Highway 401 Experience

[realtycoon]

This guy really doesn't like potholes!!! LMAO!!!

Reminds me of Steeles between Highway 48 and the York Durham Line

 

[mrElbe]

The signage of "Slower traffic keep right" is bad. Slow and fast is subjective in each drivers mind. The only signage should be" Keep right except to pass. Another problem with highways in Ontario is that the right lane quite often disappears into an exit. So trucks stay as left as they are allowed.

 

[racer26]

Germany has very strict driver training requirements before they get their licenses, which produce drivers with far superior skills than our run of the mill posers here in Canada.

This is often cited garbage. It is patently untrue. Ontario's roads are some of the safest anywhere on Earth.

Check out stop100.ca

The HOV lane is the left most lane. The correct speed to travel in the HOV lane is "faster than all cars to your right".

 

[noicepls]

The HOV lane is the left most lane. The correct speed to travel in the HOV lane is "faster than all cars to your right".

The HOV lane is NOT the left most lane. It is a distinct and separate lane for designated vehicles that include urban traffic of different capabilities (Teslas on the higher speed scale and smart cars on the slower end of the mix) all traveling in a single lane for a relatively short section. For the sake of safety, it is expected that drivers using the HOV lane not throw caution to the wind in terms of speeding - the controlled exit points are there because vehicles exiting the HOV lane are breaching the proper overtaking/fastest lane of the highway, i.e. the OTHER left most lane.

 

[racer26]

The HOV lane is NOT the left most lane. It is a distinct and separate lane for designated vehicles that include urban traffic of different capabilities (Teslas on the higher speed scale and smart cars on the slower end of the mix) all traveling in a single lane for a relatively short section. For the sake of safety, it is expected that drivers using the HOV lane not throw caution to the wind in terms of speeding - the controlled exit points are there because vehicles exiting the HOV lane are breaching the proper overtaking/fastest lane of the highway, i.e. the OTHER left most lane.

First of all, ALL vehicles using a 400-series highway *MUST* be capable of maintaining high speed - low speed limited vehicles are not welcome there.

Second, there is nothing that states vehicles of the proper class (high-occupancy, green, taxi, bus, etc) MUST use the HOV lane. Merely that they *may*. It *IS* the left most lane, and should only be used to move *faster* than all lanes to its right - indeed, that is its entire purpose, to give the selected classes priority over the jammed up traffic in the other lanes. By driving slower in the HOV lane than the other lanes are flowing, you encourage others who wish to use the HOV lane as intended to break the law and cross the hashed 'do not cross' lines to go around you, creating a traffic hazard. Even those that obey the law and only cross in the designated areas create a traffic hazard when they try to overtake you on the right in the limited space allotted for merging in and out of the HOV lane. By going slower than the other traffic, you violate other sections of the highway traffic act, which require that slower traffic keep to the rightmost practicable lane for the direction of travel, independent of what that speed is in relation to the speed limit and independent of any lane markings, HOV or otherwise.

 

[mknox]

Don't do the 130 kph thing outside of Toronto. Below 120 they ignore you pretty much everywhere.

I was in Ottawa last week for the EMC conference and it was quite noticeable how people keep to the speed limits in that area compared to the GTA.

The correct speed to travel in the HOV lane is "faster than all cars to your right".

Actually it's between the legal Minimum and Maximum for that roadway.

 

[racer26]

Actually it's between the legal Minimum and Maximum for that roadway.

Being between the minimum and maximum of the roadway does not absolve you of the requirement to keep to the rightmost practicable lane and not 'unnecessarily slow'

Unnecessary slow driving prohibited
132 (1) No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 132 (1).

Slow vehicles to travel on right side
147 (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).

Exception
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a driver of a,

(a) vehicle while overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

(b) vehicle while preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway;

(c) road service vehicle; or

(d) bicycle in a lane designated under subsection 153 (2) for travel in the opposite direction of traffic. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (2); 2015, c. 14, s. 41.

Vehicles or equestrians overtaken
148 (2) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the overtaking vehicle or equestrian to pass. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (2).

Note that none of those bear any connection to a minimum or maximum speed limit, only the 'normal speed of traffic', whatever that may be at the time, even if it is higher than the speed limit.

 

[noicepls]

First of all, ALL vehicles using a 400-series highway *MUST* be capable of maintaining high speed - low speed limited vehicles are not welcome there.

Second, there is nothing that states vehicles of the proper class (high-occupancy, green, taxi, bus, etc) MUST use the HOV lane. Merely that they *may*. It *IS* the left most lane, and should only be used to move *faster* than all lanes to its right - indeed, that is its entire purpose, to give the selected classes priority over the jammed up traffic in the other lanes. By driving slower in the HOV lane than the other lanes are flowing, you encourage others who wish to use the HOV lane as intended to break the law and cross the hashed 'do not cross' lines to go around you, creating a traffic hazard. Even those that obey the law and only cross in the designated areas create a traffic hazard when they try to overtake you on the right in the limited space allotted for merging in and out of the HOV lane. By going slower than the other traffic, you violate other sections of the highway traffic act, which require that slower traffic keep to the rightmost practicable lane for the direction of travel, independent of what that speed is in relation to the speed limit and independent of any lane markings, HOV or otherwise.

HUH?? Since when in this country did the law hold people responsible for others' actions? "Encouraging others to break the law"? Just crap. If you are that susceptible to others' lawful driving, just stay off the highway for safety's sake instead of being lured into "breaking the law" (your words). In the meantime, to help adjust and tone down that kind of attitude, voluntarily have a chat with your friendly police officer and familiarize yourself with Ontario's Aggressive Driving laws and your deficit in understanding the general rules of the road (particularly the fact that the HOV lane is not the fastest lane and is not meant for speeding or setting the speed of traffic flow) . The authorities love seeing dash cam clips of wayward idiots who think they are entitled to self-interpreted prioritised use of our highways.

