Had UHFS in my first S and skipped it for the second one. Went for aftermarket upgrade instead (Light Harmonic). Standard audio in the S is really bad, and UHFS is not much better (and certainly not worth the price) - not on par with the Mark Levinson I had in my Lexus, or the HK in my wife's Mini. Heck, one of the most frustrating things of sitting in a new Hyundai Ioniq EV the other day was noticing how good the standard (Infinity) Hi-Fi of Hyundai was compared to Tesla's setup!
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High Fidelity sound system new Model S - worth it?
- Thread starter cybergates
- Start date
ahurst
Member
Do you like to do after-market upgrades on your cars?
If not, get UHFS.
If so, get basic sound and upgrade.
If not, get UHFS.
If so, get basic sound and upgrade.
@cybergates - FWIW I am also a home theater nut. I have a full on dedicated room with a 176" cinemascope screen, a huge 4K Sony projector, etc. etc. I've been in that hobby for years. So here is some of the wisdom I have learned from the HT crowd - audio is full of pseudoscientific nonsense BS. The HT hobby is necessarily expensive because of all the gear involved, so hobbyists have learned over the years to find maximum value for the dollar.
Study after study shows that so called golden ear audiophiles do not know what the heck they are talking about. Blind tests show human beings cannot distinguish signals carried by coat hanger wire vs $100 per foot speaker cable. $500 receivers are indistinguishable from $10K amplifiers when played within the limits of their power output. Etc. etc. etc.
There is HUGE confirmation bias in audio. The problem - with all due respect - to folks on this thread saying Tesla's no-name UHFS is not as good as brand XYZ in some other car is that there is no scientific way to know if they are correct if they *believe* they are correct because of a high profile name attached to a very expensive luxury car like a Lexus.
The only way to know what people really prefer would be if you could blindfold them, put identical physical seats in a Lexus with Mark Levinson, for example and a Tesla. Then play identical music at identical volume levels.
Short of that there is no way to know. What you *can* do is at least some basic attempt to equalize things. Play identical volume music, test for distortion, etc. Run a frequency response test signal using a microphone hooked up to a laptop. Yada yada.
What I personally am convinced of is that there is far less difference than people want to believe between audio systems.
If there is some actual data out there on frequency response and distortion levels at given volumes of Tesla's system vs others then I'd love to see it. Also one thing to keep in mind is that it's possible Tesla's system has been improving over the years - some of us believe that is the case.
Study after study shows that so called golden ear audiophiles do not know what the heck they are talking about. Blind tests show human beings cannot distinguish signals carried by coat hanger wire vs $100 per foot speaker cable. $500 receivers are indistinguishable from $10K amplifiers when played within the limits of their power output. Etc. etc. etc.
There is HUGE confirmation bias in audio. The problem - with all due respect - to folks on this thread saying Tesla's no-name UHFS is not as good as brand XYZ in some other car is that there is no scientific way to know if they are correct if they *believe* they are correct because of a high profile name attached to a very expensive luxury car like a Lexus.
The only way to know what people really prefer would be if you could blindfold them, put identical physical seats in a Lexus with Mark Levinson, for example and a Tesla. Then play identical music at identical volume levels.
Short of that there is no way to know. What you *can* do is at least some basic attempt to equalize things. Play identical volume music, test for distortion, etc. Run a frequency response test signal using a microphone hooked up to a laptop. Yada yada.
What I personally am convinced of is that there is far less difference than people want to believe between audio systems.
If there is some actual data out there on frequency response and distortion levels at given volumes of Tesla's system vs others then I'd love to see it. Also one thing to keep in mind is that it's possible Tesla's system has been improving over the years - some of us believe that is the case.
You see this audio nonsense also manifest itself in descriptions of speakers and amplifiers. Long flowery paragraphs written with meaningless words like "warmth" "depth" "tightness" etc. Guys convinced one amplifier sounds different from another. Then you do the blind test and discover that nobody can distinguish one amp's sounds from another as long as it isn't clipping. Audiophiles are horrified by the idea of guys using "cheap" digital pro-audio amps in home theaters - but they can't tell one from another.
Digital room correction is something which matters and can make a large difference in sound quality - and I'm sure it's in use in car audio by now. It is possible of course that one car has a better tuned system than another car and thus has a much flatter frequency response, less interference, etc.
Digital room correction is something which matters and can make a large difference in sound quality - and I'm sure it's in use in car audio by now. It is possible of course that one car has a better tuned system than another car and thus has a much flatter frequency response, less interference, etc.
