Hill Control Lies! Rolled back and hit a car :(

[Joer293]

The hill hold, at least in my classic S, only is intended to work from the time you take your foot off the brake until the time you press the accelerator. This should only take a second or two. If you take your foot off the brake and then leave it for 3-4 seconds, it will release and you will roll backwards. That is how it functions in my car.

I've been surprised by that as well. Release the brake at a stop light turned green, pedestrian jumps in front of the car jaywalking, not looking for cars. You don't hit the accelerator, until they pass, and the car rolled back a couple feet.

 

[Cyclone]

It's not inconsistent, at least in my AP S. MY pre-AP S was also very consistent in terms of hill-hold, but it is important to note that the "hold" function is completely different pre-and post AP.

Pre-AP: Hill Hold - holds the brake for a couple of seconds to allow your foot to toggle from the brake to the accelerator
Post AP: Brake Hold - holds the brake indefinitely with an extra 'squeeze' of the brake pedal. Released by touching the accelerator.

Sadly, my Class/Pre-AP is very inconsistent. That is why I wish we got the "idiot light" for Hill Hold on the classics. In at least three spots around Charlotte, NC, I have a 50/50 chance of hill hold engage at a dead stop. I've given up on expecting it to be there since it is so unpredictable for me.

 

[EVie'sDad]

Always confirm the H is displayed on the dash before releasing the brake, it alternates between holding and turning off hold depending on how many times you depress the brake pedal.

Sorry for your pain. Surely an expensive lesson to be learned, but understanding the in's and out's of the new technology is crucial to operating it safely.

 

[asdfasdf]

Always confirm the H is displayed on the dash before releasing the brake, it alternates between holding and turning off hold depending on how many times you depress the brake pedal.

Sorry for your pain. Surely an expensive lesson to be learned, but understanding the in's and out's of the new technology is crucial to operating it safely.

right -- i've had the car for several months and am super aware of how it works. i saw the H light on before i handed my trust over to the vehicle. looking forward to tesla's investigation.

 

[Spidy]

What the hell is wrong with you people? Is driving so strenuous that you have to remove your foot from a pedal?! When there are all of two of them?! You aren't riding a 20 year old stiff clutch for 30 miles in traffic. Knock it the hell off and take responsibility. If you don't want the car to move, hold... the... BRAKE...

One of the best features I ever had in a car was the Mercedes hold brake. Honestly if you ever get used to it you are going to miss it on every other car after that...

 

[asdfasdf]

Update - Repair estimate is $2,300 form Avio Coach Craft. Should hear from tesla re: logs tomorrow.

 

[Maaz]

Update - Repair estimate is $2,300 form Avio Coach Craft. Should hear from tesla re: logs tomorrow.

Sorry off topic, but were you at Redondo beach Charger yesterday in the day? Me and my wife noticed a 75D X with a popped out sensor and were wondering what happened?! Sorry just curious. Good luck to you and the repairs.

 

[eddiemoy]

pre ap cars hill hold is exactly 1 sec. once you lift your foot off the break, you have 1 sec to apply the pressure to the accelerator.

 

[Cyclone]

pre ap cars hill hold is exactly 1 sec. once you lift your foot off the break, you have 1 sec to apply the pressure to the accelerator.

I really wish that prior to releasing the brake pedal and during that one second (or heck, even just while holding the brakes), we would get the (H) idiot light!

 

[asdfasdf]

still don't get why anyone would ever want their car to roll back in any circumstance. that just should just be a raw software default that can be toggled: "Rollback: Off (Default)"

 

[Cyclone]

still don't get why anyone would ever want their car to roll back in any circumstance. that just should just be a raw software default that can be toggled: "Rollback: Off (Default)"

I regularly let my car roll slightly while parking. I'd live with it if it didn't do that anymore though. I like the option though.

