced). I used 15 cents/KW in the calculations. The VW weighed almost four thousand pounds which is in the same ball park as the M3/MY vehicles. Given the current diesel prices (which are low), the cost per mile would be about the same; however, there are additional costs per mile for the VW such as oil/filter changes and replacement of fuel/air filters etc etc... I will state the obvious the VW does not use any energy while the engine is not running. I purchased the new Tesla Generation 3 Wall Connectors hoping the unit would eventually be updated to track total energy (what I am paying for) per month being delivered to the car. Over time the stats would give me a good idea of the normal usage/cost month by month and if there where a large variation could help point out a potential problem with the vehicle. When friends and family inquire about my cost of ownership , I try to give them an honest answer.
 
Not sure why an owner would only be concerned about the energy used while actually driving but to each there own. I did a back of the envelope calculation with the stats laid out in the first post and compared the costs to our 2011 VW Sportwagen (which our Tesla Model 3 replaced). I used 15 cents/KW in the calculations. The VW weighed almost four thousand pounds which is in the same ball park as the M3/MY vehicles. Given the current diesel prices (which are low), the cost per mile would be about the same; however, there are additional costs per mile for the VW such as oil/filter changes and replacement of fuel/air filters etc etc... I will state the obvious the VW does not use any energy while the engine is not running. I purchased the new Tesla Generation 3 Wall Connectors hoping the unit would eventually be updated to track total energy (what I am paying for) per month being delivered to the car. Over time the stats would give me a good idea of the normal usage/cost month by month and if there where a large variation could help point out a potential problem with the vehicle. When friends and family inquire about my cost of ownership , I try to give them an honest answer.

[request] Show the date & times of the last 10 charges on the center display

The thread linked above relates to hidden energy usage the casual owner my never see..
 
I can see how some people would only be interested in how much energy the car is using while moving. But I'm trying to evaluate total cost of energy consumed to own my car. The car may be super efficient while driving but if it costs an arm and a leg to charge it and keep the battery warm while idle or sleeping then it's not really as cost effective as it is on paper. A significant expense isn't being discussed (assuming TeslaFi is right and my math is sound).

I'm not sure why you're comparing to ICE cars. I own a Model Y, you don't need to convince me of the virtues of electric vs ICE. I'm simply trying to figure out how much my MY is costing me in energy costs. And there's a cost that I wasn't anticipating because I was only focused on energy consumed while driving.

Understood. I am humbled by the universal disagreement in my opinion. Having said that, I would still like to share my reasoning.

When one tries to understand the total cost to own a vehicle, that should also include the understanding that every owner will have a different result, especially when it comes to energy usage. This will be influenced by several factors, such as: charging methods, usage of preconditioning, scheduled charging, sentry mode settings, outside air temp, average speed, dog mode, etc.. This fact is exaggerated by the fact that EV’s don’t involve much maintenance and are super efficient. For this reason, personally, I want to understand that which is universal across all MY’s, the driving efficiency. This is the logical approach from my perspective..

For example, when it comes to preconditioning energy usage, I’m surprised more isn’t said about the benefits of charging just prior to departing. Pro tip, you can get rid of the regen dots (or many of them) by simply scheduling your charge so that it completes just prior to departure. Doing so can reduce/eliminate the need to precondition the battery, depending on ambient temps of course. I see many wanting to know how to only precondition the battery, this is how I do it with our MY and i3.. and the best part is that it doesn’t use any additional power since it’s simply a result of charging. Does everyone do/know this, or care about it for that matter, I doubt it... It would be super useful to see just how much heat is added to the pack by only charging from 40-60%, but my experience with doing so suggests that a noticeable amount of heat is produced, even when charging between 7-12kW only.

In other words, don’t assume that your overall energy consumption will be universal since there will always be a significant amount of variance that is dependent on several variables, many of which involve the operator and their approach, and/or the environmental conditions. So why bother evaluating for anything other than having for your own records? I don’t see the value of sharing this information as if it will always be the same no matter who the operator is, that will not be the case.
 
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P3dStealth

Active Member
Nov 12, 2019
1,205
1,476
USA
The cost savings don't work out for me either. I don't save any money owning the model 3. My electric cost about what gas cost maybe more. I pay about $.21 a kwh when you factor in delivery fees and my insurance is higher. So in reality the Tesla cost me more to drive than my truck did. In winter the 3 eats electric just sitting on my driveway.