@cybergates - I'm not a car audio guy so I don't know if what I am about to say is true - but it is this: I would assume that very sophisticated room correction algorithms and digital equalizers are available for car audio head units by now. So that could be one advantage of going aftermarket - you can get a high quality head unit and tweak it (or hire an acoustician) until you have the frequency response and sound stage you desire. With the factory UHFS audio system you are pretty much stuck with what it gives you. You can move the little graphic equalizer bars around but that isn't precise. For precision these days you get a mic and a laptop to measure frequency response, and hook it to a dedicated equalizer which can tune the curve in very small increments. Then measure the results, tweak again, etc. etc.
It has been for a while. Waaaay back in 2008 I installed a very nice aftermarket system in my car. It came with a computer link and a microphone so you could tune the speaker response to the interior of the vehicle. It was just like doing a home theater setup - you set the microphone on a tripod in each car seat, hooked it up to a laptop with the program and it took measurements. I loved that system because it was the only one where I could put the sound stage exactly where I wanted.
I like that the UHFS is very clean audio. It has a weird soundstage location, and its biased too much to treble for my tastes, but with the new equalizer, I have gotten a setup I am very pleased with for my FLAC files.
Overall I think @ahurst has it exactly right - if you are OK with aftermarket upgrades and are an audiophile, just save the $$ and do that. However, I would add the caveat that if you want XM, I think you have to go UHFS. I am not sure if the aftermarket systems let you add XM.
@Az_Rael - there is an article floating around on the internet somewhere that's an interview of the two guys who were hired to design the UHFS on the original 2012 car. An interesting read - they are European and specifically mentioned that American vs European taste in the soundstage location is different. Some things they liked was that they got to work with the car's designers to help make the interior conducive to good audio (I forget the details) - but they complained that the Model S development was "chaotic" and they got only two nights with the car to tune the final system before going to market. They were also planning to do the Model X sound, and said they got much more development time with it.
Light Harmonic is a vender on the boards here and I have no doubt they sell a decent upgrade kit. But they make my eyebrows raise because they also sell snake oil such as these USB cables: LightSpeed USB Cables - Light Harmonic
When you trust the same guys who sell magic cables to design your audio upgrade - well, I dunno...
When you trust the same guys who sell magic cables to design your audio upgrade - well, I dunno...
@cybergates - the premium package is too much money but I bought it anyway for one reason - the HEPA filter. Look up some studies on air pollution and disease - and then look up what scientists have estimated your lifetime exposure percentage is from driving. I read it's almost 50% even for people who drive only one hour per day, because the particulates are an order of magnitude more concentrated on roadways than away from roads. So you may think it is silly to filter air one hour per day when you live in a polluted area anyway - but you may be cutting your exposure to particulates by almost half. I read another piece yesterday which has found a statistically significant increase in dementia among older people who live near major roadways. Maybe it's nothing. Maybe not...
However, I have a Tesla with premium package and I am currently renting one without the premium package. The interior looks just as good on the non-premium package car. The vinyls Tesla uses are very high quality and look no "cheaper" than the same areas with leather. In fact I'd say the non-premium dashboard looks better than the premium one!
With that clue, I think I found the article (or a similar one): How Tesla developed the in-car audio system for the Model S saloon
Very cool! Probably true about the tastes in sound stage locations between us and Europeans. I like the sound stage to feel like its right at my ears or even a little behind them.
I hear you. That said, I upgraded my base system with the Light Harmonic speakers + NVX subwoofer. Dramatic difference. I can't say how it compares to the UHFS, but the sound is substantially than the base system.
Your system absolutely sounds like something is wrong. Unless you are going for hyperbole, there is no way I'd describe the system as an AM radio. Was just listening to some concert recordings on the way home and the Dolby was on point.
davidc18
Active Member
Get the upgraded sound. It is good enough even if it is crazily overpriced.
doctorwho
Active Member
They do make a decent upgrade, it isn't perfect but it has 3 things missing from the standard Tesla system, bass, treble and resolution. I think that the LH standard upgrade has far superior resolution to the Tesla UHFS. It's a lot cheaper too.
My experience is that there are times when I've swapped components in a system and have heard a sound difference, other times I've heard no difference. remember though you are never listening to a component, you are always listening to a complete system. Issues like component synergy and ultimate system resolution will be the major determinants over whether you can hear a difference. At the end of the day though it's your money, if you can't hear a difference then don't spend it
avesraggiana
Member
Maybe a little exaggerated, OK, but not by much. I switched between Dolby on/off and asked my wife which was better. I think her reply was something like "That's awful," and she's not nearly as picky as I am.
I think I'll head back to the showroom and see if I can compare UHFS to non, as well as trying some USB-sourced tunes.
Thanks, all. Didn't mean to hijack the thread.
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