 

[racer26]

HUH?? Since when in this country did the law hold people responsible for others' actions? "Encouraging others to break the law"? Just crap. If you are that susceptible to others' lawful driving, just stay off the highway for safety's sake instead of being lured into "breaking the law" (your words). In the meantime, to help adjust and tone down that kind of attitude, voluntarily have a chat with your friendly police officer and familiarize yourself with Ontario's Aggressive Driving laws and your deficit in understanding the general rules of the road (particularly the fact that the HOV lane is not the fastest lane and is not meant for speeding or setting the speed of traffic flow) . The authorities love seeing dash cam clips of wayward idiots who think they are entitled to self-interpreted prioritised use of our highways.

I literally just cited three different sections of the highway traffic act which explicitly make slow driving in anything but the rightmost lane available and failing to turn out to the right to allow an overtaking vehicle to pass unlawful. Keeping right except to pass *is* one of the rules of the road, and your misinformed idea of what the HOV lane is (the leftmost lane) doesn't change what the highway traffic act says.

I never said that *I* aggressively swing round slow HOV lane drivers - I usually just stay out of the HOV lane because they ruin its utility.

What I said is that impeding the flow of traffic by failing to turn out to the right to allow faster traffic to overtake you is one of the #1 things that creates dangerous situations. You are correct, in that the law does not make the dangerous situation the fault of the slow driver, but rather the driver aggressively maneuvering around them - but that doesn't mean that they aren't causing it by themselves not following the rules of the road.

Note: For what its worth - the word 'aggressive' does not appear in the Highway Traffic Act.

 

[mknox]

Being between the minimum and maximum of the roadway does not absolve you of the requirement to keep to the rightmost practicable lane and not 'unnecessarily slow'

I absolutely agree and always stay to the right regardless. And by the right I mean the right... not the center passing lanes either.

Note that none of those bear any connection to a minimum or maximum speed limit, only the 'normal speed of traffic', whatever that may be at the time, even if it is higher than the speed limit.

But remember the average speed of traffic by very definition includes ALL traffic including transport trucks, cars towing trailers etc. Not just the passenger cars exclusively. My guess is that all-in, the average speed is probably very close to the speed limit if not a bit below.

 

[racer26]

But remember the average speed of traffic by very definition includes ALL traffic including transport trucks, cars towing trailers etc. Not just the passenger cars exclusively. My guess is that all-in, the average speed is probably very close to the speed limit if not a bit below.

Occasionally I would agree, but most of the time I would hazard the average speed of all vehicles on 400series when not in bumper-to-bumper is north of 120.

I'm sure MTO has the actual data on that though.

I'm not super familiar if there is any case law on what the courts would interpret as the 'normal' speed of traffic at the time and circumstances, whether that would be the 'average' speed or not for the purposes of those laws. They're so rarely ticketed (presumably because its much easier to ticket the speeder and prove beyond doubt they were speeding) I doubt there is much case law.

 

[M109Rider]

To reduce congestion, road rage, and ultimately keep the roads safer (Safer in my opinion), the rule is very simple.

“Slower Traffic Keep Right”.
Regardless of speed, or lane.

Unfortunately, so few drivers follow it.

 

[mknox]

Occasionally I would agree, but most of the time I would hazard the average speed of all vehicles on 400series when not in bumper-to-bumper is north of 120.

Before I retired, I did a LOT of 401 driving mainly between the GTA and the Waterloo Region, but frequently as far as London. If I had the cruise set to 120 km/h, I was always passing transport trucks, and lots of them. Some cars too. If I had it set to 100 km/h (in the right lane, of course) I would frequently have to pass transport trucks. Certainly not scientific, but just my casual observations.

 

[racer26]

Before I retired, I did a LOT of 401 driving mainly between the GTA and the Waterloo Region, but frequently as far as London. If I had the cruise set to 120 km/h, I was always passing transport trucks, and lots of them. Some cars too. If I had it set to 100 km/h (in the right lane, of course) I would frequently have to pass transport trucks. Certainly not scientific, but just my casual observations.

Perhaps varies by region - my most travelled routes are 404 between Keswick and Toronto, 401 between Toronto and Cobourg, and 400/11 between Toronto and Orillia, and I rarely use cruise control. I do often catch myself going far quicker than intended just moving with traffic, though.

Transports trucks operated in Ontario are supposed to have a 105km/h governor so that would make a certain amount of sense to them being slower on average. I'm unconvinced many of them actually do since I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've found one going considerably faster than that.

 

[mknox]

Transports trucks operated in Ontario are supposed to have a 105km/h governor so that would make a certain amount of sense to them being slower on average. I'm unconvinced many of them actually do since I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've found one going considerably faster than that.

I think you're right. The day after that requirement came into effect, the results were incredibly apparent. However, over time, trucks seem to be going faster and faster once again. You would think there would be some sort of anti-tampering requirement and that they would be subject to periodic audit.

 

[Drone Flyer]

Trucks should be banned from the freeways between 6 am and Midnight!

 

[Pescakl1]

Trucks should be banned from the freeways between 6 am and Midnight!

I hope you do your own gardening LOL.

Removing them during rush hours, yes, I would agree with you, as they have a hard time in stop and go traffic to follow the flow of traffic (having Tesla semi will help).

In Europe, except for perishable foods, they are not allowed on the roads during weekends and that helps a lot the traffic.

 

[mknox]

In Europe, except for perishable foods, they are not allowed on the roads during weekends and that helps a lot the traffic.

That was the case too here in Ontario, Canada... but many, many years ago.