I am sure for some people it works out but in the northeast winter its not great. I like driving it though.
 
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Twiglett

Single pedal driver
Oct 3, 2014
3,694
4,181
Austin
I think this is the big "problem" that many EVs have. They enable the use of vast amounts of data that can be used to provide incredibly detailed stats and costings.
In an ICE world almost everything is guesswork, reset the trip every fill up is about it with the resolution of a tank of gas.
With the EV, now we can see how much it costs to sit in a parking lot with the AC running, we can see how much power the car uses overnight keeping the battery at the right temperature and managing itself. We can directly see the difference between longer, flatter routes compared to shorter, hilly routes.
Even worse, now we can see the energy cost of using Sentry mode or Dog mode :D

At first I really dug into just how much it cost to move around, now after 70k of electric miles (and a car with a decent sized battery) I worry much less about it :cool:

Not saying its bad or good, just different. All these stats allow you to be much more proactive - or not.....
 
The Price Of Electricity In Your State.

This article is now 10 years old so take it with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a wild range in the cost of electricity across the country, from 8 cents per KWH in Idaho to 33 cents in Hawaii. Leaving Hawaii out for the time being as an outlier, NY is the next most expensive state at 18 cents. If I lived in Idaho, you would have a hard time convincing me that my electric car is just as expensive as my ICE.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
8,353
10,749
Boise, ID
The Price Of Electricity In Your State.

This article is now 10 years old so take it with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a wild range in the cost of electricity across the country, from 8 cents per KWH in Idaho to 33 cents in Hawaii. Leaving Hawaii out for the time being as an outlier, NY is the next most expensive state at 18 cents. If I lived in Idaho, you would have a hard time convincing me that my electric car is just as expensive as my ICE.
[waving giant foam finger]
WE'RE #1 WE'RE #1 WE'RE #1!!!!

Mr. Giant Foam Finger Maker commercial:
 
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The Price Of Electricity In Your State.

This article is now 10 years old so take it with a grain of salt, but there seems to be a wild range in the cost of electricity across the country, from 8 cents per KWH in Idaho to 33 cents in Hawaii. Leaving Hawaii out for the time being as an outlier, NY is the next most expensive state at 18 cents. If I lived in Idaho, you would have a hard time convincing me that my electric car is just as expensive as my ICE.

mare you factoring in the initial purchase price of a Model Y vs a Toyota RAV4? Gas isn’t a huge part of the puzzle right now with his cheap it has been.
 
State Gas Price Averages - AAA Gas Prices

Gas also varies widely by state. Mississippi is $2.09 a gallon while California is $3.36 a gallon. I live in PA where it's $2.85 right now in my area. We are one of the 5 most expensive states for gas. I've been tracking my costs between my Tesla and my Lincoln MKX for about 6 months right now and its not close. My MKX gets about 16 MPG and my inspection just cost me $485 for emissions, brakes, and two back tires. I realize there are a lot of parts to the comparison, but I also think the two cars I have in the garage are very low operating cost (Tesla) and very high operating cost (Lincoln). Additionally, I live in a state with a very high cost of gas and a relatively low cost of Electric (I average 9.8 per KWH over the span of year due to my time of use program available in the summer) and I'm pretty happy with my Tesla.
 

meh_

Member
Oct 26, 2020
108
64
NJ
I'll add my 2c here. For the first month of my ownership, I was plugging in most nights with the charge limit at 80% and then I'd wake up, turn on climate control and then walk out to the car to go get a coffee or run an errand (not commute to work). Sometimes I would drag my feet and I would have it warm up for 10,15, 20 min. I loved that it was always warm and that the regen braking was at full power - and then I got my electric bill and was shocked. I quickly realized that using my car a 5000 lb space heater was not ideal.
 
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I just compare what I spent per month on my previous vehicle, a BMW that got about 21 mpg at best on premium fuel, and what I spend per month on "filling" my Y. Both have about the same range on a fill-up (the Beemer was wildly optimistic when it told me how many miles I could drive after filling the tank). I figure that takes into account heating it up before I drive, vampire drain, etc., and it costs me about 1/4 as much with the Y. Gas prices are starting to rise so the Y will look even better in comparison.
 

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