 

[ccutrer]

Just a point of clarification (as @pete8314 already mentioned, but not quite with the correct terminology): on AP vehicles, it is called Vehicle Hold, and will hold the vehicle indefinitely, backwards or forwards. It is activated by a little extra pressure on the brake when you stop, and is deactivated by another press on the brake (which the dashboard helpfully tells you about after you've been sitting in it for a few seconds), or by pressing the accelerator. The dashboard will show a (H) indicator whenever it is activated. On pre-AP vehicles (or maybe a little earlier? I'm not sure of the exact timeline) it's called Hill Hold Assist, and is activated when you come to a stop on what the car detects as a hill, and only works for a few seconds at best (afaik, they can't give the newer behavior because it requires a digital brake controller or something that older cars don't have). I don't have enough experience with older cars (just one day of a loaner) to know if the dashboard indicates when it's active, but from the other posts in this thread, it sounds like not.

As for improving it - it does sound reasonable that when the car is in gear, that Vehicle Hold automatically activate to prevent the car from rolling in the opposite direction. I could see a stutter situation where you're waiting on an uphill light, the car in front of you takes of their brakes, but realizes that light didn't actually turn green, but you lightly tap your accelerator in anticipation. You suddenly have to go quickly back to the brake pedal in order to avoid rolling backwards. Another situation I run into fairly regularly is backing up to hook up a trailer. My driveway slopes gently downhill away from the house, but backing up I have to be very very gentle to line up the hitch with the trailer. If automatic-reverse-direction-hold were a feature, I wouldn't have to use two feet to quickly stop the car from rolling forward after lining up the hitch (and I certainly don't want to over-do it backing up in anticipation of a slight roll forward - then I'm banging the trailer into the hitch). They should probably still allow a deep press (maybe extra extra deep) on the brake pedal to intentionally release vehicle hold, for parking situations.

 

[ccutrer]

I should add that Vehicle Hold is one of my favorite features of the X (right up there with AP, the windshield, instant torque, automatic doors, etc.). When leaving my subdivision, I sit at the bottom of a fairly steep downhill, waiting to turn onto a busy 5 lane (2 lanes each direction, plus center turning lane) road. Using Vehicle Hold, I can hover over the accelerator, giving me a half second second more time to make the decision of if I can make it through a gap or not, since I don't have to remove my foot from the brake. With instant torque, I can make it across and into traffic much quicker. End result - I have to wait here for a much much shorter amount of time than almost anyone else. Other end result - I get really impatient having to wait behind other cars that have to wait for much larger gaps.

 

[Martin VanB]

I agree that a default setting to prevent roll back is a good idea. Today I noticed on a very slight grade in Toronto my vehicle started to roll back. Had I not noticed it, I too would have had some damage.

Coming from a regular car we are always fighting the engine and therefore even rarely would our vehicles roll backwards in an automatic transmission.

I wonder if turning creep on solves this ( prevents roll back) as well?

 

[Blastphemy]

I use Vehicle Hold all the time in my Model X, and it never rolls backwards, no matter how steep the incline. It also doesn't roll forward if I'm facing down a hill while stopped at a light. The car doesn't move until I either press the brake again, or press the accelerator. Don't know if it makes a difference, but I have Creep enabled, and I don't ever remember my car rolling back even without Vehicle Hold on.

 

[aesculus]

I use Vehicle Hold all the time in my Model X, and it never rolls backwards, no matter how steep the incline. It also doesn't roll forward if I'm facing down a hill while stopped at a light. The car doesn't move until I either press the brake again, or press the accelerator. Don't know if it makes a difference, but I have Creep enabled, and I don't ever remember my car rolling back even without Vehicle Hold on.

I agree but that little bit of backward motion when pointing uphill and pressing the accelerator to release is bothersome.

 

[asdfasdf]

2 weeks for the body shop to get the parts no AP or summon for 2 weeks

 

[HankLloydRight]

I agree but that little bit of backward motion when
pointing uphill and pressing the accelerator to release is bothersome.

I like it. Makes me feel like I'm driving my M5 again.

 

[beths11]

right -- i've had the car for several months and am super aware of how it works. i saw the H light on before i handed my trust over to the vehicle. looking forward to tesla's investigation.

Has Tesla looked at the logs and given you their evaluation of the cause yet?

 

[Amped-Up]

Aren't you describing riding the clutch? Which in case isn't good for the clutch.

No. It's coordination.